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CX2SA > SATDIG 04.07.09 00:42l 1158 Lines 40993 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: KEP 09183 PROBLEM (GW1FKY@xxx.xxxx
2. Re: The Moon is our Future (Joe)
3. Re: KEP 09183 PROBLEM (Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF)
4. Putting Talk Into Action! (Bill Ress)
5. Re: The Moon is our Future (John B. Stephensen)
6. AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention (Stephen E. Belter)
7. Re: AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention (Simon (HB9DRV))
8. Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO (Armando Mercado)
9. Re: Putting Talk Into Action! (Roger Kolakowski)
10. AO27 Demonstration during Teachers Institute (Mark Spencer)
11. controller and Rotator help (myles landstein)
12. Re: AO27 Demonstration during Teachers Institute (kd8bxp@xxx.xxxx
13. Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO (James French)
14. Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO (Joe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:18:57 EDT
From: GW1FKY@xxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: KEP 09183 PROBLEM
To: ka8qcu@xxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <c18.5b667664.377fb3a1@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi,
The keps obtained from the BBS today loaded and worked OK with SATPC32.
However for some other software such as "ORBITRON" and SATSCAPE were I
stripped out the header and footer I did run into a rather strange problem.
These programmes would not list all of the satellites in the menu to tick
for selection, I checked my source
file was still OK and correct - unable to sort out the problem.
I had saved my original and they loaded OK !!!
Ken Eaton
GW1FKY
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:57:33 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
To: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>,
kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4A4E62AD.7030905@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Been Thinkin',
John B. Stephensen wrote:
>A more meaningful appoach for an exercise like this is to start with DC
>power input for the entire package. Receivers consume power and transmitters
>(especially linear ones) are inefficient and the efficency goes down with
>increasing frequency. On the moon, you also have to heat the electronics at
>night to prevent failure.
>
>
What difference is there and why if there is any a difference of shadow
cold on the moon, vs shadow in orbit? If anything i would think you
would get some thermal radiation heating from the soil. wjereas in
space you don't get this benefit.
>Linear microwave power amplifiers have 20-35% efficiencies and VHF
>amplifiers might reach 50%. You can make more efficient amplifiers by
>converting the output signal into magnitude and phase or frequency
>components and using class C, D or E amplifiers. However, the added
>circuitry (whether analog or digital) also consumes power. FM makes sense
>for single channel transponers as the amplifiers can be nonlinear and you
>can get 80% efficiency at VHF. SSB amplifiers have a double inefficiency as
>you must design for peak power output which is 4-5 times the average power
>output. Amateur HEO satellites have used SSB for multichannel applications
>as you can count on the voice peaks for different users to occur at
>different times and design for the average power of all users. However, you
>need lots of users to reach this goal.
>
>73,
>
>John
>KD6OZH
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
>To: "Joe" <nss@xxx.xxx>
>Cc: "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>; "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>;
><kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx>
>Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 14:41 UTC
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
>
>
>
>
>>Hi Joe,
>>
>>The specification given by Miles WF1F is for a Lander transmit power of 5
>>to 10 watt in 70 cm from the moon.My calculation shoves that a single SSB
>>station to be received in 70 cm with a S/N ratio of 10 dB on the earth a
>>power of 10 watt in 70 cm is necessary on the moon.
>>
>>If you like an IF window 10 time greater i.e. 250 KHz to accomodate more
>>stations at the same time than the Lander transponder must have the
>>capability to get around 100 watt wich is out the WF1F specifications.
>>
>>73" de
>>
>>i8CVS Domenico
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joe
>> To: i8cvs
>> Cc: MM ; kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx ; AMSAT-BB ; Jack K.
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
>>
>>
>> This is all good except for one thing,
>>
>> The IF window is 10 times too small.
>>
>> Look at the mess the FM single channel birds are with their tiny surface
>>foot print. Imagine now a whole hemisphere worth of people trying to use
>>it at once. The thing would be useless
>>
>> i8cvs wrote:
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
>>To: <kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx>; <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>; "Jack K."
>><kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:31 PM
>>Subject: [amsat-bb] The Moon is our Future
>>
>>
>>We need a simple Mode-J transponder (2-meters up, 440 down).
>>Low power consumption.
>>Assume minimal antenna gain from the Lander (3 dBd on each antenna)
>>Assume transmitter power 5-10 watts.
>>
>>Questions:
>>What?s the link budget?
