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VK7AX > SSTV 06.08.08 05:21l 816 Lines 24979 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SSTV@WW
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
1b. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
1c. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
1d. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
From: Ron Wright
2a. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2b. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2c. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2d. Re: Modulators
From: msalbert(AT)aol.com
2e. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2f. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2g. Re: Modulators
From: Ron Wright
2h. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2i. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2j. Re: Modulators
From: Ron Wright
2k. Re: Modulators
From: Ray_Vaughan_99
2l. Re: Modulators
From: Ron Wright
2m. Re: Modulators
From: Ron Wright
2n. Going OT: DTV converter boxes (was Re: [Ham-ATV] Re: Modulators)
From: Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM
2o. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2p. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2q. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
2r. Re: Modulators
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
3a. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using the a
From: Mark Korroch
4. [Fwd: Re: [Ham-ATV] World ATV Google Map update]
From: Charles Beener
5. K9ATN Repeater coordinates. add to google map
From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
Messages
______________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 6:58 am ((PDT))
yeah, don't you just love Line A, but if you move 2 feet over the line you
can use full legal power. </HTML>
Messages in this topic (4)
____________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:04 am ((PDT))
Line A is 150 mile line from the US/Canada border. There are also power
limits in CA, and other western states and a quiet zone around west virginia to
avoid interference with GreenBank radio telescope. Read the rules. </HTML>
Messages in this topic (4)
___________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:22 am ((PDT))
The Canadians reallocated 420-430 around 1980 to public service.
Henry </HTML>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (4)
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1d. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using ...
Posted by: "Ron Wright" mccrpt(AT)verizon.net lt_wright_flg
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:28 am ((PDT))
Here in Florida we have a 50 W limit on UHF, ATV or anything else Ham
Radio including simplex and any Ham op. Not sure if all of Florida,
but most.
Getting permission to go higher power is typically a simple formality
with a form to the right agency.
Never heard of anyone having a problem getting permission.
I applied for a intenerity freq on UHF and could have gotten for all US,
but due to some paper work required because of the Canada line A
problem only ask for Florida. It was granted very quickly.
Don't know what would have been the FCCs response if I requested
all of US.
73, ron, n9ee/r
> >From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
> >Date: 2008/08/05 Tue AM 10:04:29 EDT
> >To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Ham-ATV] Re: how do you avoid interfering with
fm voice repeaters using ...
> >
> >Line A is 150 mile line from the US/Canada border. There are also
power limits in CA, and other western states and a quiet zone
around west virginia to
> >avoid interference with GreenBank radio telescope. Read the rules.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Messages in this topic (4)
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_____________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:01 am ((PDT))
Just normal modulation provides -30 dB+ in sideband reduction.
Unlike FM that is full power across the entire channel, TV tapers off
about 15 dB per Mhz because the frequency response of the video
content is not constant.
Its not unusual to see sidebands 50 dBc at +-3 Mhz.
Henry
Messages in this topic (21)
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2b. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:07 am ((PDT))
Nobodu has to go HDtv, only DTV, a signal equal to the quality of the
current analog signal (that means VHS, 3/4" etc if that is what the
station has).
Cable does not have to go digital at all, but chooses to because they
can get 4-6 stations in digital format where one analog signal exists now.
That way they can squeeze in more pay per view, home shopping, obscure
sports events, and spread out the popular channels so you have to buy 24
channels to get the 1 you want.
Henry
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:10 am ((PDT))
In a message dated 8/4/2008 10:12:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
mccrpt(AT)verizon.net writes:
> > The TV transmitter can die and we cable subscribers still get
the station.
Not true. Most cable systems rely on an over the air signal.
If you can afford the $2000/mo or more cost of a fiber link, you might
have a direct connect.
Last night every local Chicago station was off DirecTV for several hours
because the fiber node had a power outage. Right in the middle of one of
the worst thunderstorm and tornado events of the year.
Lots of luck depending on satellite since it goes out from rain and snow
anyway, and when the node power goes down, so does every link.
OTA is still the most reliable albeit still subject to outages.
Henry
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "msalbert(AT)aol.com" msalbert(AT)aol.com kb9vke
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:11 am ((PDT))
In a message dated 8/4/2008 8:03:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
ray(AT)rayvaughan.com writes:
> > A 1 kW TV transmitter is a
> > good sized equipment rack with one heck of a blower on it. It would
> > also likely use 3 phase power. I would suggest to think smaller and
> > look for a solid state 10 or 100 W LPTV UHF transmitter
A 1kW transmitter might have a pretty hot amp driving the final. Maybe 50
watts or so -- nice for ATV if you can retune it!
