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CX2SA > SATDIG 03.07.09 15:35l 1152 Lines 41966 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Yaesu LVB Nova issues - Help (Gould Smith)
2. Re: The Moon is our Future (i8cvs)
3. Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO (Greg D.)
4. Re: The Moon is our Future (Jeff Davis)
5. Re: Chinease sat any news? (Alan Kung)
6. Re: How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear Transponders?
(Fabiano Moser)
7. Re: G-5500 and LVB tracker question. (Allan Saul)
8. Re: How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear Transponders?
(Simon (HB9DRV))
9. Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO (James French)
10. Re: DO-64 software support for PSK-1(T) hardware?
(Wouter Jan Ubbels)
11. Re: How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear Transponders?
(Alan P. Biddle)
12. Re: The Moon is our Future (Joe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:28:36 -0400
From: "Gould Smith" <gouldsmi@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Yaesu LVB Nova issues - Help
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, <bpn518@xxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <3DFB38B386D3451FB1C269D9252C465A@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Bennett,
The chances are the problem is in the data exchange from Nova - Comm port -
USB driver. The LVB Tracker is a data receiver and then it acts on the
data. I have an LVB Tracker running off a IBM laptop and a Compaq tower,
both using XP. I am using SatPC32 on both computers. The laptop drops the
comm link sometimes, but the tower is rock solid. A laptop, Windows, FTDI
drivers and dll to get the data to the logical com port can generate a good
bit of finger pointing when things don't work.
73,
Gould, WA4SXM
----- Original Message -----
From: <bpn518@xxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:10 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu LVB Nova issues - Help
>
> Thanks for those answering my questions on my odd 5400 motors 5600B
> control box situation.
> Now I have it working with LVB Tracker and Nova.
> But the motors stop tracking after a few minutes.
> First it seems to track fine, with motors turning as Nova instructs.
> But after a few minutes of activating and turning motors here and there,
> the motors don't seem to respond to the Nova software to move any more.
> I have to shut down Nova (getting a cannot write to file error), reboot
> the computer (otherwise when I go to Nova I get an error msg that the
> device is already connected? (but no response)), and restart Nova.? Then
> the motors will seem to track as Nova directs, but only for a few minutes
> and then motors stop working again.? I cannot tell if it is a computer
> problem (IBM T41 laptop, Win XP), or LVB (just got), or what?
> Any clues??
> Thanks for the space.
> Bennett ko2ok
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:31:18 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
To: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>, <kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx>, "AMSAT-BB"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <008701c9fb97$1ca55300$0201a8c0@xxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
----- Original Message -----
From: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
To: <kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx>; <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>; "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Moon is our Future
> We need a simple Mode-J transponder (2-meters up, 440 down).
> Low power consumption.
> Assume minimal antenna gain from the Lander (3 dBd on each antenna)
> Assume transmitter power 5-10 watts.
>
> Questions:
> What?s the link budget?
> How much gain will be needed on earth for such a setup?
> Can we build a working mockup in 1 year or less.
>
> The Moon is within Reach. Let?s Go for IT.
>
> Miles WF1F MarexMG.org
Hi Miles, WF1F
The gain of the 2 meters antenna on the Lander is 3 dBd = 5.14 dBi
Assume that the Noise Figure of the 2 meter receiver is 0.5 dB = 35 kelvin
and the sky temperature as seen by the 2 meter Lander antenna looking at
the earth is conservatively 290 kelvin but (probably more ).
The isotropic path loss earth-moon in 2 meters at an average distance of
380.000 km is 187 dB
You don't specify the IF bandwidth of your transponder so that for
simplicity I will assume that only one QSO will be possible in SSB and 3
on CW in a total BW = 2.5 KHz
With the above data the calculated Noise Floor (KTB) of the above 2 meter
Lander receiver is -139 dBm
We assume to use an earth 2 meters antenna with a gain of 13 dBi and a power
of 100 watt pep in 2 meters.
