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CX2SA > SATDIG 05.07.09 21:09l 631 Lines 21112 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: More Future Thoughts (Gordon JC Pearce)
2. Hi to the 13 Original 13 Colonies - Motherland Calling !!
(Jim Heck)
3. Subject: Re: Antenna Question (Mike Ryan)
4. dream your own sat (rupert red)
5. An alternative ... or ... competition !!!. (John Hackett)
6. Molinya (John Hackett)
7. ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon? (Armando Mercado)
8. Re: dream your own sat (Art McBride)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:56:38 +0100
From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: More Future Thoughts
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <1246784198.31737.8.camel@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sat, 2009-07-04 at 09:13 -0400, Jeff Davis wrote:
> I recall reading something from G0RMF about adapting a CubeSat to include
> some sort of a propulsion system to get to a mid-Earth orbit:
>
> http://g0mrf.com/MEOSAT.htm
>
> I have no idea if this is viable, but it seems to me that if we want to
> place assets higher than LEO these are the kinds of ideas we should be
> kicking around on the BB and perhaps leave the moon base installation ideas
> for AMSAT members in 2050 to figure out how to make work and to fund.
I do see one snag with that article. The author talks about reducing
transponder bandwidth to increase the transmit power, which is fair
enough - that 13dB has to come from somewhere. However, because the
footprint is correspondingly larger there will be much more contention
for bandwidth because more people will be attempting to use it.
Of course, the increased complexity of the ground station will put some
people off, so perhaps not as many people will be capable of hitting the
MEO satellite. Furthermore, if it was used for narrow band modes like
CW and PSK, 50kHz might well be perfectly adequate.
I could be completely wrong, though.
Gordon 2M0YEQ
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:47:01 +0100
From: "Jim Heck" <jim@xxxxxx.xx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Hi to the 13 Original 13 Colonies - Motherland
Calling !!
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <OLECJJCJBEHDCCHICKFFGEMEGCAA.jim@xxxxxx.xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
HI Folks,
About 36 hours ago, I had an excellent QSO with Tim, N3TL via FO-29 on SSB.
We had
about a two minute window, so we did't have much time for rag chewing!!!
According to my investigations, there are only a few orbits of FO-29 (my
favorite
satellite at present, and I think the only one high enough to reach many of
the
Eastern States). One of them occurs in about 12 hours, at 0044 (UTC) 5 July.
Bearing in mind Tim is in quite far south, it should be possible for
addition
States to be worked from here.
Please note that I can only do SSB (CW is far to rusty, I'm sorry to say)
If anyone in the 13 States would like to make a sked for this orbit of FO-
29,
please email me off list at g3wgm@xxxxx.xxx
73s, and Happy Holidays!
Jim G3WGM
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:57:48 -0400
From: "Mike Ryan" <mryan301@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Subject: Re: Antenna Question
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <5F28F652C6E84E549ADBF6A317E691A0@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello all,
Now that I was remionded to look, my qhtenna units came with a 1 page assemby
instructions and drawing that includes lengths of rods and phasing harness.
I'd be glad to scan/post it somewhere if anyone wants it.
Mike WB1AAT
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:45:22 +0000
From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Antenna Question
To: George Henry <ka3hsw@xxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, Jim Jerzycke <kq6ea@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4A4FBF62.3090406@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
I would suggest that you don't need a phasing line if the dipoles are spaces a
quarter wave and that both are fed by
equal length cables.
George Henry wrote:
> Looking at the pictures, it appears that the dipoles are separated by about
> 1/4 wave in free space, which is physically longer than a 1/4 wave phasing
> line would be. And I'd think that the phasing line would have to be 1/2
> wavelength, after introducing a 1/4 wave offset between the dipoles,
> correct?
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:47:18 +0000
From: rupert red <rupert.red@xxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] dream your own sat
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W16D3B0861B04CBB23489F7962A0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hallo all...
from a while I'm hearing about MANY different and interesting satellite
solutions...
LEO, MEO, HEO, GEO... MOON !!!
