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CX2SA > SATDIG 07.07.09 01:45l 526 Lines 17918 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: dream .. Universal TextMessaging (Bob Bruninga )
2. Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM (MM)
3. Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM
(John B. Stephensen)
4. Re: Information. (Trevor .)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:25:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: dream .. Universal TextMessaging
To: kd8bxp@xxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20090706102530.AKB42843@xxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Replying to BB.
> I was really kind of surprised to find people
> in MI using pagers [for APRS messages], up until
> then I wasn't sure if they were premitted via Part 97.
Since pagers are available for peanuts as the cell phone industry steamrolls
over them, it is frustrating to me that we hams have not jumped on these truck
loads of text-messaging devices that can be converted over to a frequency in
our bands and used for this kind of amateur radio text messaging capability.
> Pagers are very easy to understand -
> the only thing is you need a radio
> that is capable of sending the page
Yes, and the Kantronics 9612 TNC's for the last many years can generate the
POCSAG Pager formats, so it is easy to do. I'm sure it could also just be
done in soundcard software too if we just found someone motivated to do it.
> A database could be made simular to dstar that
> holds your "personal" capcode - that would equal
> your call sign - so sending a page to one pager
> should be fairly easy to do
>
> But the great thing is most pagers can have
> 4 5 or 6 or more cap codes - if the cap codes
> are the same then all of the pagers that "hear"
> the paging signal will display the same
> information at the same time
Yes group codes can be very versatile.
> Anyways, I would welcome you to take a look
> at my site, and or my blog....
> http://www.box.net/shared/f20sjvtxyf
Using paging devices on Amateur Radio is perfectly legal like any other radio.
It all boils down to use. If you use it for setting up a one-way systemm for
a pizza delivery service, it is clearly illegal. If you use it as part of
your overall local communications network of amateur radio volunters it is
just one more tool in the tool box.
You just have to ignore the curmudgeons who have nothing better to do than
nit-picking ways to prevent other hams from developing useful applications of
technology. A pager is simply the text-to-user device integrated into the
normal local 2-way amateur radio communications system.
My Universal Text Messaging Web page
(www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html) has a link to a web page that highlights
the conversion of these pagers to amateur use. UNFORTUNATELY, the pager site
activity appears to have dried up since nothing new has been posted in a year
or so. Just too many people buying blackberry's I guess.
But I'd sure like to see a revival. These devices are out there by the
millions.
An amateur satellite would make a great downlink to these pagers. Again, the
goal should simply be, any message, any time, anywhere using any device to any
user by callsign alone.
Bob, WB4APR
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
>
>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:15:19
>To: <kd8bxp@xxx.xxx>; <amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx>; John B.
Stephensen<kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>; <kc6uqh@xxx.xxx>; 'rupert
red'<rupert.red@xxxx.xx>; <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: dream .. Universal Text
> Messaging
>
>
>> I had an idea of setting up a pager network.
>> That could be used for national or local
>> emegrancy.... There is a man in MI doing this
>> with his APRS group and emegancy coms now.
>> I like the idea of being able to text any call
>> sign by just knowing the call sign -
>
>Yes, that is the goal of the Universal Text Messaging Initiative.
www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html
>
>> doesn't DStar offer a way to do this?
>
>Yes via client software called D-Rats. It cross connects messages from D-
Rats laptops to the APRS system, where for years text messages are delivered
to the front panel of any APRS mobile or hand held radio, cellphones, pagers
or anything via any callsign @xxxx.xxx or @xxxxx.xxx etc
>
>> It would or shouldn't be too hard to setup
>> a way for someone to know the call and have it
>> routed to a pager.
>
>Yes, that is the goal, any message to any call, using any device for sending
or receiving.
>
>> It is still an idea but at this point it
>> is just an idea.
>
>No it is more than that, it is an Initiative that we hope more authors and
systems will get on board. We have been trying to get an article into QST on
this subject since last November, and it will finally appear in the Septermber
EMCOM issue of QST. (initiall they rejected it because it was not "broad
enough to appeal to a majority of readers" or something like that.
>
>But with over two dozen text messaging systems in Amateur Radio already, we
have just got to start linking them otogether seamlessly!
>
>> LeRoy, KD8BXP
>> http://www.HamOhio.com
>> Sent on the Now Network?
