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CX2SA > SATDIG 19.04.09 05:42l 1308 Lines 44061 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Elk set-up [was: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic
for sats?] (Bill Dzurilla)
2. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(Oscar Diez)
3. Re: UT1FG/MM (Joe KI4TZ)
4. Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student
built satellite Violet (Nick)
5. Re: UT1FG/MM (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
6. Re: Elk set-up [was: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz
logperiodic for sats?] (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
7. Re: L and S band antennas (Greg D.)
8. Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student
built satellite Violet (Bob Bruninga )
9. (no subject) (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
10. Re: Tuning (James Duffey)
11. Re: (no subject) (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:11:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Elk set-up [was: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log
periodic for sats?]
To: "n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "nss@xxx.xxxx
<nss@xxx.xxx>, "Rafael Valdez G." <rafavaldez@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <686194.94510.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have ordered an Elk. Any set-up tips? I see they recommend using a PVC T-
connector to attach the antenna to the mast. This aims the antenna parallel
to the ground. How to mount it for a fixed 20 degree elevation?
Also, as this antenna has only one feedline, is there any way to mount preamps
for both 70cm and 2m?
Thanks and 73, Bill NZ5N
--- On Sat, 4/18/09, Rafael Valdez G. <rafavaldez@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> From: Rafael Valdez G. <rafavaldez@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
> To: "n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx " <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx "
<billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>, "nss@xxx.xxx " <nss@xxx.xxx>
> Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx " <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Date: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 12:04 AM
> Defiinetely your solution for hoa is the elk as far a I
> understand you can have a Tv. Antenna which te elk can
> fairly look like....
>
> I am a true believer of Elk' eficiency and
> portability...
>
> GL 73's
>
> XE2RV
> VUCC 164 satellite
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:52:03
> To: <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>; <nss@xxx.xxx>
> Cc: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>;
> <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log
> periodic for sats?
>
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> Your comments about construction, location, etc., are
> right one, based on my experiences here. I actually move
> from one side of the house to the other depending on whether
> passes are to my east or west.
>
> A couple of other things affect the performance I'm
> getting, too. One of the most important is that my decision
> to continue using a handheld antenna means I have less than
> six feet of coax from the radio to the antenna. I'm
> still getting some loss, but not nearly as much as I'd
> get by putting antennas in the attic and running much longer
> feed lines to them. Another is a little trick K4DLG in
> Florida passed along to me a while back.
>
> He has a log periodic for HF, and the coax runs from the
> antenna feedpoint along the main boom to the back of the
> antenna before heading down to the shack. Taking that lead,
> he did the same thing with the Elk he bought. Doing so
> mitigated any significant changes in SWR due to moving the
> antenna around while hand-holding it during a pass. I tried
> it here and have observed the same thing. For me, at this
> location (inside or out), 8 degrees of elevation was the
> best I could hope for with the Arrow I had. In all the
> months I used that antenna, I made only a few contacts when
> a given satellite was below 8 degrees here. When I started
> using the Elk, that "bottom line" immediately
> dropped to 4 degrees. And when I tried K4DLG's
> suggestion of running the feedline parallel to the boom, the
> 4 degrees dropped to 3.
>
> And, as you point out, depending on the location and
> relative path of a given pass, I can work even lower and
> make contacts, as I have with some stations in Europe on
> AO-7.
>
> All of that being said, I also still lose the satellites
> due to obstruction, as you have observed with your Arrow.
> When it comes to the FM LEO satellites, only the ISS
> transmits back to us using more than milliwatt power levels.
> I know that AO-51 is capable of 1 watt or more, but it
> generally is not configured to transmit at those levels.
> Drew or someone, please correct me if that statement is
> inaccurate. The published stats on AO-27 report a nominal
> output of 500 mW, and SO-50 is reported to operate with a
> nominal 250 mW output. I believe both of them also use
> quarter-wave vertical antennas, which are 0-gain.
>
> Given those power levels, it doesn't take much to
> begin affecting reception, especially for handheld stations.
> From here at my home, that quarter of azimuth from 90
> degrees to 180 degrees is my worst. For really consistent
> reception in that part of the sky, I need upwards of 30
> degrees elevation when I'm standing outside at ground
> level. On the second floor of the house, I get reception
> good enough to facilitate contacts with about 15 degrees of
> elevation at azimuths from 90 degrees to about 130. I still
> need close to 30 from azimuth 130 to 180 no matter where I
> try to operate from - in the yard or upstairs.