>>How much gain will be needed on earth for such a setup?
>>Can we build a working mockup in 1 year or less.
>>
>>The Moon is within Reach. Let?s Go for IT.
>>
>>Miles WF1F MarexMG.org
>>
>>
>>Hi Miles, WF1F
>>
>>The gain of the 2 meters antenna on the Lander is 3 dBd = 5.14 dBi
>>Assume that the Noise Figure of the 2 meter receiver is 0.5 dB = 35 kelvin
>>and the sky temperature as seen by the 2 meter Lander antenna looking at
>>the earth is conservatively 290 kelvin but (probably more ).
>>The isotropic path loss earth-moon in 2 meters at an average distance of
>>380.000 km is 187 dB
>>You don't specify the IF bandwidth of your transponder so that for
>>simplicity I will assume that only one QSO will be possible in SSB and 3
>>on CW in a total BW = 2.5 KHz
>>With the above data the calculated Noise Floor (KTB) of the above 2 meter
>>Lander receiver is -139 dBm
>>We assume to use an earth 2 meters antenna with a gain of 13 dBi and a
>>power
>>of 100 watt pep in 2 meters.
>>
>>UPLINK BUDGED:
>>
>>Earth TX power 100 watt.............................+ 50 dBm
>>Earth antenna gain............................. .............+ 13 dB
>> ------
>>Earth EIRP.....................................................+ 63 dBm
>>2 m isotropic attenuation earth-moon..............-187 dB
>> ------
>>Isoptropic power received on the moon .........- 124 dBm
>>2 meters Lander antenna gain.........................+ 5 dBi
>> ------
>>Power applied to the 2 m Lander receiver......- 119 dBm
>>Lander receiver 2 m Noise Floor...................- 139 dBm
>> ------
>>S/N ratio available from the Lander receiver.. + 20 dB
>>
>>COMMENT:
>>With a 2 meter signal +20 dB above the noise floor the
>>70 cm TX on the Lander transponder is in condition to
>>supply a noise-less power between 5 to 10 watt pep to
>>the 70 cm TX antenna.
>>
>>DOWNLINK BUDGED:
>>
>>The gain of the 70 cm antenna on the Lander is 3 dBd = 5.14 dBi
>>and the 70 cm power is 10 watt pep
>>Assume that the Noise Figure of the 70 cm earth receiver is
>>0.5 dB = 35 kelvin and the sky temperature as seen by the 70 cm
>>antenna looking at the moon is 75 kelvin
>>Assume that the antenna gain of the 70 cm earth receiver is 18 dBi
>>The isotropic path loss earth-moon in 70 cm at an average distance of
>>380.000 km is 197 dB
>>With the above data the calculated Noise Floor (KTB) of the 70 cm
>>ground receiver is -144 dBm
>>
>>Lander 70 cm TX power 10 watt...................+ 40 dBm
>>Lander antenna gain.......................................+ 5 dBi
>> ------
>>70 cm EIRP from the moon...........................+ 45 dBm
>>70 cm moon-earth isotropic attenuation .........-197 dB
>> ------
>>70 cm power available in to isotropic antenna -152 dBm
>>70 cm earth receiving antenna gain..................+ 18 dBi
>> ------
>>70 cm power on input of the earth receiver.....-134 dBm
>>70 cm Noise Floor of the earth receiver..........-144 dBm
>> ------
>>S/N ratio at the output of 70 cm receiver.......+ 10 dB
>>
>>COMMENT:
>>Using a Lander transponder on the moon with 2 meters and
>>70 cm antenna's gain in the order of 5 dBi will not produce
>>serious problems of pointing at the earth due of libration.
>>If the Lander transponder is capable to develope 10 watt
>>pep and the IF bandwidth is very narrow in the order of
>>2.5 KHz it is possible to accomodate one SSB QSO or 3 CW
>>QSO just using the actually available TX and RX equipments for
>>satellite communications i.e.
>>For the uplink in 2 meters 100 watt pep and a 13 dBi antenna gain
>>For the downlink in 70 cm a receiving system with an overall Noise
>>Figure of 0.5 dB and antenna gain of 18 dBi
>>The rate of change of the frequency due of doppler shift in 2 meters
>>and 70 cm is very slow and easily manually compensated even into
>>only a 2.5 KHz bandwidth
>>The antenna polarization is very important because a linear signal
>>transmitted from the earth or from the moon by stations located in
>>different continents can be reversed from Vertical to Horizontal
>>polarization so that at least on the earth circular RHCP and LHCP
>>switchable polarization is recommended.