>> from my Sprint? BlackBerry
>
>Yes! That's the idea!
>
>Bob, WB4APR
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
>>
>>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:01:25
>>To: John B. Stephensen<kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>; <kc6uqh@xxx.xxx>; 'rupert
red'<rupert.red@xxxx.xx>; <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: dream your own sat
>>
>>
>>> Any interest by the Red Cross would not be in the
>>> satellite but in human volunteers that might come
>>> with it. Unfortunately, the LEO satellites that
>>> hams can afford generate little interest in this forum.
>>
>>I wish we could some how better influence the dozens of cubesat satellites
being built with AX.25 packet comm systems to at least consider a backup
digipeater comm system. If just six of these allowed for a possibility of
user digipeating, we would have a constellation that would provide worldwide
text messaging capability from mobiles and handhelds with delays no more than
30 minutes.
>>
>>What a fantastic emergency comm system we could have. If ten of them were
available, then the coverage would be nearly continuous.
>>
>>Amateur Radio needs to recognize its trememdous legacy of over a century of
wireless text messaging and our ability to bring that connectivity to the
field any time anywhere. We simply need to link them together to meet our
overall "Universal Amateur Radio Text Messaging Initiative", that is, any ham,
any where, any time, able to text message any other ham anywhere using any
hardware device, commercial or amateur by callsign alone.
>>
>>Please see www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html
>>
>>I count over 2 dozen existing amateur radio text messaging systems few of
which are currently crossconnected. Most talk only within their own
constituents. APRS and some others are already cross connected at the email
level which then connects to cellphones and other wireless devices. So
crossconnecting at the APRS internetwork or at the email level is easy to do.
We just need all authors to consider transparent cross connection as a goal as
per the above web page.
>>
>>This has already been done for all APRS satellites and even the ARISS system
when it came over the the Satellite APRS channel 145.825. When ARISS is in
packet mode, it enables text messaging and Email to and from the front panel
of any APRS radio in the world via our existing network of APRS ground
stations. See the downlinks on www.ariss.net
>>
>>We have tried to get other packet satellites on that channel, SUNSAT,
PCSAT1, PCSAT2, ANDE, RAFT and ISS all of which supported this universal text
messaging. We need more, and longer lived satelites. And most any AX.25
cubesat could do it as a secondary mission. We need to look for opportunities
there.
>>
>>We had GO32 also for a year or so until its recent demise, though it's
frequency was different.
>>
>>Bob, WB4APR
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:26:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: MM <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon?
MM
To: James French <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Armando Mercado <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <574737.46155.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The Amateur radio community does not have the resources to build a better
communication system than a professional commercial company.
So we have two options, use existing lander hardware for communication or
design our own stand alone transceiver project that just uses existing power
and or antennas.
After the lander has released the Rover, the lander ?May? have some unused
resources. Lets see if any of these unused resources (if any) can be used for
Amateur Radio projects.
How is the Lander going to be powered?
Batteries only:
If so, there will be no power for projects. The lander telemetry will stop
after a few days. This is not a likely scenario.
Solar Panels and Batteries:
In this option, there may be some available power during lunar days to run
other projects. This is the most sensible solution.
Atomic Battery:
This is the best option, however it?s politically sensitive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
The power source is one of the keys to designing a possible Amateur Radio
project. Let?s ping our contacts at NASA and see what we can learn about the
Moon Lander projects.
Flash Back:
On ISS, the Russian team proposed that we re-use navigation antennas from the
FGB modules for Amateur Radio (1996). The idea worked and on the very first
ISS mission we had access to an already installed antenna. It was a simple
idea and it worked.
Education Spin:
Contributing to the project from a scientific nature may be difficult, we will
have to get some universities involved, or we could focus on the educational
nature of the project.
Lets try to put the educational spin that School and university are
communication via the Moon, with radio station designed and built by the
schools.
I am not saying that NASA would approve this project, but until we try we will
not know.
This project does not have to be an AMSAT project, we can make it a University
project.
Sincerely Miles WF1F
--- On Mon, 7/6/09, James French <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> From: James French <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM
> To: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 9:33 AM
> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 05:53 -0700, MM
> wrote:
> > Yes Exactly!
> >
> > We need to form a proposal team that can evaluate the
> data to find out
> > if an EME-Repeater is viable.