UPLINK BUDGED:
Earth TX power 100 watt.............................+ 50 dBm
Earth antenna gain............................. .............+ 13 dB
------
Earth EIRP.....................................................+ 63 dBm
2 m isotropic attenuation earth-moon..............-187 dB
------
Isoptropic power received on the moon .........- 124 dBm
2 meters Lander antenna gain.........................+ 5 dBi
------
Power applied to the 2 m Lander receiver......- 119 dBm
Lander receiver 2 m Noise Floor...................- 139 dBm
------
S/N ratio available from the Lander receiver.. + 20 dB
COMMENT:
With a 2 meter signal +20 dB above the noise floor the
70 cm TX on the Lander transponder is in condition to
supply a noise-less power between 5 to 10 watt pep to
the 70 cm TX antenna.
DOWNLINK BUDGED:
The gain of the 70 cm antenna on the Lander is 3 dBd = 5.14 dBi
and the 70 cm power is 10 watt pep
Assume that the Noise Figure of the 70 cm earth receiver is
0.5 dB = 35 kelvin and the sky temperature as seen by the 70 cm
antenna looking at the moon is 75 kelvin
Assume that the antenna gain of the 70 cm earth receiver is 18 dBi
The isotropic path loss earth-moon in 70 cm at an average distance of
380.000 km is 197 dB
With the above data the calculated Noise Floor (KTB) of the 70 cm
ground receiver is -144 dBm
Lander 70 cm TX power 10 watt...................+ 40 dBm
Lander antenna gain.......................................+ 5 dBi
------
70 cm EIRP from the moon...........................+ 45 dBm
70 cm moon-earth isotropic attenuation .........-197 dB
------
70 cm power available in to isotropic antenna -152 dBm
70 cm earth receiving antenna gain..................+ 18 dBi
------
70 cm power on input of the earth receiver.....-134 dBm
70 cm Noise Floor of the earth receiver..........-144 dBm
------
S/N ratio at the output of 70 cm receiver.......+ 10 dB
COMMENT:
Using a Lander transponder on the moon with 2 meters and
70 cm antenna's gain in the order of 5 dBi will not produce
serious problems of pointing at the earth due of libration.
If the Lander transponder is capable to develope 10 watt
pep and the IF bandwidth is very narrow in the order of
2.5 KHz it is possible to accomodate one SSB QSO or 3 CW
QSO just using the actually available TX and RX equipments for
satellite communications i.e.
For the uplink in 2 meters 100 watt pep and a 13 dBi antenna gain
For the downlink in 70 cm a receiving system with an overall Noise
Figure of 0.5 dB and antenna gain of 18 dBi
The rate of change of the frequency due of doppler shift in 2 meters
and 70 cm is very slow and easily manually compensated even into
only a 2.5 KHz bandwidth
The antenna polarization is very important because a linear signal
transmitted from the earth or from the moon by stations located in
different continents can be reversed from Vertical to Horizontal
polarization so that at least on the earth circular RHCP and LHCP
switchable polarization is recommended.
Best 73" de
i8CVS Domenico
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:43:28 -0700
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
To: <kenneth.g.ransom@xxxx.xxx>, <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>,
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W13D366D271AED51A6D2CB8A92C0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi Kenneth, et al,
Would this be a good opportunity to dust off the low data rate digital package
that was planned for Eagle? If I recall, it was to be multi-service and
operate at relatively low s/n levels. Replace the antennas, of course, and
the radio power amps. The resulting Earth station should still be quite
affordable.
Just a thought,
Greg KO6TH
> From: kenneth.g.ransom@xxxx.xxx
> To: ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:29:47 -0500
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
>
> I realize this is still very early in the dreaming stage but it would be
nice to start seeing some realistic proposals soon. How about starting with a
blank worksheet that outlines the desirements and requirements. This would
give folks some specifics to address.
>
> *LUNAR System*
> Modulation type:
> Mode:
> Power source:
> Lunar transmitter (type, output power and band):
> Lunar TX antenna (type and gain):
> Lunar receiver (type and band):
> Lunar RX antenna (type and gain):
> Lunar controller (type and capability):
>
> Delivery deadline for flight certified hardware to be launched:
> Length of time the system is expected to operate:
> Periods that the system is expected to be available for use:
>
> Once you have some general ideas as to what the items are then you will have
a good idea of the total weight, size and what it will cost to buy, build and
certify for spaceflight. It would also be nice to know what sort of station
equipment would be needed to use this lunar system.