>>
>>Best 73" de
>>
>>i8CVS Domenico
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2215 - Release Date: 07/02/09
>>18:06:00
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
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05:53:00
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>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:22:08 +0000
From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: KEP 09183 PROBLEM
To: GW1FKY@xxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4A4E6870.60608@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Orbitron doesn't require you to strip surrounding text.
GW1FKY@xxx.xxx wrote:
> Hi,
> The keps obtained from the BBS today loaded and worked OK with SATPC32.
> However for some other software such as "ORBITRON" and SATSCAPE were I
> stripped out the header and footer I did run into a rather strange problem.
> These programmes would not list all of the satellites in the menu to tick
> for selection, I checked my source
> file was still OK and correct - unable to sort out the problem.
> I had saved my original and they loaded OK !!!
> Ken Eaton
> GW1FKY
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
Nigel A. Gunn, 1865 El Camino Drive, Xenia, OH 45385-1115, USA. tel +1 937
825 5032
Amateur Radio G8IFF W8IFF (was KC8NHF), e-mail nigel@xxxxx.xxx www
http://www.ngunn.net
Member of ARRL, GQRP #11396, QRPARCI #11644, SOC #548, Flying Pigs QRP Club
International #385,
Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA LM-1691, AMSAT-UK 0182, MKARS, ALC,
GCARES, XWARN.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:39:24 -0700
From: Bill Ress <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Putting Talk Into Action!
To: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4A4E6C7C.5070006@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hello all,
This "moon" thread has prompted some interesting thoughts. Perhaps some
of you might like to channel that talk into action.
I chair the AMSAT Engineering Task Force (ETF), of which Drew
Glasbrenner is a member. He has already noted the need for volunteers.
I'm going to comment on one of the current ETF tasks that can use your
support.
For the past two years we have defined the satellite features we should
have for a HEO (high earth orbit) launch opportunity. We stand prepared
to embark on that project "IF" the funds (more than $8 million) are made
available to us. Well folks - we're no closer to landing $8 mil plus
today then we were two years ago. The situation is no different then the
financial problems facing the P3E project.
So, the revised Mission Vision resulting from the October 2008 Board
meeting tasked us to prepare a strategy to get us ready for "ANY LAUNCH"
opportunity that we uncover(yes - that includes LEOs). Our satellite
sub-system module development program is making good progress to meet
that object.
That said - we are starting to define the "features" we'd like to see on
our next "realistic and attainable" satellite project. Assuming it could
be a LEO launch, possibly a 1X to 3X CubeSat style satellite, WHAT WOULD
YOU LIKE TO SEE ON BOARD, by way of communication, science experiments, etc.
Let's see how creative you can be, but let's temper our desires with
realism.
Send me your list (off line preferably). I'll sort the responses and
report back to the -bb, and the Board, with what you folks are thinking
about. If there is an aspect of satellite design or a project you're
keen on doing, let me know that too. If your a students with an idea
that didn't make it on you're school's CubeSat project or the project is
going too slow for you - I'd like to hear from you too.
I know we keep trying to get your inputs and make you part of the
solution and it usually doesn't succeed. Will this solicitation be any
different??
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
>> Why don't AMSAT folks do a business/grant/ plan and go after
>> seed money, with the goal of collecting the $20 million. It's just sitting
>> there, from Google, waiting for geniuses like we already have to go after
>> it. No free money; just available to those who want it bad enough.
>
> So what's stopping you?
>
> Seriously folks, AMSAT is not some big monolith that you send all your
> prayers to and wait for them to happen. We are AMSAT. If you feel strongly
> about a project, put together a plan and a team and bring it to the BOD
> prepared to describe how you are going to accomplish it. The problem is
> AMSAT is chronically short of those who want to really help. We have three
> empty officer positions. We only had enough BOD candidates to fill the seats
> available and the alternate. We have a list in every Journal of jobs we need
> help with, but very few have stepped forward to actually help. We need folks
> with skills in:
>
> Marketing
> Sales
> Software Engineering
> Hardware Engineering
> PC Based Software Design
> Web design and maintenance
> Project Management
> Documentation
> Hardware Testing
> Software Testing
> Hardware Prototyping
> Specific Area Web site information maintenance
> Video Recording, digital conversion and editing
> Writing Technical or Instructional Material
> Educational Activities
> Promoting AMSAT as an Area Coordinator
>
> ...and whatever else you think might help.