> >
> > Time is short.
>
> One thing, Miles.
>
> Frank Bauer commented:
> On another topic, WRT the Lunar ILN, if you read the
> solicitation, they
> are discussing *15 kg* payloads.? And these need to
> accomplish some
> scientific objective to further lunar
> exploration.???Given this, I do
> not think the ILN is a viable AMSAT project.
>
> What would be the SCIENTIFIC payload that we would be
> providing?
>
> I know that I mentioned in previous replies that we MIGHT
> be able to
> land a chance on something that A government would be doing
> if we could
> MAYBE provide a communications package for a craft. Going
> by Frank's
> statement and putting it into the context of what we are
> planning, I
> would NOT be surprised that we got turned down because we
> are not prov-
> iding something that contributes to the SCIENTIFIC nature
> of the
> mission. The government probably ALREADY has a contractor
> to build and
> provide the communications package(s) for these missions.
>
> Is there anything else that is being proposed that we can
> get in on the
> ground floor to provide this knowledge and equipment? I
> haven't seen
> anything and personally I didn't even know about the ILN
> even.
>
> I am NOT trying to be the one to burst the bubble here.
> This subject
> HAS been brought up a number of times over the past four
> years of putt-
> ing something on the lunar surface. Each time, the answers
> and suggest-
> ions have gotten better as we have gotten more people that
> know what it
> takes climb on board the discussion. Hopefully this time
> this discussion
> will get past just that, discussion, and progress to an
> Idea of Concept
> stage that can then be taken to the next step, finding a
> suitable candi-
> date for this.
>
> James W8ISS
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:08:49 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon?
MM
To: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>, "James French" <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Armando Mercado <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <C31063BC2FAB4BA2AB16969F3D704E5E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Hi Miles,
Since the rest of us on this BB don't have any details about the landers, it
would be useful if you could get a copy of any RFP (request for proposal)
and find out how much DC power will be available for how long, how much
weight and surface area could be allocated for the package and what type of
experiments NASA is interested in. Then we could calculate what could be
provided for an RF downlink to earth and how many people could use it.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "James French" <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>; "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 14:26 UTC
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? MM
>
>
>
> The Amateur radio community does not have the resources to build a better
> communication system than a professional commercial company.
>
> So we have two options, use existing lander hardware for communication or
> design our own stand alone transceiver project that just uses existing
> power and or antennas.
>
> After the lander has released the Rover, the lander ?May? have some unused
> resources. Lets see if any of these unused resources (if any) can be used
> for Amateur Radio projects.
>
> How is the Lander going to be powered?
> Batteries only:
> If so, there will be no power for projects. The lander telemetry will
> stop after a few days. This is not a likely scenario.
>
> Solar Panels and Batteries:
> In this option, there may be some available power during lunar days to run
> other projects. This is the most sensible solution.
>
> Atomic Battery:
> This is the best option, however it?s politically sensitive.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
>
> The power source is one of the keys to designing a possible Amateur Radio
> project. Let?s ping our contacts at NASA and see what we can learn about
> the Moon Lander projects.
>
> Flash Back:
> On ISS, the Russian team proposed that we re-use navigation antennas from
> the FGB modules for Amateur Radio (1996). The idea worked and on the
> very first ISS mission we had access to an already installed antenna. It
> was a simple idea and it worked.
>
> Education Spin:
> Contributing to the project from a scientific nature may be difficult, we
> will have to get some universities involved, or we could focus on the
> educational nature of the project.
> Lets try to put the educational spin that School and university are
> communication via the Moon, with radio station designed and built by the
> schools.
>
> I am not saying that NASA would approve this project, but until we try we
> will not know.
> This project does not have to be an AMSAT project, we can make it a
> University project.
>
>
> Sincerely Miles WF1F
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:56:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Information.
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <537989.91715.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi John,
I couldn't see any references to the Russian Federation "pulling the plug on
the ISS".
As I understood it they are keen to extend the lifespan of the ISS although
the current agreement is that the station is burnt up in the atmosphere when
the funding ends, which I believe is 2015 but hopefully may become 2020 or
later.
Anatoly Zak
also had one of his articles published in May on the BBC
website regarding the possibility of detaching the Russian modules from the
ISS and adding the ball-shaped compartment with docking ports, see
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8064060.stm
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 322
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