>
> *EARTH Station*
> Description of minimal Earth station capable of operation through above
mentioned lunar system:
> Transmitter (type, output power and band):
> TX antenna (type and gain):
> Receiver (type and band):
> RX antenna (type and gain):
> Antenna tracking system:
>
> The above should allow for a realistic guess at the number of users willing
to and capable of operating through the system.
>
> Kenneth
> ________________________________________
> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf Of
MM [ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxxx
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:14 PM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
>
> High orbit launch prices
>
> It is hard to find exact values for the price per kilo to a geo-stationery
orbit. I did find a few old numbers on the web suggesting that around the
year 2000 prices were approximately 25,000 to 35,000 USD per kilo. I can only
assume it will cost more today?s 2009 dollars. If we were to build our own
Geo-stationary satellite and were able to keep the weight down to the same
weight of AO-40 (244 kilos), that would only cost us $8.5 USD million in
launching fees (plus inflation). That is not including the cost of the
satellite. A ballpark Geo-stationary amateur radio satellite and launching
fees would be in the 20-40 million-dollar range per satellite (SWAG).
>
> If you have an extra 40 million kicking around then go ahead and build us a
Geo satellite. Or if you work at Huges and can talk them into attaching a
Micro Satellite to the next geo satellite for Free great, go for it.
>
> I can?t afford that and I do not know anyone at Huges, so I am looking into
the piggyback options. Let some other company pay the big bucks for the
flight and navigation and just tag along for the ride.
>
> In this case NASA wants to send Un-manned Landers to the Moon. All we need
to do is convince them to let us attached a 1-2 kilo micro-satellite to the
moon lander and use some of their power and antennas, etc.
>
> Just look at the Huge Savings $$$
> No navigation system (we have never had much luck at building our own rocket
motors (AO-10- damaged satellite, AO-13 Miss fired and caused a premature
reentry and AO-40 Kaboom)
>
> No command and control RF links (just command between the Microsat and
existing command and control system)
>
> NASA will pay for the rocket (we hope)
>
> Assuming a good landing, there will not be any need for periodic orbital
changes.
>
> It?s true that our resources for building new satellites are very limited.
> I believe that Putting the effort into building a Moon qualified micro
satellite seems to be the most economical path to take. And will provide the
greatest return on our investment.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Miles WF1F MarexMG.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial
_QuickAdd_062009
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:34:48 +0000
From: Jeff Davis <stuckbit@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20090702153448.GA18540@xxx.xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Jul 02, 2009 at 06:48:51AM -0600, Jack K. wrote:
> communications anyway) and move forward... We can put up all the leos we
> want, but until someone makes something like B. Bruninga's cell concept
> work, we are only going to have more of the same, We don't need more of the
> same!
I couldn't agree more - we don't need more of the same.
If I want to sit back and have a two hour rag-chew with someone on the other
side of the planet I will
use Skype or my cell phone!
Dreaming about what *might* be in space is a fun exercise. Actually doing
something about it requires
sending things to LEO because reality has dictated that's as far as we can
afford to go.
How's about we use some of that frustrated *imagineering* to come up with
interesting new concepts at
LEO? We don't need any more FM repeaters buzzing overhead, but what about more
cameras downloading HD
images, scientific payloads that monitor the ongoing climate change, payloads
to study the Earth's
magnetic field, etc. etc. Our own 'Twitter' messaging network from space...?
The Apollo 13 creed of "failure is not an option" has completely infected the
brains at AMSAT and this
list. You want something at HEO or on the moon, cut a check for $15 million
dollars and let's get on
with it. Been waiting since 1996 for another AO-13 and I am getting too old to
keep waiting.
AMSAT is becoming completely irrelevant as it strives without success for the
impossible mission and
exhibits a shocking amount of leadership malfesance as it stubbornly refuses
to recognize and adapt to
realities in the launch business.
I know, I know maybe NEXT year someone rich will die and leave us a boatload
of cash. Or the bankrupt
US government will suddenly cough up a billion dollars for some orbiting
emergency communication
system. In the meantime we have to stifle the truth because it might blow yet
another *secret* deal
that's in the works and *almost* a done deal, so let's not complain publicly
and ruin it.
Heard the stories, heard the lies, got all the t-shirts and ball caps.
Whatever.