>
> See Page 19 of the last AMSAT Journal. If you don't get the Journal, join
> AMSAT so you can have a say in what we do by whom you elect to the BOD.
> Arguing about it on the internet is one thing, but doing something about it
> takes another level of commitment.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:48:09 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
To: "Joe" <nss@xxx.xxx>
Cc: "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>,
kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <F912AC722CA04305B56F01893C501880@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
HEOs are illuminated 99% of the time and LEOs are illuminated 50% or more of
the time with eclipses by the earth lasting only 45 minutes. Thermal inertia
can keep the temperature from swinging too far in either direction. Since the
satellite is in a vacuum, heat can only be radiated away as in a Dewar flask.
On the moon, the eclipse lasts for 2 weeks so more cooling occurs. During the
other 2 weeks, heat from the electronics and solar illumination must be
radiated away. Every lander that I have seen has a few spindly legs so there
won't be much heat conduction to the moon's surface.
However, I'm not an expert on thermal design. When I was designing a 70 cm
receiver for AMSAT, others did the thermal analysis. Nothing behaves in space
as it does on Earth as there is no convection cooling.
Building a prototype that works on Earth for project like this is only a few
percent of the effort required. Treating it as a radio club project won't be
effective as people need to sign up for a 5-year project. If your making an
add-on to a NASA project you have to fit into their shedule, design to their
specifications, produce the documentation that they need, travel to their test
facilities and pass their tests. There are also legal requirements (ITAR) when
working on space-related projects.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe
To: John B. Stephensen
Cc: i8cvs ; Jack K. ; AMSAT-BB ; kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 19:57 UTC
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
Been Thinkin',
John B. Stephensen wrote:
A more meaningful appoach for an exercise like this is to start with DC
power input for the entire package. Receivers consume power and transmitters
(especially linear ones) are inefficient and the efficency goes down with
increasing frequency. On the moon, you also have to heat the electronics at
night to prevent failure.
What difference is there and why if there is any a difference of shadow
cold on the moon, vs shadow in orbit? If anything i would think you would
get some thermal radiation heating from the soil. wjereas in space you don't
get this benefit.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:49:41 -0400
From: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention
To: "AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<51668A33220E754EABE6583357ECEE2D24E50352@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Videos of the six presentations at the AMSAT Forum at the 2009 Dayton
Hamvention are now on the AMSAT website. Click on this link
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/information/videoNews.php
or go to the AMSAT website and click on AMSAT Video News about halfway down
the page in the left column.
The presentations are:
1. Richard Garriott's forum talk (mislabeled on the web site as the Banquet
presentation, actual length about 15 minutes) on his visit to the ISS.
2. AMSAT Status report, Barry Baines, WD4ASW
3. SuitSat-2 Project Status, Gould Smith, WA4SXM
4. Satellite Operations Status, Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA
5. ARISS Status, Will Marchant, KC6ROL
6. Columbus Module Antennas, Lou McFadin, W5DID
73, Steve, N9IP
--
Steve Belter
seb@xxxxxx.xxx
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:58:48 +0200
From: "Simon \(HB9DRV\)" <simon@xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Forum videos from Dayton Hamvention
To: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@xxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <38DBCBBD65034CAD8A0BE8326019B55B@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Excellent - many thanks.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@xxxxxx.xxx>
> Videos of the six presentations at the AMSAT Forum at the 2009 Dayton
> Hamvention are now on the AMSAT website. Click on this link
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:57:56 -0400
From: "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <7EFF43CE9638485E9B51502A002F0C6E@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=original
Greetings,
First of all, I appreciate the efforts of the dedicated few of
AMSAT that actually go out and make things happen.
You don't hear "Thank you" often enough.
Being this early in the idea phase, there are a lot of
questions and unknowns. What frequencies to use and
what the link requirements will be can all be worked out.
The bigger question for me is if the moon is a good platform
for an amateur transponder. No doubt it is technically doable.
If the decision is based only on launch availability--It's the moon
or nothing at all--then to the moon we go. But let's all
understand what we are getting into.
To the best of my knowledge, NASA does not now have an
unmanned lunar lander mission that has been approved, although
there is a lander planned in the greater scheme of things. Perhaps
someone could direct me to some current information.
