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VK7AX > SSTV 23.10.08 02:03l 793 Lines 26360 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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There are 22 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: cesco12342000
1b. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: Simon Brown (KNS)
1c. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: ve3wej gmail
1d. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: Simon Brown (KNS)
1e. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: jdow
1f. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: jdow
1g. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: Joe Ivey
1h. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: cesco12342000
1i. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: John L. Wilkerson Jr.
1j. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: Joe Ivey
1k. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: Martin
1l. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
From: Simon Brown (KNS)
2a. tx problems
From: g0jnqsteve
2b. Re: tx problems
From: ve3wej gmail
2c. Re: tx problems
From: cesco12342000
3a. Special Event
From: Wilfredo Aviles Jr / KP4ARN
3b. Re: Special Event
From: kevin knights
4a. New Station Advice
From: davemynatt
4b. Re: New Station Advice
From: Bob
4c. Re: New Station Advice
From: Simon Brown (KNS)
4d. Re: New Station Advice
From: MICHAEL BROWN
4e. Re: New Station Advice
From: michael tenore
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "cesco12342000" cesco1(AT)tiscali.ch cesco12342000
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 11:54 am ((PDT))
> > Nowadays is quiet usual to see many people transmitting with terrible
> > slant pictures with no problems with this, and I have to
I think the problem is that many people still use the default 11025 sample
rate in mmsstv. Modern cheapo soundcards cant do that accurately, and
worse, rx and tx samplerates will also be different.
There is an easy cure for this ... go to the mmsstv setup misc tab and set
samplerate to 12000. This way i'm within 1.7 hz accuracy.
(obviously all 11025 stations will be slanted then ... but stations with
good timing will be perfect.)
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "Simon Brown (KNS)" simon.brown(AT)kns.ch simonbrown42
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 12:02 pm ((PDT))
----- Original Message -----
From: "cesco12342000" <cesco1(AT)tiscali.ch>
> >
> > I think the problem is that many people still use the default 11025 sample
> > rate in mmsstv. Modern cheapo soundcards cant do that accurately, and
> > worse, rx and tx samplerates will also be different.
> >
Cesco, some months ago I found an explanation for this problem on a
Microsoft Developer Blog - it's actually to do with a driver in Windows 2K /
XP. The guy explained why it's so bad and why it's fixed with VISTA. I tried
to find it last week and failed :-(
Essentially if the soundcard driver doesn't convert from the native sampling
rate the Windows has to do it, with 2K / XP there's either a bug or
something...
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "ve3wej gmail" ve3wej(AT)gmail.com ve3wej
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:28 pm ((PDT))
I dont know why no one mentioned this, but if you go into the sync tab, and
get a known straight image, then you can hit the smiley face, and mem to
correct you receive. this does NOT guarantee your transmit is ok, but
sending a image to another known straight on receive can do the sync check
and tell you what to adjust by. that gets entered into the setup screen.
at least that is how mmsstv does it....
VE3WEJ
Dave Garber
10-X # 23465
echolink # 52852
irlp node 2202
email ve3wej(AT)rac.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rui Manuel" <ct1qk01(AT)gmail.com>
To: <MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: [MM-SSTV] DM780 Picture Slant
> > Hello
> >
> > I have a question to the group
> > I am using mmsstv for a long time, and I always have calibrated my
> > soundcards with wwv with no problems.
> > However now, I am receiving the pictures made by Dm780 always with a
> > small slant to the right. My friends tell me that they have calibrated
> > the cards with the internet option, on the program, from a clock site.
> > I don't know where the problem is.
> > Nowadays is quiet usual to see many people transmitting with terrible
> > slant pictures with no problems with this, and I have to
> > systematically correct the slant of the pictures to know who is
> > sending them.
> > Maybe this is a new way of working SSTV.
> >
> > Any tips on this?
> >
> > Rui,CT1QK
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "Simon Brown (KNS)" simon.brown(AT)kns.ch simonbrown42
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:31 pm ((PDT))
In DM780 I show the corrected RX frequency when adjusting for slant - so
that same logic applies (almost).
And then a loopback for sort out the same idea for TX.