--
Jeff, KE9V
AMSAT-NA member since 1994,
Skeptic that we will ever go back to HEO since 2002
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 00:46:25 +0800
From: "Alan Kung" <alankung@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Chinease sat any news?
To: "Luc Leblanc" <lucleblanc6@xxxxxxxxx.xx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: eu-amsat@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <42DDDFDCF90747DAAE7C8B1EE1B359A4@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
First Chinese armature satellite XW-1 will be launched in Dec. this year by
CZ-4C launch vehicle.
Payloads include 70cm CW telemetry beacon, Mode J(V/U) linear transponders, FM
repeater and 1200bps AFSK Store-Forward transponders base on Pacsat protocol.
73
Alan, BA1DU
XW-1/CAS-1 project manager
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luc Leblanc" <lucleblanc6@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: <eu-amsat@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:36 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Chinease sat any news?
> >From my archives did any one get fresh news about this Chinease sat?
>
> SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-279.02 October 4 2008
> First Chinese Amateur Radio Satellite to be launched in June 2009
>
> AMSAT News Service Bulletin 279.02
> From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD.
> October 5, 2008
> To All RADIO AMATEURS
> BID: $ANS-279.02
>
> Michael Chen, BD5RV/4, reports that he recently received an update from
Alan,
> BA1DU, on the progress of the first Chinese amateur satellite. Things are
now
> going smoothly. This satellite was formerly named CAS-1 and is now XW-1. It
> carries a beacon and three cross band transponders: FM, linear, and digital.
>
> The satellite is planned to be launched into a Sun synchronous orbit in June
> 2009 by a CZ-2C rocket in Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in North China.
>
> [ANS thanks Michael, BD5RV/4, for the above information]
>
> /EX
>
>
> "-"
>
>
> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
> Skype VE2DWE
> www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
> WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:56:01 +0100
From: Fabiano Moser <fabianomoser@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear
Transponders?
To: amsat-bb <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<bf2deb8f0907030156p2ea3fc37s656372ff9bd08e08@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear friends,
Thank you very much for the answers, help me a lot and now I have better
idea how operators does.
Now I come back to other situation when I do doppler control automatic by
Hamradiodeluxe:
Let make an example at VO-52 using middle of transponder.
While the software is doing correction in the two VFO?s when I start to TX
my signal are always above or below the frequency suggested by computer, and
I need to put OFF uplink adjust at HRD and do by manual to go higher or
lower in Uplink to listen my self. Okay I know the UHF doppler is higher
than VHF, but I presume that HRD always adjust the better adjustment for UP
and DOWN.
At FM satellites this not happen
This make me confused becuase if I have new kepler downloaded, why my audio
always comes above or below the downlink who Hamradiodeluxe adjust on my
FT-847.
73
Fabiano Moser CR7/PY5RX
ARISS-PORTUGAL (Amateur Radio on the International Space Station)
Representative at Teleconference and Portugal Telebridge Coordinator.
AMRAD/AMSAT-CT
http://www.amrad.pt/ariss.php
2009/7/2 i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fabiano Moser" <fabianomoser@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "amsat-bb" <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:19 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear Transponders?
>
>
> Dear friends,
>
> We know that some Satellite Operators use diferent system to doppler
> control.
>
> For Linear Transponder
> 1) Adjust uplink and downlink automatic by CAT? (Not always woks, some
> times
> I?m up or down from the computer adjust)
> 2) Adjust uplink and downlink manual
> 3) Keep Uplink fixed and adjust only the Downlink frequency.
>
> What is the more indicate method to use?
> FT-847 have knob to adjust Uplink without change downlink VFO, and I?m
> using
> it to keep my voice in downlink at same downlink much I can.
>
> But I know some operators use fixed uplink.
>
> How you do?
>
> --
>
> Hi Fabiano, CR7/PY5RX
>
> My preferred metod (from OSCAR-6 to AO40) is to adjust only the Uplink
> frequency in order to keep my voice in downlink as clear as possible
> exactly
> as you actually do manually.
> If the station in contact with me moves up or down I invite the operator to
> move the VFO of his TX to come again in my constant receiving frequency.