Mark KB9VKE
**************
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:21 am ((PDT))
Ha ha ha. 1.6 KW output from a Henry 3004, 1 tube, 2 cubic feet.
800 watts from a 3cx800, 1 cubic foot, Henry 2004.
Re-used TV power modules, 20 x 28 x 40" for 1.2 KW output.
aa9xw/k9atn
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2f. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:21 am ((PDT))
In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:12:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
msalbert(AT)aol.com writes:
> > 100 W LPTV UHF transmitter
> >
I got 12 for sale.
aa9xw
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2g. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "Ron Wright" mccrpt(AT)verizon.net lt_wright_flg
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:22 am ((PDT))
I am not talking about Chicago and all of cable TV, I am talking about
Tampa, Florida as I stated as "here", so what I said was true.
How they do it up north don't mean anything down here, hi.
About all local cable uses fiber feeds from the station studios to get
their feed. Only one that does not is one cable co way south that uses
a local CBS affil's HDTV signal as the feed.
The station pays for the site rent and equipment, not the cable co.
Direct TV gets a fiber feed from Tampa all the way to CA.
All local stations on Direct TV get coupled together and are routed to CA.
If that feed died yes the stations would be off Direct TV, but still on
cable and on the over the air here.
As for what most cable co do I don't think many know.
It is almost always a local thing. Life is not all in Chicago, hi.
Fiber is all over the place here.
73, ron, n9ee/r
> >From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
> >Date: 2008/08/05 Tue AM 10:10:20 EDT
> >To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Ham-ATV] Modulators
> >
> >In a message dated 8/4/2008 10:12:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >mccrpt(AT)verizon.net writes:
> >
>> >> The TV transmitter can die and we cable subscribers still get the station.
>> >>
> >Not true. Most cable systems rely on an over the air signal. If you can
> >afford the $2000/mo or more cost of a fiber link, you might have a direct connect.
> >Last night every local Chicago station was off DirecTV for several hours
> >because the fiber node had a power outage. Right in the middle of one of the worst
> >thunderstorm and tornado events of the year. Lots of luck depending on
> >satellite since it goes out from rain and snow anyway, and when the node power goes
> >down, so does every link. OTA is still the most reliable albeit still
> >subject to outages.
> >
> >Henry
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2h. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:26 am ((PDT))
yeah, run for cover when FPL closes down. </HTML>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2i. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:29 am ((PDT))
Several markets are collected and sent to Indianapolis before it gets to
Direct and Dish. Here, the fiber node for cable is at Sears and Handcock but not
all stations are there. Satellite is all off air at Dish and Direct at a Sprint
and XO fiber node.
Doesn't help when the ode goes down, or doesn't get to Indianapolis, or they
switch in Indianapolis stations over Chicago channels as they have frequently
screwed up and done. With over 100,000 homes without power this AM, nobody in
those homes has cable, sat or DTV. But the battery ANALOG TV sets still work
fine.
Henry
Messages in this topic (21)
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2j. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "Ron Wright" mccrpt(AT)verizon.net lt_wright_flg
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:36 am ((PDT))
Henry,
If you running color would not the 3.58 burst be high at ± 3.58 MHz carrier.
Also many use 4.5 MHz FM carrier, -10db below video carrier, be seen both
sides if video and audio combined.
Cannot find emmission limits for 420-450, not to say they are not there,
I just cannot find. 30 db down is not much.
But do see your point that due to typical modulations one sees little on
the lower SB.
73, ron, n9ee/r
> >From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
> >Date: 2008/08/05 Tue AM 10:01:06 EDT
> >To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Ham-ATV] Modulators
> >
> >Just normal modulation provides -30 dB+ in sideband reduction. Unlike FM that
> >is full power across the entire channel, TV tapers off about 15 dB per Mhz
> >because the frequency response of the video content is not constant. Its not
> >unusual to see sidebands 50 dBc at +-3 Mhz.
> >
> >Henry
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2k. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "Ray_Vaughan_99" ray(AT)rayvaughan.com ray_vaughan_99
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:37 am ((PDT))
I read yesterday that stations near the Mexican border have been
delayed so as not to lose business to the Mexican Analogs. I'm sure
Canada will be next.
--- In Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com, kevin asato <kc6pob(AT)...> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, no. Not another, "We're not ready. Can we have another delay".
We've already been through one drop dead date! I've looked at some of
the changeovers for Los Angeles and a a few stations (secondary and
3rd tier, not network) are going to go with a flash cut with due dates
on the 17th.
> >
> > Agreed, after that time, we will probably see a fire sale for all
sorts of analog equipment.