The problem is only ONE !
Amateur radio community has no money for this project, and will never have!
Amsat & Co will never be able to collect millions.... I red on this bb that
hams has no money for an expensive ground station... then how can they send
many money to Amsat?
Public and private organizations all over the world have not an high
consideration of hams, and will never invest founds for them.
The conclusion is only ONE... we will never see a new oscar satellite in the
sky (at least some student's cube).
Let's all dream together guys.
Best 73 Rupert
_________________________________________________________________
Condividi e organizza le tue immagini con Windows Live Foto.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:46:08 +0200
From: John Hackett <archie.hackett@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] An alternative ... or ... competition !!!.
To: <eu-amsat@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: allan_gm1sxx@xxxxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <BLU141-W15D0416BC901BCBCAA5F4D912A0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Ladies and Gentlemen,
For those that don't know it, The chief of
RosKosmos, the Russian Space Agency *confirmed* last week the Russian
intention to pull the plug on the ISS in the 2015 - 2020 timeframe and to
construct another dedicated Russian
space station.
According to Anatoly Zak RosKosmos informed NASA of these plans 14 days ago.
The new Russian station is *NOT* intended to be a laboratory like the ISS but
more of an in-orbit contruction platform for future Mars-like and outer space
missions.
The station will comprise a maintainable 'ball' section with several docking
ports
with attachable modules.
I propose that amateur radio satellite operators get together and form a group
to suggest/try to influence/impliment an ARISS type of project for this space
station.
A Strela type frame could be attached to the underside of the 'ball' and since
the station is planned for a Molinya type orbit the coverage would be suitable
for DX.
The planned orbit would put the station predominently over Russia - as opposed
to the current ISS equatorial orbit.
Personally, I would suggest an RS-10/11 RS-12/13 clone with a ROBOT ...
(read: propagation tester) - as these satellites were without the shadow of a
doubt the best for recruiting newcomers.
It would, in my opinion, be a viable concept and an alternative to some of the
latest 'ideas' of a transponder on the moon ... which wouldn't 'catch' many
potential newcomers but would (*IN MY OPINION*) only serve a few dedicated
'experts' ... leading to the demise of amateur satellite communications in
general.
Comments, monies and praise to LA2QAA.
Criticisms, horsewhipping and flaming to GM1SXX.
73 John. <la2qaa@xxxxx.xxx>
Interested parties may read the following ...
..............................................................................
..................................
The OPSEK project
By
2008, the Russian successor to the International Space Station, ISS,
was identified as Orbitalniy Pilotiruemyi Eksperimentalniy Kompleks,
OPSEK, or Orbital Manned Assembly and Experiment Complex in English.*
Unlike previous designs of Mir, Mir-2 and the ISS,
the heart of the station would be a four-ton ball-shaped node module.
Equipped with six docking ports, this relatively small and simple
element would be the only permanent element of the station. All other
modules would come and go as their lifespan and mission requires.
The initial architecture of the OPSEK complex could be built out of
modules originally planned for the Russian segment
of the ISS. The exact scenario of the OPSEK assembly would depend on
the end of the ISS and the readiness of the latest Russian modules.
According to a 2008 scenario, the MLM multipurpose module, the node module and
a pair of NEM power platforms could be first launched to the ISS in 2011, 2013
and 2014-2015,
respectively. With the deorbiting of the ISS looming around 2020, these
modules could separate from the old outpost to form the core of the new
Russian station. Another, more controversial scenario considered the
separation of the practically entire Russian segment, including the MIM-2
docking compartment and the Zvezda service module,
prior to the ISS deorbiting. In this case, the 20-year-old service
module would temporarily take a responsibility for the flight control
of the OPSEK, until its replacement with a 40-ton versatile core
module, UMB, launched by a next-generation rocket from yet-to-be built launch
site in Vostochny during 2020s.
The
separation of the Russian segment from the ISS would leave the rest of
the outpost without effective orbital maneuvering capabilities, leaving
the European ATV spacecraft
as a likely candidate to perform the tasks of attitude control and
deorbiting. To achieve this the ATV would have to be modified to enable
its docking with the US segment of the ISS.