The last I knew, the plan called for a lander referred to as RLEP-2.
It was going to be a lander/rover powered by RTG's with a 1 year
mission to explore Shackleton crater near the moon's south pole.
The cost was going to be in the $400-$750 million range. The launch
vehicle was going to have excess capacity so it was proposed that
3-4 mini satellites be deployed in lunar orbit to do remote sensing
AND provide a communication link for the lander.
So, if this is the mission we are talking about putting our transponder
on, it sounds like we won't hear it on earth once the rover drives
into the crater. Putting our transponder on one of the mini satellites
sounds like a better plan.
Again, I had difficulty finding current information on NASA's unmanned
lunar lander plans. The last I read anything about RLEP-2 was that it
was in serious trouble because of cost and was going to be sharply
cut back.
If our NASA host spacecraft will take care of all the housekeeping
and provided free power, then a low cost transponder sounds like
something we can do (although AMSAT-NA currently does not have
a satellite lab--we may need to contract out the transponder work).
We just need to understand we will not have control of the on/off
switch (the repeater on the ISS or the Planetary Society's
microphone on the Mars Phoenix lander for example).
The days of getting a free launch is over, and it is too bad the Intelsat
ride share idea did not pan out for us. As I have said before, I am
not opposed to a transponder on the moon, I just have a lot of
unanswered questions.
Thanks again to the dedicated few at AMSAT that make things happen.
Armando, N8IGJ
>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 18:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
>From: MM <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
>To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>Message-ID: <228402.31352.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>High orbit launch prices
>I can?t afford that and I do not know anyone at Huges, so I am looking into
>the piggyback options. Let some other company pay the big bucks for the
>flight >and navigation and just tag along for the ride.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:03:26 -0400
From: "Roger Kolakowski" <rogerkola@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Putting Talk Into Action!
To: "Bill Ress" <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "Andrew Glasbrenner"
<glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <000801c9fc2a$190d5560$0300a8c0@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Why not initially inquire of William Leijenaar PE1RAH about his completed
transponder, the Mark I, Type I of which is already in space in the
satellite from India?
Last heard he was looking for a standardized frame for a cubesat to place it
in...work with him financially, provide him with, or aim him toward a frame
and put it "on the AMSAT shelf" for the next available launch "anyone"
finds.
Here is an "engineering student" (as quoted from the AMSAT website) who has
accomplished all of this by himself...offer him some help as well as the
big, wide world influence of AMSAT to find the NEXT launch. Who cares what
orbit it is in? (that ought to start thing up again!)
Roger
WA1KAT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Ress" <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 4:39 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Putting Talk Into Action!
> Hello all,
>
> This "moon" thread has prompted some interesting thoughts. Perhaps some
> of you might like to channel that talk into action.
>
> I chair the AMSAT Engineering Task Force (ETF), of which Drew
> Glasbrenner is a member. He has already noted the need for volunteers.
> I'm going to comment on one of the current ETF tasks that can use your
> support.
>
> For the past two years we have defined the satellite features we should
> have for a HEO (high earth orbit) launch opportunity. We stand prepared
> to embark on that project "IF" the funds (more than $8 million) are made
> available to us. Well folks - we're no closer to landing $8 mil plus
> today then we were two years ago. The situation is no different then the
> financial problems facing the P3E project.
>
> So, the revised Mission Vision resulting from the October 2008 Board
> meeting tasked us to prepare a strategy to get us ready for "ANY LAUNCH"
> opportunity that we uncover(yes - that includes LEOs). Our satellite
> sub-system module development program is making good progress to meet
> that object.
>
> That said - we are starting to define the "features" we'd like to see on
> our next "realistic and attainable" satellite project. Assuming it could
> be a LEO launch, possibly a 1X to 3X CubeSat style satellite, WHAT WOULD
> YOU LIKE TO SEE ON BOARD, by way of communication, science experiments,
etc.
>
> Let's see how creative you can be, but let's temper our desires with
> realism.
>
> Send me your list (off line preferably). I'll sort the responses and
> report back to the -bb, and the Board, with what you folks are thinking
> about. If there is an aspect of satellite design or a project you're
> keen on doing, let me know that too. If your a students with an idea
> that didn't make it on you're school's CubeSat project or the project is
> going too slow for you - I'd like to hear from you too.