>
> 73" de
> i8CVS Domenico
>
>
>
>
>
--
73
Fabiano Moser CR7/PY5RX
ARISS-PORTUGAL (Amateur Radio on the International Space Station)
Representative at Teleconference and Portugal Telebridge Coordinator.
AMRAD/AMSAT-CT
http://www.amrad.pt/ariss.php
"There is no great talent without great will. (Honor? de Balzac)"
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:12:45 +0200
From: Allan Saul <allan@xxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: G-5500 and LVB tracker question.
To: "'racer5039'" <racer5039@x.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<693682E7994243418EFDBB1692138DAC019B17853881@xxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Howard and Marv,
I had exactly the same problem. The issue revolved around the
7806 regulator the is used in the G-5500 control box that
supplied the 6V DC to the position feedback potentiometers
on the rotators. If you monitor the output voltage of the regulator,
you will find they drift down considerably as the box warms up.
Maybe they had a bad batch.
I replaced the 7806 with a LM317T set for 6V and that solved
the problem.
73's
Allan Saul ZS1LS
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Long [mailto:howard@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx
Sent: 30 June 2009 10:09 AM
To: 'racer5039'; amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: G-5500 and LVB tracker question.
Hi Marv.
If you have the LCD fitted, do both the left and right Az/El readings move
too?
I am assuming you don't have the problem if the LVB Tracker is unplugged.
73, Howard G6LVB
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of racer5039
Sent: 30 June 2009 00:13
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] G-5500 and LVB tracker question.
I have the G-5500 and a LVB Tracker on my antenna set. I have noticed that
when the pair are just setting there the LVB tracker will loose its place.
By that I mean if the G-5500 box is at 180* the LVB will start out at 180
but as it sets there it will soon be at 178, 174, 172 and so on. I also
noted the meter on the g-5500 is going down too.
Where do I start looking ?
Marv
N0FJP
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:31:47 +0200
From: "Simon \(HB9DRV\)" <simon@xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear
Transponders?
To: "Fabiano Moser" <fabianomoser@xxxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb"
<AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <FC9475EF57964A78B2701E2CEB601CC5@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabiano Moser" <fabianomoser@xxxxx.xxx>
> This make me confused becuase if I have new kepler downloaded, why my
> audio
> always comes above or below the downlink who Hamradiodeluxe adjust on my
> FT-847.
HRD 5.0 is better - but in general you'll have to adjust the TX frequency
using XIT as the transponder (and your radio) is usually not exactly on
frequency.
With my TS-2000 on F_29 I have to TX 2.5kHz lower, to do this I use the XIT.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV
www.ham-radio-deluxe.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:06:59 -0400
From: James French <w8iss@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
To: "Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY]"
<kenneth.g.ransom@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <1246615619.22567.74.camel@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
We have been discussing building and packaging a system that is
SEPARATE from the rest of the landing craft that would take up weight
and not supply ANY benefit to any mission support.
What if we change that to from just asking for a FREE ride to helping
provide mission specific support ALONG with supplying the band width
for our needs? If we could build a package that would support the
PRIMARY mission and then could be switched over for our needs during or
after the mission, don't you think that we MAY get a better
consideration for a FREE ride for these ideas?
Domenico, I8CVS, brings up a good point about IF bandwidth also.
1) How many QSOs do we want to be able to have on this?
FM would be a HUGE waste of resources (even though a modulated CW
beacon may be an idea to entice some of the FM users).
a) 2 SBB/6 CW?
b) 5 SSB/15 CW?
c) 10 SSB/30 CW?
2) How much electrical power do we need to supply for each of these
amounts?
3) IS it feasible to have that many or do we have to limit ourselves?
Kenneth brings up good points also.
1) How LONG do we PLAN this to be usable?
2) Power source - solar? nuclear? battery (even though I don't
think they would last very long, still have to consider them here)?
3) WHAT do we need to do to certify this package for flight?
4) HOW many do we need to build to get ONE certified as flight ready
hardware?
5) How do we control it?
6) How complicated do we want to go?
As far as the Earth station, the bigger the better as always. But
anything above 23cm would be feasible EVEN for that antenna restricted
home station that is becoming the norm now a days.