>
> I hope you're able to come up with a solution for your
> location that works even better than you expect!
>
> 73 to all,
>
> Tim - N3TL
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla
> <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>: --------------
>
>
> >
> > Tim,
> > Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats.
> I think the performance of indoor antennas must be heavily
> dependent on the location of the shack and the construction
> materials used on the house. I moved my Eggbeater and ground
> plane to the attic from outside and noticed a sharp drop in
> performance. Also tried the Arrow here inside the shack and
> it did not do too well. And noticed that, even outside in
> the yard with the Arrow, I lose the sats at low elevation,
> when they drop below the level of nearby roof lines. On my
> DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was
> unobstructed view over the ocean, I could easily make
> contacts with less than 1 degree of elevation with the same
> HT and
> > Arrow.
> >
> > 73, Bill NZ5N
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> >
> > > From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx > Subject: Re:
> [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic
> for
> > sats?
> > > To: "Joe" , billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
> > > Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
> > > Bill and all,
> > >
> > > Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7
> Mode B
> > > Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk
> on the
> > > second floor of my house, pointing it to the
> northeast at a
> > > spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7
> was at
> > > roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here.
> > >
> > > I wish I had decided to try these low-angle
> passes months
> > > ago!
> > >
> > > 73 to all,
> > >
> > > Tim - N3TL
> > > -------------- Original message from Joe
> > > : --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > > You'd be amazed at what you can do with
> an indoor
> > > yagi also..
> > > >
> > > > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a
> photo
> > > tripod that sat right
> > > > next to me on the floor in the shack,
> > > >
> > > > Joe WB9SBD
> > > >
> > > > Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> > > > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew
> version of
> > > the Elk duo bander? After reading through the
> prior thread
> > > about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and
> other omnis,
> > > I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners
> Association
> > > and put up
> > > > a small beam.
> > > > >
> > > > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> > > > >
> > > > >73, Bill NZ5N
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions
> expressed
> > > are those of the author.
> > > > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to
> support the
> > > amateur satellite program!
> > > > >Subscription settings:
> > > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions
> expressed are
> > > those of the author.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support
> the
> > > amateur satellite program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> > > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are
> those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings:
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those
> of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite program!
> Subscription settings:
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> <http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:36:17 +0200
From: "Oscar Diez" <hbottiki@xxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000c01c9c05c$f181f540$0b01a8c0@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Bill,
for a homemade "Elk" style log-perodic antenna covering both the 2m and 70cm
bands see this homemade antenna (with bilingual instructions in German and
English) link:
http://www.radio-foto.net/radio/lpdadual.pdf
The text above is mostly self explaining and very simple and cheap to
construct with some basic tools on hand.
This antenna is slightly larger than the Elk (15 inch longer boom length)
which results even in a higher gain then the original Elk design. Maybe this
gives some desired extra punch for eventual indoor operation.
Good luck,
Oscar DJ0MY
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:54:50 -0400
From: Joe KI4TZ <jbarkley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: UT1FG/MM
To: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Cc: AMSATBBS <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <49EA300A.8000606@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> Hey Angelo,
>
> Have you - or has anyone - ever received a QSL from Yuri?
>
> Having the exotic maritime grids in the log would be nice, I suppose - but
they don't help with any awards or anything unless the operator will provide a
QSL card. My understanding is that he's next-to impossible to get QSLs from.
He's not unique in that regard, but I just can't get too fired up about
working guys from grids that I likely won't ever get confirmed.
>
> Any hints on getting a card from him will be very helpful.
>
> 73 to all,
>
> Tim - N3TL
> -------------- Original message from "Angelo Glorioso (n5uxt)"
<n5uxt@xxxxxxx.xxx>: --------------
>
>
>
>> Good Morning,
>>
>>
>> Worked UT1FG/MM in GM24 on FO29 08:14am local time.
>>
>>
>> Keep a look out for him.
>>
>>
>> 73 de Angelo
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
Hi Tim,
I worked Yuri during last season on 6 meter es and got 4 or 5 grids
confirmed.
I went direct via qrz address.
