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VK7AX > APRS 31.12.07 00:24l 385 Lines 13377 Bytes #999 (0) @ VKNET
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Subj: [APRS] Digest Number 1447
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From: VK7AX@VK7NW.#ULV.TAS.AUS.OC
To : APRS@VKNET
There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: Tim Smith
1b. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: Peter Dakota Summerhawk
1c. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: Scott Miller
1d. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: kc2mmi_whitelisted email
1e. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: Jason
1f. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: Jason
1g. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
From: Scott Miller
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "Tim Smith" tsmith_groups@mattapoisett.org rt_smith
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:15 am ((PST))
--- In APRS@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Vuong" <mvuong1@...> wrote:
> > Argent Data Systems also has a Puxing PX-777 VHF Handheld Radio for
> > $90. Has anyone had any problem with interfacing OT with it? My main
> > goal is for vehicle tracking. Is that radio sufficient? or will the
> > SRB MX146 Transmitter be enough? Thanks again!
Hi Andy:
If you are looking to make your tracker somewhat portable and don't
have a lot of space, then a small HT is ok. However if it is
something that you are thinking about leaving in the car full time,
then consider getting a surplus 2-meter transceiver with 25 watts or
more. QRP from an HT is ok if you have some high altitude or wide
coverage digi's (or plenty of fills). These radios are plentiful on
eBay and usually lack PL tones or a lot of memories, which make their
market value somewhat low...but great for the packet and aprs
community. The Alinco DR110, 140 or 1200 are great radios for APRS and
are relatively small. I took an Opentracker and an Alinco radio and
tucked it on a small plastic box and placed it behind the seat of my
pickup. I direct connected it to the battery with a relay that drops
out after I remove the ignition key or hit a kill switch if I don't
want to be tracked.
If you are handy and want to keep the package small and portable, I
suggest looking at the first generation synthesized HT's as they are
cheap and easily hacked. My favorite is the Icom 2AT, which I
completely remove from it's case and mount in a box along side the OT.
It does require some handy work such as putting a small voltage
regulator to directly power the unit (since they operate from 8 to 10
volts). These are usually cheap ranging from $20 to $50, but will
give you 1.5 watts on APRS.
If it's "off the shelf" stuff without breaking out the soldering iron
and dremel tool, then I think Argent may have everything you need to
cable up one of his radios or any late model transceiver.
73,
Tim
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "Peter Dakota Summerhawk" sg14ranger@yahoo.com sg14ranger
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:56 am ((PST))
Scott,
Been looking for a TNC that I can use for APRSPoint on my sony while
traveling. Does the TNC support the program?
Thanks
Peter Dakota Summerhawk
-----Original Message-----
From: APRS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:APRS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Miller
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:14 AM
To: APRS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [APRS] OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
The TNC-X has an optional USB module. I opted to keep the USB guts
external - I sell adapter cables for my trackers. At some point I'll
add USB support (I've already got a working prototype, but it's not high
on my priority list) but I plan to do it through the processor's USB
interface rather than an off-the-shelf converter chip. It gives more
flexibility and lower cost, but it means a lot more development work.
For my latest project (a simplex repeater) I'm not even using a serial
interface for programming. It just has an audio connection - you'll be
able to program it from a PC, CD player, or whatever. Sort of like back
in the VIC-20 days with data cassettes. =]
Scott
N1VG
Peter Dakota Summerhawk wrote:
> > I just wish that they made a decent TNC that has USB as my Sony Viao
has
> > no serial port and I don’t like using a serial to USB adapter. Elcom
has
> > some decent USB TNC that I am looking at using for APRS as they run
USB
> > and are about the same size.
> >
> > Peter Dakota Summerhawk
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: APRS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:APRS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Jim
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:46 PM
> > To: APRS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [APRS] OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
> >
> > I've used both extensively and am strongly in favour of the
OpenTracker.
> >
> > Main reason is that the TinyTrak is prone to locking up in the
presence
> > of
> > strong RF, which can get into it via the GPS cable etc. Filtering
> > (extensive
> > in my case - with metal boxes, chokes on inputs etc. etc.) has only
been
> > partly successful. OT has never locked up, even deliberately trying.
> >
> > The OT firmware also just feels more mature and complete, with the TT
> > having
> > annoying quirks.
> >
> > My use has been in emergency comms, so both have had plenty of "harsh"
> > real
> > world testing.
> >
> > No connection with either, jut a very happy OT user!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim, G1HUL
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: APRS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:APRS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Andy
> > Vuong
> > Sent: 28 December 2007 03:39
> > To: APRS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [APRS] OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
> >
> > Hi Everyone. I am debating between buying an OpenTracker+ or the
> > TinyTrak3.
> > Have anyone used either one of these and would like to share their
> > thoughts?
> > and recommendations? Thanks in advance!
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "Scott Miller" scott@opentrac.org n1vg
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:30 am ((PST))
As long as the program supports KISS - I'm not sure if APRSPoint does.
Scott
N1VG
Peter Dakota Summerhawk wrote:
> > Scott,
> > Been looking for a TNC that I can use for APRSPoint on my sony while
> > traveling. Does the TNC support the program?