> >
> > kevin
> > kc6pob
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2l. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "Ron Wright" mccrpt(AT)verizon.net lt_wright_flg
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:52 am ((PDT))
What are you asking for one of these. How much does it weight and is it
solid state???
Any info on these would be good...drive required, power voltages and
current, etc.
73, ron, n9ee/r
> >From: a9xw(AT)cs.com
> >Date: 2008/08/05 Tue AM 10:21:36 EDT
> >To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Ham-ATV] Modulators
> >
> >In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:12:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
> >msalbert(AT)aol.com writes:
> >
>> >> 100 W LPTV UHF transmitter
>> >>
> >
> >I got 12 for sale.
> >aa9xw
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2m. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "Ron Wright" mccrpt(AT)verizon.net lt_wright_flg
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:02 am ((PDT))
Ray,
You mean Mexicans in Mexico cannot get the gov issued $40 cards for
HDTV boxes. I guess another reason to come to America, hi.
My cards expire in 13 days. I've got to get moving.
73, ron, n9ee/r
> >From: Ray_Vaughan_99 <ray(AT)rayvaughan.com>
> >Date: 2008/08/05 Tue AM 10:37:37 EDT
> >To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Ham-ATV] Re: Modulators
> >
> >I read yesterday that stations near the Mexican border have been
> >delayed so as not to lose business to the Mexican Analogs. I'm sure
> >Canada will be next.
> >
> >--- In Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com, kevin asato <kc6pob(AT)...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Oh, no. Not another, "We're not ready. Can we have another delay".
> >We've already been through one drop dead date! I've looked at some of
> >the changeovers for Los Angeles and a a few stations (secondary and
> >3rd tier, not network) are going to go with a flash cut with due dates
> >on the 17th.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed, after that time, we will probably see a fire sale for all
> >sorts of analog equipment.
>> >>
>> >> kevin
>> >> kc6pob
> >
> >
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2n. Going OT: DTV converter boxes (was Re: [Ham-ATV] Re: Modulators)
Posted by: "Iain MacDonnell - K6IAM" k6iam(AT)dseven.org k6iam
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:10 am ((PDT))
Ron Wright wrote on 08/05/08 08:00:
> > You mean Mexicans in Mexico cannot get the gov issued $40 cards for HDTV
> > boxes. I guess another reason to come to America, hi.
Hah!
> > My cards expire in 13 days. I've got to get moving.
I recommend the "DTVPal" - I paid a little extra for shipping from
cheapdigitalconverters.com, but it's in a different class from the GE
that I (wish I hadn't) spent my first coupon on at Target.
~Iain
> > >From: Ray_Vaughan_99 <ray(AT)rayvaughan.com <mailto:ray%40rayvaughan.com>>
> > >Date: 2008/08/05 Tue AM 10:37:37 EDT
> > >To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ham-ATV%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: [Ham-ATV] Re: Modulators
> >
> > >
> > >I read yesterday that stations near the Mexican border have been
> > >delayed so as not to lose business to the Mexican Analogs. I'm sure
> > >Canada will be next.
> > >
> > >--- In Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com <mailto:Ham-ATV%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > kevin asato <kc6pob(AT)...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Oh, no. Not another, "We're not ready. Can we have another delay".
> > >We've already been through one drop dead date! I've looked at some of
> > >the changeovers for Los Angeles and a a few stations (secondary and
> > >3rd tier, not network) are going to go with a flash cut with due dates
> > >on the 17th.
> > >>
> > >> Agreed, after that time, we will probably see a fire sale for all
> > >sorts of analog equipment.
> > >>
> > >> kevin
> > >> kc6pob
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ron Wright, N9EE
> > 727-376-6575
> > MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
> > Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
> > No tone, all are welcome.
> >
> >
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2o. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:14 am ((PDT))
sound should be - 15 dBc to prevent triple beat. Actually sound works
even at -25 it is non critical.
Most TV stations are now -15 to -20, the old -10 went out of fashion
with most because in common mode amplification (one amp for sound and
video) the IM figures are much better with lower sound carrier levels.
Color is a small bump and is a subcarier with sharp sideband rolloff.
The I & Q carriers are not symetrical one being 1.5 meg and the other
.5 meg, and in reality, hardly anything beyond a half meg.
Color sort of paints in big swatches, there is nil color detail it
mories and dot crawls.
Henry
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2p. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:16 am ((PDT))
In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:38:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
ray(AT)rayvaughan.com writes:
> >
>> > > Agreed, after that time, we will probably see a fire sale for all
> > sorts of analog equipment.