45 element 1.2GHz antenna:
Boom Length: 144 inches
Weight: 5 pounds
Gain: 20dbi
3db Beamwidth: 16 degrees
52 element 2.4GHz loop antenna:
Boom Length: 96 inches
Weight: 3 pounds
Gain: 21 dbi
3db Beamwidth: 14 degrees
45 element 3.4GHz antenna:
Boom Length: 60 inches
Weight: 1.5 pounds
Gain: 20dbi
3db Beamwidth: 16 degrees
These are figures that I have handy for antennas I already have. Each of
these antennas can be had from Directive Systems for about one hundred
and fifty dollars each as a kit, more if you want it already assembled.
I give these as EXAMPLES to help out. Preamps and amplifiers are extra.
But even those are cheap if you want to tinker some. I found a 75 watt
2.4GHz amplifier for 20 dollars at Dayton this year that would give me
about half that if I run it on 12 volts instead of 26 volts.
1.2GHz/2.4GHz antennas: 300 dollars
1.2GHz preamp: 50 dollars
2.4GHz amplifier: 25 dollars
sequencer: 60 dollars
1.2GHz transverter: 100 dollars (W1GHZ type)
2.4GHz transverter: 100 dollars (W1GHZ type)
Misc. parts: 100 dollars
TOTAL: 735 dollars (+/-)
This is presuming that the station ALREADY has a 2m SSB radio
and no homebrewing other than putting together the W1GHZ transverters,
sequencer, 2.4GHZ amplifier, and antenna mounting hardware. So cost CAN
be kept down to about 1000 dollars, maybe even less than the 735 dollar
figure if the station is very creative (possibly around the 500 dollar
mark then).
If the plan stays at using 2m and 70cms, antennas do get bulkier and
harder to handle for teardown and setup. ( I know - I am preaching to
the choir here...<L>)
Figures are based on what I already have handy, so I may have to add or
change depending on what bands are used.
James W8ISS
=====
On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 21:29 -0500, Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS
TECHNOLOGY] wrote:
> I realize this is still very early in the dreaming stage but it would be
> nice to start seeing some realistic proposals soon. How about starting with
> a blank worksheet that outlines the desirements and requirements. This would
> give folks some specifics to address.
>
> *LUNAR System*
> Modulation type:
> Mode:
> Power source:
> Lunar transmitter (type, output power and band):
> Lunar TX antenna (type and gain):
> Lunar receiver (type and band):
> Lunar RX antenna (type and gain):
> Lunar controller (type and capability):
>
> Delivery deadline for flight certified hardware to be launched:
> Length of time the system is expected to operate:
> Periods that the system is expected to be available for use:
>
> Once you have some general ideas as to what the items are then you will have
> a good idea of the total weight, size and what it will cost to buy, build
and
> certify for spaceflight. It would also be nice to know what sort of station
> equipment would be needed to use this lunar system.
>
> *EARTH Station*
> Description of minimal Earth station capable of operation through above
> mentioned lunar system:
> Transmitter (type, output power and band):
> TX antenna (type and gain):
> Receiver (type and band):
> RX antenna (type and gain):
> Antenna tracking system:
>
> The above should allow for a realistic guess at the number of users
> willing to and capable of operating through the system.
>
> Kenneth
> ________________________________________
> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf
> Of MM [ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxxx
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:14 PM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
>
> High orbit launch prices
>
> It is hard to find exact values for the price per kilo to a geo-stationery
> orbit. I did find a few old numbers on the web suggesting that around the
> year 2000 prices were approximately 25,000 to 35,000 USD per kilo. I can
> only assume it will cost more today?s 2009 dollars. If we were to build
> our own Geo-stationary satellite and were able to keep the weight down to
> the same weight of AO-40 (244 kilos), that would only cost us $8.5 USD
> million in launching fees (plus inflation). That is not including the cost
> of the satellite. A ballpark Geo-stationary amateur radio satellite and
> launching fees would be in the 20-40 million-dollar range per satellite
(SWAG).
>
> If you have an extra 40 million kicking around then go ahead and build us a
> Geo satellite. Or if you work at Huges and can talk them into attaching a
> Micro Satellite to the next geo satellite for Free great, go for it.
>
> I can?t afford that and I do not know anyone at Huges, so I am looking into
> the piggyback options. Let some other company pay the big bucks for the
flight
> and navigation and just tag along for the ride.