>
> I know we keep trying to get your inputs and make you part of the
> solution and it usually doesn't succeed. Will this solicitation be any
> different??
>
> Regards...Bill - N6GHz
>
>
> Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
> >> Why don't AMSAT folks do a business/grant/ plan and go after
> >> seed money, with the goal of collecting the $20 million. It's just
sitting
> >> there, from Google, waiting for geniuses like we already have to go
after
> >> it. No free money; just available to those who want it bad enough.
> >
> > So what's stopping you?
> >
> > Seriously folks, AMSAT is not some big monolith that you send all your
> > prayers to and wait for them to happen. We are AMSAT. If you feel
strongly
> > about a project, put together a plan and a team and bring it to the BOD
> > prepared to describe how you are going to accomplish it. The problem is
> > AMSAT is chronically short of those who want to really help. We have
three
> > empty officer positions. We only had enough BOD candidates to fill the
seats
> > available and the alternate. We have a list in every Journal of jobs we
need
> > help with, but very few have stepped forward to actually help. We need
folks
> > with skills in:
> >
> > Marketing
> > Sales
> > Software Engineering
> > Hardware Engineering
> > PC Based Software Design
> > Web design and maintenance
> > Project Management
> > Documentation
> > Hardware Testing
> > Software Testing
> > Hardware Prototyping
> > Specific Area Web site information maintenance
> > Video Recording, digital conversion and editing
> > Writing Technical or Instructional Material
> > Educational Activities
> > Promoting AMSAT as an Area Coordinator
> >
> > ...and whatever else you think might help.
> >
> > See Page 19 of the last AMSAT Journal. If you don't get the Journal,
join
> > AMSAT so you can have a say in what we do by whom you elect to the BOD.
> > Arguing about it on the internet is one thing, but doing something about
it
> > takes another level of commitment.
> >
> > 73, Drew KO4MA
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:42:52 -0400
From: "Mark Spencer" <mspencer@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO27 Demonstration during Teachers Institute
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<20090703174303.B3CF24B70730@xxxxxxxxxxx.x.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I will be giving a demonstration of ham radio satellites during the ARRL ETP
Teachers Institute in Dayton, Ohio on July 7th. I will be using AO27 and
the 1515 EST pass. The equipment will be an ARROW and HT. I will be using
the call W1AW/8. If you hear us, please give a shout. For those that make
contact, if you would like a QSL, send your card to me, WA8SME, and I'll get
you a card.
Mark Spencer, WA8SME
ARRL-The national association for Amateur Radio
Education and Technology Program Coordinator
mspencer@xxxx.xxx
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/tbp/> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/tbp/
530-495-9150
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:47:24 -0400
From: myles landstein <myles.landstein@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] controller and Rotator help
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <80E6221D-27F5-4439-819E-5AF4A95745D2@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hoping to get some real world advice from those that are using
MacDoppler and a compatible Rotor /Controller set up as this will
be my first time getting a rotator and controller.
I wanted to solicit some advice on two fronts, the rotor
controller basically for ease of use with MacDoppler and
rotor reliability.
My first thoughts were towards a Yaesu 5500 and maybe the
PrimeTec controller or maybe the LVB tracker as it's less costly.
I read a few reviews but not much was out there in general but
especially on the PrimeTec...
What are you using as a controller? would appreciate any
comparisons pro's cons tips tricks you might have
My biggest concern really is the Rotator. I am in a situation such
that after installation, getting back to the roof for repairs
would be rather difficult. So i am trying to identify the 'best'
small/moderate sized rotator (az/el) as possible /practical.
Will be turning a small M2 2m and 440 circular pol beam
Not really sure how reliable the 5500 is for long term use. so
if there was a 'better' more reliable and or longer lasting rotor
out there i'd strongly consider it
The only thing I thought of as a alternative was the AlphaSpid but
comparing reviews I seem to come out about the same between it and
the 5500
Since this is all new stuff and I am not finding the usual
quality 'google' results /reviews I would greatly appreciate any
help or experience /advice on this from someone that went down
this road already and willing to share some first hand info.
thanks very much grateful for any advice.
Going to Dayton '10 It will get better with
more support!