> > Thanks
> >
> > Peter Dakota Summerhawk
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: APRS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:APRS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Scott Miller
> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:14 AM
> > To: APRS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [APRS] OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
> >
> > The TNC-X has an optional USB module. I opted to keep the USB guts
> > external - I sell adapter cables for my trackers. At some point I'll
> > add USB support (I've already got a working prototype, but it's not high
> >
> > on my priority list) but I plan to do it through the processor's USB
> > interface rather than an off-the-shelf converter chip. It gives more
> > flexibility and lower cost, but it means a lot more development work.
> >
> > For my latest project (a simplex repeater) I'm not even using a serial
> > interface for programming. It just has an audio connection - you'll be
> > able to program it from a PC, CD player, or whatever. Sort of like back
> >
> > in the VIC-20 days with data cassettes. =]
> >
> > Scott
> > N1VG
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "kc2mmi_whitelisted email" kc2mmi@bluebottle.com h0chus_p0ckus
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:40 am ((PST))
Andy-
"...for vehicle tracking. Is that radio sufficient?"
That really depends on how many receivers are in your area, or rather, how much
power you'll need to hit the ones that are around. In some locations you can use
a 50W radio and a 1/4 wave rooftop antenna and still be invisible. In others,
you can use flea-power and still be picked up.<G> You might want to take a look
at your area with some APRS software and see if there are others being picked
up, and if so ask them what they are running. Needless to say, effective output
power is what counts and optimizing your antenna choice may be the most
important thing.
Scott-
Plain Mil-Std-810 is an obsoleted 1962 spec.
http://www.dtc.army.mil/pdf/810June1962.pdf
Of course the Chinese sources must be trustworthy and they've really submitted
that radio to a certification lab for one of the specific newer levels of that
standard, haven't they? (Cynical hairy barbarian from the low kingdom, ain't
I?<G>)
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "Jason" lists@ke4nyv.com ke4nyv
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:37 pm ((PST))
--- In APRS@yahoogroups.com, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
> > The MX146 takes some integration work. RPC Electronics is about to
> > start taking orders for the RTrak, though, which has an SMT OT1+,
an
> > MX146, and Copernicus GPS module all in one aluminum enclosure.
> >
> > Also, version 1.5 of the OT1+ SMT board (not on the site yet) will
> > include support for setting frequencies on the MX146.
We are about a week away from starting to take orders on the RTrak.
Drop by our site at www.rpc-electronics.com for all of the released
details so far.
You can also join us at out Yahoo group for the latest information,
announcements and pictures:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rtrak
Thanks for the plug Scott!
Jason KE4NYV
RPC Electronics
www.rpc-electronics.com
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "Jason" lists@ke4nyv.com ke4nyv
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:41 pm ((PST))
--- In APRS@yahoogroups.com, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:
> >
> > As long as the program supports KISS - I'm not sure if APRSPoint
does.
Before I got hooked on XASTIR (Linux APRS), I was looking at
switching over to APRSPoint since I already own MS Streets and I like
the way the maps look/work. Plus, the program is being actively
developed (Unlike UI-View). I emailed the author about KISS and I
was told the program did NOT support KISS and there was no plans in
the future to do so.
Since I have plenty of OpenTrackers, Tracker2s and TNC-X's lying
around, I prefer to use a program that supports KISS. Nowadays, it
doesn't make much sense to dedicate a $180 TNC with 1000 functions to
just operate an APRS station in Converse mode. KISS really is the
way to go. Deffinently alot cheaper!
Jason KE4NYV
RPC Electronics
www.rpc-electronics.com
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
1g. Re: OpenTracker vs. TinyTrak
Posted by: "Scott Miller" scott@opentrac.org n1vg
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:39 pm ((PST))
KISS is the better interface method by far - not to say that it's the
best (there are improved versions out there), but it's more reliable
than using converse mode.
Converse mode was NOT designed for machine to machine interfacing. It's
intended to be used by a human operator. TNC designers (myself
included) have made attempts to keep a relatively standard
look-and-feel, but there are differences. Even if they're not
noticeable to a human user, they're enough to throw off a computer.
There are also plenty of things that are undefined - like how to handle
extra linefeeds in packets or non-printable characters. It's far too
easy for the program and the TNC to get out of sync.
KISS is a very simple, straight-forward interface. It defines a very
simple state machine, and keeping the TNC and program in sync is trivial.
I think the real reason you don't see KISS in some APRS programs is that
the programs are written in Visual Basic or a similar language that
doesn't allow easy access to binary data. It takes a different set of
tools to manipulate 8-bit data streams, while in converse mode you can
(when things work right) get by with the sort of string manipulation any
programmer who's ever taken a high school BASIC programming class would
know.
I don't mean this as a slight against anyone, but I have trouble taking
any modern APRS application seriously if it can't handle KISS, or at
least an AGWPE interface.
Scott
N1VG
> > Before I got hooked on XASTIR (Linux APRS), I was looking at
> > switching over to APRSPoint since I already own MS Streets and I like
> > the way the maps look/work. Plus, the program is being actively
> > developed (Unlike UI-View). I emailed the author about KISS and I
> > was told the program did NOT support KISS and there was no plans in
> > the future to do so.
> >
> > Since I have plenty of OpenTrackers, Tracker2s and TNC-X's lying
> > around, I prefer to use a program that supports KISS. Nowadays, it
> > doesn't make much sense to dedicate a $180 TNC with 1000 functions to
> > just operate an APRS station in Converse mode. KISS really is the
> > way to go. Deffinently alot cheaper!
> >
> > Jason KE4NYV
> > RPC Electronics
> > www.rpc-electronics.com
> >
Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
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