IMO a bit of slant's fine - soundcard clocks can wander as the shack heats
up. It's the guys who don't calibrate ever or send digs & beeps and break up
the pictures who should be helped.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "ve3wej gmail" <ve3wej(AT)gmail.com>
> >I dont know why no one mentioned this, but if you go into the sync tab, and
> > get a known straight image, then you can hit the smiley face, and mem to
> > correct you receive. this does NOT guarantee your transmit is ok, but
> > sending a image to another known straight on receive can do the sync check
> > and tell you what to adjust by. that gets entered into the setup screen.
> >
> > at least that is how mmsstv does it....
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "jdow" jdow(AT)earthlink.net ferdyfubar
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:31 pm ((PDT))
From: "Simon Brown (KNS)" <simon.brown(AT)kns.ch>
Sent: Tuesday, 2008, October 07 07:19
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jdow" <jdow(AT)earthlink.net>
>> >>
>> >> They are off. Time over the internet is not accurate enough for a good
>> >> slant adjustment.
>> >>
> >
> > Depends on how you implement it.
> >
> > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
> > www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
There is a way that is precise enough that NIST has floating around for
synchronizing telescopes and the like. The standard techniques, including
telephone techniques these "ATM" and "IP" days, are not all that accurate
having a significant wander to them, particularly with some CPUs and with
Windows. (Windows has no way to synchronize the system clock with a fine
tuning of the clock quanta. Therefore it saw-tooths its way through the
day at about 10ms per five seconds on one machine I have.) NTP type
synchronization will leave visible slant. I've found a good calibration
requires pulling the WWV window out as big as you can fit on the screen
and then letting it run for about 20 minutes or until you have a nice
continuous run vertically. Then tick the points. With that trick I get
calibrations that agree nicely with other instrumentation techniques I
have.
{^_^} Joanne, W6MKU
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "jdow" jdow(AT)earthlink.net ferdyfubar
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:43 pm ((PDT))
From: "cesco12342000" <cesco1(AT)tiscali.ch>
Sent: Tuesday, 2008, October 07 09:47
>> >> Nowadays is quiet usual to see many people transmitting with terrible
>> >> slant pictures with no problems with this, and I have to
> >
> > I think the problem is that many people still use the default 11025 sample
> > rate in mmsstv. Modern cheapo soundcards cant do that accurately, and
> > worse, rx and tx samplerates will also be different.
> >
> > There is an easy cure for this ... go to the mmsstv setup misc tab and set
> > samplerate to 12000. This way i'm within 1.7 hz accuracy.
> >
> > (obviously all 11025 stations will be slanted then ... but stations with
> > good timing will be perfect.)
That's a good point, Cesco. The typical on board sound card for a laptop
or a sound card in a desk top use AC97 contemptible (sic) chips which are
48kbps. Depending on the chip involved the conversion to 44.1 kbps ranges
from fair to miserable. (That was part of the intent of picking 44.1 kbps
when good resampling was considered to be 48 kbps.) Really good techniques
exist, as the "sox" package suggests. Fair techniques simply resample
with interpolation. Bad techniques simply sub sample and throw away
samples as needed. Really bad techniques figure 1% accuracy is good
enough when they subsample.
Use 12 kbps, 16 kbps, 24 kbps, or 48 kbps. I notice an improvement in
performance even on my Turtle Beach card when I use 48 kbps or an
integer division of 48 kbps.
(Now, I also have a "thing" about Creative boards. But maybe they have
learned how to write software and drivers in the years since installing
their software on an NT based (W2K) system rather than 98 or ME when
those existed. We had to boot to a repair console and remove their
drivers from there to get the system to boot.)
{^_^} Joanne, W6MKU
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1g. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "Joe Ivey" jivey0218(AT)charter.net josephivey2002
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 2:09 pm ((PDT))
The real problem is the misunderstanding of the auto slant. The auto slant
only works on the received image and does not calibrate the sound card. I
have operated SSTV over 10 years and have never found 2 sound cards that are
the same. They maybe close but not the same. I believe that the auto slant
should not have been an option. Then everyone would have to calibrate their
sound card. There was some earlier SSTV programs that would allow transmit
until the sound card had been calibrated.
I have gotten away from operating SSTV very much simply because some do not
know how to operate. Some will just key up and start sending right in the
middle of another station sending. Another reason is some just do not
believe they are sending a slanted picture and refuse help.
My two cents worth.