>
> In this case NASA wants to send Un-manned Landers to the Moon. All we need
to
> do is convince them to let us attached a 1-2 kilo micro-satellite to the
moon
> lander and use some of their power and antennas, etc.
>
> Just look at the Huge Savings $$$
> No navigation system (we have never had much luck at building our own rocket
> motors (AO-10- damaged satellite, AO-13 Miss fired and caused a premature
> reentry and AO-40 Kaboom)
>
> No command and control RF links (just command between the Microsat and
> existing command and control system)
>
> NASA will pay for the rocket (we hope)
>
> Assuming a good landing, there will not be any need for periodic orbital
> changes.
>
> It?s true that our resources for building new satellites are very limited.
> I believe that Putting the effort into building a Moon qualified micro
> satellite seems to be the most economical path to take. And will provide
> the greatest return on our investment.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Miles WF1F MarexMG.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:29:42 +0200
From: Wouter Jan Ubbels <wjubbels@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: DO-64 software support for PSK-1(T) hardware?
To: "Amsat-Bb@xxxxx. Org" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<af4c9b1b0907030329s3a9e80b4m67cf9f060b778fb0@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Greg,
actually, when we developed RASCAL, we had PSK-1 (or another KISS TNC that
could do PSK) support in mind. However, PSK TNC's such as the PSK-1 have
become a scarce item:) Furthermore, COM port access in JAVA can be tricky
sometimes, especially when you want to preserve the cross platform
capability.
In the meantime, I had started work on a 1200bd BPSK soundcard demod in JAVA
(contrary to the PSK-1, PC's with soundcards are abundant in today's ham
shacks hi). The Warbler software was my first try at this. In the end we
decided to integrate this demod with RASCAL and abandon the KISS TNC support
in favour of the soundcard solution. So, unfortunately, KISS TNC support is
not included in RASCAL.
73 on behalf of the DO-64 / Delfi-C3 team,
Wouter Jan PE4WJ
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 05:39:30 -0500
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How you do DOPPLER correction in Linear
Transponders?
To: "'Fabiano Moser'" <fabianomoser@xxxxx.xxx>, "'amsat-bb'"
<AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <25AD6C45613042AD8AEA1F1CDF798129@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Fabiano,
FM reception is much less sensitive to slight frequency errors than SSB.
Just because of the way it works, you can be a 2-3 KHz off frequency, and it
will sound exactly the same.
On the other hand, if you have a good ear, you can hear errors of 20 Hz, and
certainly 50-100 Hz with SSB. Now, consider that there are slight frequency
shifts in the satellite transponders due to temperature changes, aging, etc.
Also, the Keplerians are good approximations, but only approximations. As a
result, you will need to make slight adjustments occasionally. I tune off
to the end of the passband, give a quick test transmission while I talk
myself on to the correct frequency, and that correction is good for the
pass, and probably all the passes that day. SATPC32 and Ham Radio Deluxe
both have ways to do this. The correction day to day is usually less than
100 Hz, and over a long time a few hundred Hz. Because of its lack of power
regulation, AO-7 is particularly bad about this. After you have done it a
couple of times, it only takes a few seconds, and makes operating much more
pleasant for both you and the stations you talk with.
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:59:19 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Moon is our Future
To: i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
Cc: "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>,
kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4A4DE487.6000009@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
This is all good except for one thing,
The IF window is 10 times too small.
Look at the mess the FM single channel birds are with their tiny surface
foot print. Imagine now a whole hemisphere worth of people trying to
use it at once. The thing would be useless
i8cvs wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "MM" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
>To: <kg4zlb@xxxxx.xxx>; <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>; "Jack K." <kd1pe.1@xxxxx.xxx>
>Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:31 PM
>Subject: [amsat-bb] The Moon is our Future
>
>
>
>>We need a simple Mode-J transponder (2-meters up, 440 down).
>>Low power consumption.
>>Assume minimal antenna gain from the Lander (3 dBd on each antenna)
>>Assume transmitter power 5-10 watts.
>>
>>Questions:
>>What?s the link budget?
>>How much gain will be needed on earth for such a setup?
>>Can we build a working mockup in 1 year or less.
>>
>>The Moon is within Reach. Let?s Go for IT.