Myles D Landstein
N2EHG
myles.landstein@xxxxx.xxx
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:28:32 +0000
From: kd8bxp@xxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO27 Demonstration during Teachers Institute
To: "Mark Spencer" <mspencer@xxxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx
amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<838502835-1246656500-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
855530980-@xxxxxxx.xxxx.xxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mark,
Can we come and see the demonstration? And I hope the weather is nice :-)
LeRoy, KD8BXP
http://www.HamOhio.com
------Original Message------
From: Mark Spencer
Sender: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO27 Demonstration during Teachers Institute
Sent: Jul 3, 2009 1:42 PM
I will be giving a demonstration of ham radio satellites during the ARRL ETP
Teachers Institute in Dayton, Ohio on July 7th. I will be using AO27 and
the 1515 EST pass. The equipment will be an ARROW and HT. I will be using
the call W1AW/8. If you hear us, please give a shout. For those that make
contact, if you would like a QSL, send your card to me, WA8SME, and I'll get
you a card.
Mark Spencer, WA8SME
ARRL-The national association for Amateur Radio
Education and Technology Program Coordinator
mspencer@xxxx.xxx
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/tbp/> http://www.arrl.org/FandES/tbp/
530-495-9150
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent on the Now Network? from my Sprint? BlackBerry
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:46:12 -0400
From: James French <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
To: AMSAT-BB <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <1246657572.15911.3.camel@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
The thing is we have 'discussed' this a FEW times in the past and
the ideas get better each time plus the technical discussion gets
more information input each time.
Maybe this time things will progress beyond the talking and more
into the planning/design phase.
James W8ISS
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:29:59 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
To: Armando Mercado <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4A4E8667.4050802@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
I agree on the Lunar X Prize,
http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/
There are 19 teams so far in the chase,
why do we not contact every one of them with the proposal?
there is 30 million purse there a waiting.
we could even say give us the ride and they can keep the prize
Joe WB9SBD
Armando Mercado wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>First of all, I appreciate the efforts of the dedicated few of
>AMSAT that actually go out and make things happen.
>You don't hear "Thank you" often enough.
>
>
>
>Being this early in the idea phase, there are a lot of
>questions and unknowns. What frequencies to use and
>what the link requirements will be can all be worked out.
>
>The bigger question for me is if the moon is a good platform
>for an amateur transponder. No doubt it is technically doable.
>If the decision is based only on launch availability--It's the moon
>or nothing at all--then to the moon we go. But let's all
>understand what we are getting into.
>
>To the best of my knowledge, NASA does not now have an
>unmanned lunar lander mission that has been approved, although
>there is a lander planned in the greater scheme of things. Perhaps
>someone could direct me to some current information.
>
>The last I knew, the plan called for a lander referred to as RLEP-2.
>It was going to be a lander/rover powered by RTG's with a 1 year
>mission to explore Shackleton crater near the moon's south pole.
>The cost was going to be in the $400-$750 million range. The launch
>vehicle was going to have excess capacity so it was proposed that
>3-4 mini satellites be deployed in lunar orbit to do remote sensing
>AND provide a communication link for the lander.
>
>So, if this is the mission we are talking about putting our transponder
>on, it sounds like we won't hear it on earth once the rover drives
>into the crater. Putting our transponder on one of the mini satellites
>sounds like a better plan.
>
>Again, I had difficulty finding current information on NASA's unmanned
>lunar lander plans. The last I read anything about RLEP-2 was that it
>was in serious trouble because of cost and was going to be sharply
>cut back.
>
>If our NASA host spacecraft will take care of all the housekeeping
>and provided free power, then a low cost transponder sounds like
>something we can do (although AMSAT-NA currently does not have
>a satellite lab--we may need to contract out the transponder work).
>We just need to understand we will not have control of the on/off
>switch (the repeater on the ISS or the Planetary Society's
>microphone on the Mars Phoenix lander for example).
>
>The days of getting a free launch is over, and it is too bad the Intelsat
>ride share idea did not pan out for us. As I have said before, I am
>not opposed to a transponder on the moon, I just have a lot of
>unanswered questions.
>
>Thanks again to the dedicated few at AMSAT that make things happen.
>
>Armando, N8IGJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 18:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: MM <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
>>Subject: [amsat-bb] Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
>>To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>>Message-ID: <228402.31352.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>
>
>
> >High orbit launch prices
>
>
>
>>I can?t afford that and I do not know anyone at Huges, so I am looking into
>>the piggyback options. Let some other company pay the big bucks for the
>>flight >and navigation and just tag along for the ride.
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2216 - Release Date: 07/03/09
05:53:00
>
>
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 315
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