Joe, W4JSI
From: MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com [mailto:MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jdow
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:31 PM
To: MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MM-SSTV] DM780 Picture Slant
From: "Simon Brown (KNS)" <simon.brown(AT)kns.ch <mailto:simon.brown%40kns.ch>
> >
Sent: Tuesday, 2008, October 07 07:19
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jdow" <jdow(AT)earthlink.net <mailto:jdow%40earthlink.net> >
>> >>
>> >> They are off. Time over the internet is not accurate enough for a good
>> >> slant adjustment.
>> >>
> >
> > Depends on how you implement it.
> >
> > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
> > www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
There is a way that is precise enough that NIST has floating around for
synchronizing telescopes and the like. The standard techniques, including
telephone techniques these "ATM" and "IP" days, are not all that accurate
having a significant wander to them, particularly with some CPUs and with
Windows. (Windows has no way to synchronize the system clock with a fine
tuning of the clock quanta. Therefore it saw-tooths its way through the
day at about 10ms per five seconds on one machine I have.) NTP type
synchronization will leave visible slant. I've found a good calibration
requires pulling the WWV window out as big as you can fit on the screen
and then letting it run for about 20 minutes or until you have a nice
continuous run vertically. Then tick the points. With that trick I get
calibrations that agree nicely with other instrumentation techniques I
have.
{^_^} Joanne, W6MKU
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1h. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "cesco12342000" cesco1(AT)tiscali.ch cesco12342000
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 2:41 pm ((PDT))
> > it's actually to do with a driver in Windows 2K / XP.
I know.
> > Essentially if the soundcard driver doesn't convert from the
> > native sampling
> > rate the Windows has to do it, with 2K / XP there's either a bug or
> > something...
It's even worse. It will sometimes convert, sometimes not. Depends on what
sample rate was used before and if there are multiple programs using the
same soundcard.
You can even provoke the driver to switch samplerate/conversion in the
middle of a picture ... that's why i prefer 48k sample rate. 48k does
prevent the driver from messing up things.
It will be hard to convince people not to use 11025 .. What happens is
that dm780 or mmsstv on 12k/48k rate is absolutely correct with the
timing, but people insist it's wrong because their 11025 based reference
is wrong.
They go to calibrate their 11025 in some way, not knowing that rx and tx
rates are different (the driver resampling) ... and end up tx'ing
terribly slanted pictures absolutely convinced they are spot-on.
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1i. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "John L. Wilkerson Jr." jlwilkers(AT)sbcglobal.net kd8dvr
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:37 pm ((PDT))
Joe Ivey wrote:
> > I believe that the auto slant
> > should not have been an option. Then everyone would have to calibrate their
> > sound card. There was some earlier SSTV programs that would allow transmit
> > until the sound card had been calibrated.
> >
> >
> >
The problem is... HOW *do* you calibrate the sound card??? Without a
reference signal you are lost.
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1j. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "Joe Ivey" jivey0218(AT)charter.net josephivey2002
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 7:06 pm ((PDT))
John,
That can be hard I admit, you would need to get with someone that does have
a
good calibrated sound card and go from there. Some do not read the help
files and
see the auto slant and think that it corrects both transmit and receive.
Some also think
when they calibrate the receive that the transmit is also calibrated which
is not true.
Joe, W4JSI
From: MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com [mailto:MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 5:39 PM
To: MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MM-SSTV] DM780 Picture Slant
Joe Ivey wrote:
> > I believe that the auto slant
> > should not have been an option. Then everyone would have to calibrate
their
> > sound card. There was some earlier SSTV programs that would allow transmit
> > until the sound card had been calibrated.
> >
> >
> >
The problem is... HOW *do* you calibrate the sound card??? Without a
reference signal you are lost.
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1k. Re: DM780 Picture Slant
Posted by: "Martin" kb0hae(AT)mchsi.com kb0hae1
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 9:34 pm ((PDT))
Hi Guys. I haven't had to recalibrate my sound card in MMSSTV
for a long time, but there is a way to do it using WWV or another
time signal. Time stations are usually very stable, as they are
also used as frequency standards by various commercial and
Government groups. Other SSTV programs may have a way to do this
calibration as well. What you are really doing is to measure
your sound card against a known stable signal, and if necessary a
correction factor will be applied.
I don'r remember it being dificult, but I don't remember exactly
where in the program that the calibrations is done. I suppose
you could always read the instructions...