73,
Joe
KI4TZ
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:59:14 -0500
From: "Nick" <quadpugh@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell
University's student built satellite Violet
To: "'Yoon Ho Lee'" <yl482@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: PaulDarby@xxx.xxxx 'Ryan Leblanc' <ral2687@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, 'Lee
Landry' <IEEE.landry@xxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx Mancuso'
<mancuso.christopher@xxxxx.xxx>, 'Prathamesh Chawan'
<prathameshchawan@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <027601c9c060$26d9a140$748ce3c0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Danny
The major factor on how small a signal you can receive is controlled by the
noise coming into the antenna. There are many articles written about thermal
noise. But all objects above absolute 0 deg k produce noise. See
http://vk1od.net/rx/noise/noise.htm. It turns out the temperature of the
antenna is the temperature of the object it is pointing to. If you are
pointing to cold sky at 400 MHz the temperature is about 30 deg k. If your
antenna points to the horizon the temperature is 290 deg k. To overcome the
effect of the thermal noise you will have to raise the transmitter power by
several db to obtain the same signal to noise ratio. Read the article and go
to the spread sheet an increase the antenna temperatures and look at the
change in the link margin. Remember ever 3 db in link margin you improve you
could reduce your transmitter power by 50%. Notice the spread sheet convert
all elements in the receiver into the equivalent noise temperatures and the
system temperature!
s is the sum of all the noise temperatures. The power at the antenna in watts
= Pn=kb*T*B where kb is Boltzmann's constant (kb=1.3806504?10?23
joule/Kelvin) and T is the absolute temperature of the resistor in K B is the
bandwidth in Hz. Your satellite must produce a signal that is higher than the
thermal plus 9.6 db because you chose GMSK modulation.
Hope this helps
nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Yoon Ho Lee [mailto:yl482@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:16 PM
To: Nick
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Chris Mancuso; Lee Landry; PaulDarby@xxx.xxxx
Prathamesh Chawan; Ryan Leblanc
Subject: Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student built
satellite Violet
Our satellite is actually a nanosat, with 50cm by 50cm by 60cm (W x L x
H), so we do have enough space to use two patch antennas.
Would you like to explain more about the receiver noise temperature ?
I'm having a hard time estimating how much effect the noise temperature
has on a link.
Thank you.
-Danny
Nick wrote:
> Hi Danny
> You did a good job on the link budget. Jan King is the author and he will
> comment if you send him a copy. Here are my comments.
>
>
> 1. Patch antennas are hard to put on a cubesat because of their
> size.
> 2. If you fly dipoles they have very deep lobes of the end of the
> ends and will cause deep
> fades when the antenna alimented off the ends.
> 3. The ground antenna when at 5 degrees elevation look into the
> warm earth i.e. 290 deg K
>
> For a reality check go copy AO 51. Copy the telemetry beacon. It uses FSK
> modulation and if you chose GMSK it is several db improvement over FSK. The
> antenna are turnstile with 2 db gain circular polarized. AO-51 keeps the
> antennas nadir pointing so there is very little fading due to polarization
> misalignments and this is a challenge on 10 cm cube.
>
> If you make it to the cube sat conference at San Louis Obispo look me up I
> am 6 ft tall with red hair and 64 years old.
>
> Good luck
> nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yoon Ho Lee [mailto:yl482@xxxxxxx.xxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:18 AM
> To: Nick
> Subject: Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student built
> satellite Violet
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> It seems like the listserv denied my attachment. Here are the files.
> Thank you for your interest and help!
>
> -Danny
>
> Nick wrote:
>
>> Hi Danny
>> I will review your link budget but it was not attached to your email.
>>
>> Please reply directly to this email off list
>>
>> nick
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-edu-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-edu-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx
>> On Behalf Of Yoon Ho Lee
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:12 PM
>> To: amsat-edu@xxxxx.xxx
>> Subject: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student
>> built satellite Violet
>>
>> Dear whom it may concern,
>>
>> I'm Danny Lee from Cornell University's student built satellite team
>> Violet, working on Electrical Subsystem, specifically Telemetry and
>>
> Control.
>
>> For those of you familiar with CUSat, our team is under the same UNP
>> program, on the 6th competition.
>>
>> I have worked out a preliminary link budget from limited resources and
>> knowledge, and I would greatly appreciate any input from experts out
>>
> there.