Depending
on the operational orbit selected for the OPSEK, it might be necessary
to change the orbital inclination of the modules departing the ISS and
forming the new station. The lowest inclination accessible from
Vostochny is 51.7 degrees, while the ISS is orbiting the Earth with the
inclination 51.6 degrees toward the Equator. It is estimated that one
or two Progress cargo ships would be necessary to push the modules from one
inclination to another.
From
official statements during 2008 and 2009, it is clear that the one of
the chief objectives of the OPSEK complex would be the support for
expedition to Mars. All major elements of the Martian expeditionary
complex, such as main habitation module, Mars lander and
nuclear-powered space tug would dock to the station before its
departure from the low-Earth orbit toward Mars. The Martian expedition
would at the OPSEK as well.
The station would also play a similar role in lunar exploration.
Reusable space tugs could link OPSEK with the Lunar Orbital Station, LOS, in
orbit around the Moon, thus creating a transport chain for a permanent lunar
base. Such tasks as servicing of modular satellites by orbital tugs based at
the OPSEK complex were also cited.
In
broader terms, TsNIIMash research institute, a chief strategist of the
Russian space agency, formulated the OPSEK concept as a foundation of
the nation's space strategy. By 2009, the new station was seen as a
cornerstone of a new space exploration plan, which extended four
decades into the 21st century. An ambitious program apparently included
manned missions to the Moon, Mars and beyond. (344)
Cooperation with Europe and the US
In
2008, Russian plans for maintaining presence in the low-Earth orbit in
general and the creation of a successor to the ISS in particular had
been met enthusiastically in Europe. As ESA had little hope to match
the US effort to return to the Moon at the beginning of the 21st century,
preserving a destination in the low-Earth orbit seemed critical for the
political support of the manned space flight on the continent.
In
June 2009, Simonetta Di Pippo, ESA director of human space flight told
the editor of RussianSpaceWeb.com that she shared the Russian vision of
the future space station as a platform for deep space missions. "I have
continuous consultations with officials in Russia. We meet every month,
month and a half, and now
we are going to start jointly, the study how to proceed beyond 2025, Di
Pippo said, ..."and we have a common idea that we would like to
preserve presence in the lower orbit. We are studying different
scenarios, whether we need permanent presence or, maybe, a human-tended
capability, and we can end up with a totally different solution in the
end, but I don?t believe we can leave Earth orbit."
Di Pippo also said that although current NASA plans for return to the
Moon
reserved no essential role for the station, it could change in the
future. "Even on the NASA side, they have too many different
developments (associated with the Earth orbit), including commercial
involvement, which they can not immediately give up," Di Pippo said.
By the end of 2010,
all partners in the ISS project were expecting to agree on the
extension of the ISS lifespan from 2015 to 2020 or even 2025. Once end
of life for the ISS was decided an active planning for post-ISS manned
space flight could begin in Russia, Europe and possibly the US.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:47:39 +0200
From: John Hackett <archie.hackett@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Molinya
To: <g0mrf@xxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx eu-amsat@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <BLU141-W13E5DC656FCFB4830CFF58912A0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
David,
My use of the word Molniya was ambiguous.
I should !!! have emphisised *LEO* elliptical. Let me explain ...
The word Molinya in Russian means (literally) 'lightning' but in a space
context it is accepted to mean ELLIPTICAL ... as per their TV satellite
orbits which are in English dialogue would be classified as *HIGHLY*
elliptical.
The planned space station is envisaged in a 70 degree LEO orbit.
I apologise for my misleading remarks.
73 John. <la2qaa@xxxxx.xxx>
From: G0MRF@xxx.xxx
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 11:32:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] An alternative ... or ... competition !!!.
To: la2qaa@xxxxx.xxx
In a message dated 05/07/2009 15:17:02 GMT Standard Time,
archie.hackett@xxxxxxx.xxx writes:
The
new Russian station is *NOT* intended to be a laboratory like the ISS but
more of an in-orbit contruction platform for future Mars-like and outer
space
missions.