TTYL
John L. Wilkerson Jr. wrote:
> > Joe Ivey wrote:
> >
> >
> > The problem is... HOW *do* you calibrate the sound card??? Without a
> > reference signal you are lost.
> >
-- CUL8R KBOHAE kb0hae(AT)mchsi.com Martin Campbell
A Satisfied Sidux Linux user!
To get Sidux go to: www.sidux.com/index.html
If electricity comes from electrons does that mean morality comes from morons?
Speaking of Morons...Rush Limbaugh...toxic byproduct of the First Amendment.
"Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM,
learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm"
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1l. Re: DM780 Picture Slant Posted by: "Simon Brown (KNS)"
simon.brown(AT)kns.ch simonbrown42 Date: Wed Oct 8, 2008 12:20 am ((PDT))
Myself I have no problem with someone not calibrating 100% -
getting within 99% is fine by me as decent receiving software will adjust
for slant just as a FM receiver will track a signal or a good satellite
operator will use Doppler correction. Simon Brown,
HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
----- Original Message -----
> > Time stations are usually very stable, as they are
> > also used as frequency standards by various commercial and
> > Government groups.
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. tx problems
Posted by: "g0jnqsteve" g0jnqsteve(AT)yahoo.co.uk g0jnqsteve
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 2:41 pm ((PDT))
can anyone help i've got mmsstv version 1.11g,got a digimaster comport
connected to an ft920. I can rx no problem i can tx but only at a very
low level. I've got everything up at the max on the sound card and the
920, but rx-ing on a seperate rx & pc the signal appears very weak and
on the 920 there's very little output, the 920 works fine on ssb etc.
I've been into the setup page on mmsstv and played with just about
everthing but to no avail. Any suggestions anybody.
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: tx problems
Posted by: "ve3wej gmail" ve3wej(AT)gmail.com ve3wej
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 4:39 pm ((PDT))
even with the sound card up full volume, you must still increase the gain
control of the rig, that you will have to read the manual of the radio , if
it is new to you.
VE3WEJ
Dave Garber
10-X # 23465
echolink # 52852
irlp node 2202
email ve3wej(AT)rac.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "g0jnqsteve" <g0jnqsteve(AT)yahoo.co.uk>
To: <MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: [MM-SSTV] tx problems
> > can anyone help i've got mmsstv version 1.11g,got a digimaster comport
> > connected to an ft920. I can rx no problem i can tx but only at a very
> > low level. I've got everything up at the max on the sound card and the
> > 920, but rx-ing on a seperate rx & pc the signal appears very weak and
> > on the 920 there's very little output, the 920 works fine on ssb etc.
> > I've been into the setup page on mmsstv and played with just about
> > everthing but to no avail. Any suggestions anybody.
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: tx problems
Posted by: "cesco12342000" cesco1(AT)tiscali.ch cesco12342000
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:37 pm ((PDT))
> > Any suggestions anybody.
Read that:
http://www.sagebrush.com/mixtech.htm
btw:
why does this group take 6 hrs for my posts to show up?
other groups dont have this problem.
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Special Event
Posted by: "Wilfredo Aviles Jr / KP4ARN" wavilesjr(AT)yahoo.com wavilesjr
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:37 pm ((PDT))
In November 23, 2008 the Arecibo Observatory celebrate the 45 Anniversary
with Amateur Special Event.
During 12 hours many amateur radio operator have the opportunity to TX in
20mts SSB in the radio control room.
So I have only 1 hour to TX in SSTV during the event.
The Special Call KP4AO
Remember , is the first time than amateur operator tx from Arecibo
Observatory in SSTV.
73' Wilfredo "Junior" Aviles / KP4ARN
Amateur Radio is the best way to know People and Travel around the World, FREE
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Special Event
Posted by: "kevin knights" knightskevin(AT)yahoo.co.uk knightskevin
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 10:50 pm ((PDT))
hi wilfredo KP4ARN
WHAT TIME AND FRQ WILL YOU BE ON WE WILL TRY FOR YOU PLEASE LET US KNOW
From kevin G7VNP UK
Wilfredo Aviles Jr / KP4ARN <wavilesjr(AT)yahoo.com> wrote:
In November 23, 2008 the Arecibo Observatory celebrate the 45
Anniversary with Amateur Special Event.
During 12 hours many amateur radio operator have the opportunity to TX
in 20mts SSB in the radio control room.
So I have only 1 hour to TX in SSTV during the event.