> >
Folks are not tossing out analog. A lot of the studio stuff is still analog,
and transmitters can be converted to digital. Some RF stull will migrate to
translators, boosters, and LPTV's It might be easier to get a good analog
exciter and re crystal it for ATV. Then again, house video is still analog and
nothing says I can't use the old exciter for in house MATV to feed all those in
house analog TV sets, DVD recorders, etc. </HTML>
Messages in this topic (21)
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2q. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:21 am ((PDT))
These are Comark solid state amps. Retuned at the factory (sticker attached)
for ATV. Rated 100 W out continous forever, with 150 W out for ATV no
problem. They are about the size of 4 D100's, run on 26 volts. class A, near nothing
IM. N connector in/out. $300 each. Just be sure to have a fan on it. Has a
over temp auto shut off. Being class A, doesn;'t care a lot about VSWR, but I
would add a simple diode detector trip. I also have combiners to put 3 in
parallel with a 4th as a driver. usually 10 dB gain. 20 watts max drive. About 16
lbs shipping weight.
AA9XW K9ATN </HTML>
Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
2r. Re: Modulators
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 8:23 am ((PDT))
NO, there is no analog shut off in Mexico, so all the Mexicans will just
watch Mexican TV from Mexico vs Mexican DTV from border cities: Waco, San Diego,
Brownsville, etc. </HTML>
Messages in this topic (21)
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________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice repeaters using the a
Posted by: "Mark Korroch" wb8tgy(AT)yahoo.com wb8tgy
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:11 am ((PDT))
Many of us that live near the Canadian border can not operate below 430MHz
on 70cm.
I forget how far from the border "Line A" is but it cuts through Michigan.
We have one ATV repeater in western part of lower Mich that outputs at 421,
but we in the center part of the state and east can't transmit there
(not a problem because the inputs at 439.25).
Areas like Detroit are using 420 to 430 for public safety and maybe business
band stuff.
Mark, WB8TGY
--- On Mon, 8/4/08, James - KB7TBT <kb7tbt(AT)gmail.com> wrote:
From: James - KB7TBT <kb7tbt(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ham-ATV] Re: how do you avoid interfering with fm voice
repeaters using the atv frequency?
To: Ham-ATV(AT)yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:43 PM
Where are you and where is this rule you are speaking of?
In the USA 420 - 440 is allocated for many things including ATV specifically
421.25 aka Cable CH 57
James
KB7TBT
NEGARC Activities Manager
www.kb7tbt.com
www.ne4ga.org
www.myspace. com/kb7tbt
>> >> You can use 420-430 for ATV.
> >
> > Not according to FCC rules.
Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________
4. [Fwd: Re: [Ham-ATV] World ATV Google Map update]
Posted by: "Charles Beener" cbeener(AT)columbus.rr.com wb8lga
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:12 am ((PDT))
Hi Gene:
I have add a couple of things on my Google Map.
1. I have a Help page that is located in the top left of the web
page. Just click on Help page.
2. I have made so you can have a Friend List of your own. You make
up the list of the Station that you want to see.
Max of 100 stations. See the Help page. for it operation.
The next stage I'll make it so you can save the Friends list info
to a file on you computer. It will make it a faster load of the
map. Should make the load time under 10 seconds. This will not be
a easy task !
My Google map page Link
http://home.columbus.rr.com/cbeener/GMapATVQ.html
Charles
Well Good Idea Gene
I have URLs install on my Web Page. There in the pop up window
that comes up with the mouse over the marker.
It is under line text showing that its a URL location. and if you
click on that text it will open a new web page on your browser.
Also the Band filter selection also works on the repeaters and
stations now.
The only bad thing is the in the URL text I can't have a ( & = ? ) in
that text. So if a web page has one of the three text I'll
have to leave the URL off the map for them. What it does is errors out
the script so it don't load any of the Markers.
Enjoy
WB8LGA
Charles
Gene Harlan wrote:
> >
> > Another nice feature for repeaters would be to have the possibility to
> > list
> > a URL in the box.
> >
> > That way someone can look to see what the IN / OUT and other details
> > of the
> > repeater.
> >
> > Gene - WB9MMM
Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________
5. K9ATN Repeater coordinates. add to google map
Posted by: "a9xw(AT)cs.com" a9xw(AT)cs.com
Date: Tue Aug 5, 2008 7:25 am ((PDT))
41, 20, 56
87, 24, 02
Messages in this topic (1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*******************************************************************
ABOVE IS A CROSS POST TO THE PACKET RADIO NETWORK IN AN EFFORT TO
PROMOTE FURTHER INTEREST IN SLOW SCAN TELEVISION AND PACKET RADIO
Courtesy Tony VK7AX VK7AX(AT)VK7AX.#ULV.TAS.AUS.OC
*******************************************************************
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