The station will comprise a maintainable 'ball'
section with several docking ports
with attachable modules.
I
propose that amateur radio satellite operators get together and form a group
to suggest/try to influence/impliment an ARISS type of project for this
space
station.
A Strela type frame could be attached to the underside of the
'ball' and since the station is planned for a Molinya type orbit the
coverage
would be suitable for DX.
Hi John.
Just wondering.... Is a Molinya orbit highly elliptical
?? If so, then it cant really go above 1000km high or the crew will
get zapped by the protons in the lower van Allen belt.
Thanks
David
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:48:04 -0400
From: "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ILN... Is this our future ride to the moon?
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <37D177AEDD134210854947473E93EDE3@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=original
Greetings,
The International Lunar Network appears
to be the unmanned landers NASA is planning
to put on the moon. The program is working to
put 2 landers on the moon in the 2012-2014
time frame.
Here are some excerpts from a Request for
Information by NASA regarding instruments
for its International Lunar Network (ILN).
Pay special note to the mass and power
limits.
Is this what we are talking about putting a
transponder on?
73, Armando, N8IGJ
******
Date Released: Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Source: Goddard Space Flight Center
NASA Solicitation: Instruments for U.S. International
Lunar Network (ILN) Lunar Missions
Description of Anticipated Requirement
NASA expects to emplace the first two nodes (the "anchor"
nodes) of the ILN in the 2012-2014 timeframe with two
additional nodes to be emplaced roughly two years later,
depending on funds availability. All nodes will carry
identical core instrument payloads. The ILN mission requires
long lived instruments which can be operated as a network
for six years (the anchor nodes will necessarily have to last
longer). It is anticipated that a very small amount of power
will be available to enable continuous operation through
the lunar night.
Concept studies for the spacecraft are now under development
at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center working with the
Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) of The Johns Hopkins
University. The mission will be tightly constrained in both
mass and power. It is expected that the total available mass
for all payload instruments will be approximately 15 kg,
although the precise mass available for the payload will
depend on the launch vehicle and other trades still being
considered. The total available payload power will be
approximately 15 W.
The total budget for the ILN anchor nodes including
development and operations is $200M. Schedule and budget
constraints require that NASA mission planners focus on
relatively mature instruments.
******
See the following links for more info:
http://www.moontoday.net/news/viewsr.html?pid=29834 (The full Request for
Information)
http://iln.arc.nasa.gov/welcome (General info on ILN)
http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/file_download/26/ILN+Final+Report.pdf
(Detailed info
on ILN... Note: large file 13MB)
Happy reading,
Armando, N8IGJ
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:00:11 -0700
From: "Art McBride" <kc6uqh@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: dream your own sat
To: "'rupert red'" <rupert.red@xxxx.xx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <C9D15D6BAF55475CA4A6F3A328ED4288@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rupert,
I think that is a fair assumption on your part, but only because the are no
new ideas being presented that have commercial potential that can use
Amateur Radio as an inexpensive to proof of concept.
In the present Amateur Radio community only Emergency Communications is
getting the publicity. Perhaps FEMA or the Red Cross might help pay for an
emergency communication satellite otherwise it is LEO's forever!
Art, KC6UQH
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of rupert red
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:47 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] dream your own sat
Hallo all...
from a while I'm hearing about MANY different and interesting satellite
solutions...
LEO, MEO, HEO, GEO... MOON !!!
The problem is only ONE !
Amateur radio community has no money for this project, and will never have!
Amsat & Co will never be able to collect millions.... I red on this bb that
hams has no money for an expensive ground station... then how can they send
many money to Amsat?
Public and private organizations all over the world have not an high
consideration of hams, and will never invest founds for them.
The conclusion is only ONE... we will never see a new oscar satellite in the
sky (at least some student's cube).
Let's all dream together guys.
Best 73 Rupert
_________________________________________________________________
Condividi e organizza le tue immagini con Windows Live Foto.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 319
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