The Special Call KP4AO
Remember , is the first time than amateur operator tx from Arecibo
Observatory in SSTV.
73' Wilfredo "Junior" Aviles / KP4ARN
Amateur Radio is the best way to know People and Travel around the World, FREE
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. New Station Advice
Posted by: "davemynatt" dave(AT)mynatt.biz davemynatt
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:38 pm ((PDT))
I'm looking for advice on setting up a SSTV system and need suggestions
on antenna through software. I have several radios but am thinking of
using my ICOM 720A as a dedicated transceiver, along with a 1.5Ghz PC
running WINXP and MMSSTV software. Would an external sound card be a
better investment than the internal sound card that came with the PC?
Appreciate any advice! 73, Dave/Pueblo, CO
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4b. Re: New Station Advice
Posted by: "Bob" blockhead1959(AT)yahoo.com blockhead1959
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 8:23 pm ((PDT))
The sound card in the PC will be just fine.
I use a M8 Rigblaster with my FT 920.
I plugged the interface into the mike jack.
If you use a different interface, make sure you can also
use the mike.
Make sure the mike is not hot when transmitting.
MMSSTV is a great program. Be sure you are familar with the program.
Make sure your slant adjustment is correct, too many are slanted.
As for the antenna, I use a vertical and a beam.
Use what ever you can.
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: New Station Advice
Posted by: "Simon Brown (KNS)" simon.brown(AT)kns.ch simonbrown42
Date: Wed Oct 8, 2008 12:17 am ((PDT))
----- Original Message -----
From: "davemynatt" <dave(AT)mynatt.biz>
> > Would an external sound card be a
> > better investment than the internal sound card that came with the PC?
Please use a second soundcard - many SSTV users don't realise that when they
use the internal soundcard any beeps and dings from Windows are also sent
out through the same soundcard and break up the transmission (unless all
Windows sound effects are switched off).
A $50 USB external card would be an investment which you can use for many
years to come.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4d. Re: New Station Advice
Posted by: "MICHAEL BROWN" keysersoze2973(AT)yahoo.com keysersoze2973
Date: Wed Oct 8, 2008 4:23 am ((PDT))
Dear Dave
I started with MMSSTV and I used my internal sound card soon after I
downloaded MixW and bought a rigblaster nomic and never had problems
since over 1000 contacts on Digi mode.
73's
--- On Tue, 10/7/08, davemynatt <dave(AT)mynatt.biz> wrote:
From: davemynatt <dave(AT)mynatt.biz>
Subject: [MM-SSTV] New Station Advice
To: MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 7:47 PM
I'm looking for advice on setting up a SSTV system and need suggestions
on antenna through software. I have several radios but am thinking of
using my ICOM 720A as a dedicated transceiver, along with a 1.5Ghz PC
running WINXP and MMSSTV software. Would an external sound card be a
better investment than the internal sound card that came with the PC?
Appreciate any advice! 73, Dave/Pueblo, CO
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4e. Re: New Station Advice
Posted by: "michael tenore" wb2lcw(AT)yahoo.com wb2lcw
Date: Wed Oct 8, 2008 6:41 am ((PDT))
I use a Griffin IMic and also a IMic2(48khz.)
They work FB and are cheap on eBay!
73
Mike
----- Original Message ----
From: Simon Brown (KNS) <simon.brown(AT)kns.ch>
To: MM-SSTV(AT)yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 3:17:33 AM
Subject: Re: [MM-SSTV] New Station Advice
----- Original Message -----
From: "davemynatt" <dave(AT)mynatt.biz>
> > Would an external sound card be a
> > better investment than the internal sound card that came with the PC?
Please use a second soundcard - many SSTV users don't realise that when they
use the internal soundcard any beeps and dings from Windows are also sent
out through the same soundcard and break up the transmission (unless all
Windows sound effects are switched off).
A $50 USB external card would be an investment which you can use for many
years to come.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
------------------------------------
Messages in this topic (5)
---------------------------------------------------
******************************************************************
ABOVE IS A CROSS POST TO THE PACKET RADIO NETWORK IN AN EFFORT TO
PROMOTE FURTHER INTEREST IN SLOW SCAN TELEVISION AND PACKET RADIO
Courtesy Tony VK7AX VK7AX(AT)VK7AX.#ULV.TAS.AUS.OC
******************************************************************
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