>>
>>Miles WF1F MarexMG.org
>>
>>
>
>Hi Miles, WF1F
>
>The gain of the 2 meters antenna on the Lander is 3 dBd = 5.14 dBi
>Assume that the Noise Figure of the 2 meter receiver is 0.5 dB = 35 kelvin
>and the sky temperature as seen by the 2 meter Lander antenna looking at
>the earth is conservatively 290 kelvin but (probably more ).
>The isotropic path loss earth-moon in 2 meters at an average distance of
>380.000 km is 187 dB
>You don't specify the IF bandwidth of your transponder so that for
>simplicity I will assume that only one QSO will be possible in SSB and 3
>on CW in a total BW = 2.5 KHz
>With the above data the calculated Noise Floor (KTB) of the above 2 meter
>Lander receiver is -139 dBm
>We assume to use an earth 2 meters antenna with a gain of 13 dBi and a power
>of 100 watt pep in 2 meters.
>
>UPLINK BUDGED:
>
>Earth TX power 100 watt.............................+ 50 dBm
>Earth antenna gain............................. .............+ 13 dB
> ------
>Earth EIRP.....................................................+ 63 dBm
>2 m isotropic attenuation earth-moon..............-187 dB
> ------
>Isoptropic power received on the moon .........- 124 dBm
>2 meters Lander antenna gain.........................+ 5 dBi
> ------
>Power applied to the 2 m Lander receiver......- 119 dBm
>Lander receiver 2 m Noise Floor...................- 139 dBm
> ------
>S/N ratio available from the Lander receiver.. + 20 dB
>
>COMMENT:
>With a 2 meter signal +20 dB above the noise floor the
>70 cm TX on the Lander transponder is in condition to
>supply a noise-less power between 5 to 10 watt pep to
>the 70 cm TX antenna.
>
>DOWNLINK BUDGED:
>
>The gain of the 70 cm antenna on the Lander is 3 dBd = 5.14 dBi
>and the 70 cm power is 10 watt pep
>Assume that the Noise Figure of the 70 cm earth receiver is
>0.5 dB = 35 kelvin and the sky temperature as seen by the 70 cm
>antenna looking at the moon is 75 kelvin
>Assume that the antenna gain of the 70 cm earth receiver is 18 dBi
>The isotropic path loss earth-moon in 70 cm at an average distance of
>380.000 km is 197 dB
>With the above data the calculated Noise Floor (KTB) of the 70 cm
>ground receiver is -144 dBm
>
>Lander 70 cm TX power 10 watt...................+ 40 dBm
>Lander antenna gain.......................................+ 5 dBi
> ------
>70 cm EIRP from the moon...........................+ 45 dBm
>70 cm moon-earth isotropic attenuation .........-197 dB
> ------
>70 cm power available in to isotropic antenna -152 dBm
>70 cm earth receiving antenna gain..................+ 18 dBi
> ------
>70 cm power on input of the earth receiver.....-134 dBm
>70 cm Noise Floor of the earth receiver..........-144 dBm
> ------
>S/N ratio at the output of 70 cm receiver.......+ 10 dB
>
>COMMENT:
>Using a Lander transponder on the moon with 2 meters and
>70 cm antenna's gain in the order of 5 dBi will not produce
>serious problems of pointing at the earth due of libration.
>If the Lander transponder is capable to develope 10 watt
>pep and the IF bandwidth is very narrow in the order of
>2.5 KHz it is possible to accomodate one SSB QSO or 3 CW
>QSO just using the actually available TX and RX equipments for
>satellite communications i.e.
>For the uplink in 2 meters 100 watt pep and a 13 dBi antenna gain
>For the downlink in 70 cm a receiving system with an overall Noise
>Figure of 0.5 dB and antenna gain of 18 dBi
>The rate of change of the frequency due of doppler shift in 2 meters
>and 70 cm is very slow and easily manually compensated even into
>only a 2.5 KHz bandwidth
>The antenna polarization is very important because a linear signal
>transmitted from the earth or from the moon by stations located in
>different continents can be reversed from Vertical to Horizontal
>polarization so that at least on the earth circular RHCP and LHCP
>switchable polarization is recommended.
>
>Best 73" de
>
>i8CVS Domenico
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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>
>
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------------------------------
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