>
>> Please read the note before proceeding to the spreadsheet.
>>
>> Thank you very much in advance, and I look forward to your input.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Danny Lee
>> Electrical Subsystem,
>> Team Violet,
>> Cornell University
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:07:05 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: UT1FG/MM
To: Joe KI4TZ <jbarkley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSATBBS <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<041820092007.8163.49EA32E90004B12500001FE322193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C0
4040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thanks Joe. I appreciate that information very much!
73,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Joe KI4TZ <jbarkley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>: -----
---------
> n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> > Hey Angelo,
> >
> > Have you - or has anyone - ever received a QSL from Yuri?
> > > Having the exotic maritime grids in the log would be nice, I suppose -
but they don't help with any awards or anything unless the operator will
provide a QSL card. My understanding is that he's next-to impossible to get
QSLs from. He's not unique in that regard, but I just can't get too fired up
about working
> guys from grids that I likely won't ever get confirmed.
> >
> > Any hints on getting a card from him will be very helpful.
> >
> > 73 to all,
> >
> > Tim - N3TL > -------------- Original message from "Angelo Glorioso
(n5uxt)"
> : --------------
> >
> >
> >
> >> Good Morning,
> >>
> >>
> >> Worked UT1FG/MM in GM24 on FO29 08:14am local time.
> >>
> >>
> >> Keep a look out for him.
> >>
> >>
> >> 73 de Angelo
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> Hi Tim,
> I worked Yuri during last season on 6 meter es and got 4 or 5 grids
> confirmed.
> I went direct via qrz address.
> 73,
> Joe
> KI4TZ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:15:50 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Elk set-up [was: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz
logperiodic for sats?]
To: billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxxx "nss@xxx.xxxx <nss@xxx.xxx>, "Rafael Valdez
G." <rafavaldez@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, Bill Dzurilla
<billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<041820092015.19338.49EA34F500087EEB00004B8A22193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey Bill,
Based on my experience with it when using the Elk as a handheld antenna, I
believe I'd at least try the trick of using a 90-degree connector at the
feedpoint and running your coax along the boom to the back of the antenna. By
the way - the hardware/PVC necessary for mast mounting comes with the antenna.
For a hand-holding handle, I needed only a few feet of PVC and one T
connector, about 40 cents worth of parts. You shouldn't need anything for
mast-mounting.
I don't have an answer for your preamp question because, as I recall, you're
using one full-duplex radio. I'm using two radios and a duplexer here, and
would opt for preamps at the radios. I know that's not as effective as mast-
mounting, but it would probably have to suffice. I'm sure someone else will
provide some input on this.
Best of luck with it all.
73,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>: ---
-----------
> I have ordered an Elk. Any set-up tips? I see they recommend using a PVC T-
connector to attach the antenna to the mast. This aims the antenna parallel
> to the ground. How to mount it for a fixed 20 degree elevation?
> Also, as this antenna has only one feedline, is there any way to mount
preamps
> for both 70cm and 2m?
>
> Thanks and 73, Bill NZ5N
>
>
> --- On Sat, 4/18/09, Rafael Valdez G. wrote:
>
> > From: Rafael Valdez G. > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style
14/435 mhz log periodic for
> sats? > To: "n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx " , "billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx "
> , "nss@xxx.xxx "
> > Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx "
> > Date: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 12:04 AM
> > Defiinetely your solution for hoa is the elk as far a I
> > understand you can have a Tv. Antenna which te elk can
> > fairly look like....
> >
> > I am a true believer of Elk' eficiency and
> > portability...
> >
> > GL 73's
> >
> > XE2RV
> > VUCC 164 satellite
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >
> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:52:03
> > To: ;
> > Cc: ;
> >
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log
> > periodic for sats?
> >
> >
> > Hey Bill,
> >
> > Your comments about construction, location, etc., are
> > right one, based on my experiences here. I actually move
> > from one side of the house to the other depending on whether
> > passes are to my east or west.
> >
> > A couple of other things affect the performance I'm
> > getting, too. One of the most important is that my decision
> > to continue using a handheld antenna means I have less than
> > six feet of coax from the radio to the antenna. I'm
> > still getting some loss, but not nearly as much as I'd
> > get by putting antennas in the attic and running much longer
> > feed lines to them. Another is a little trick K4DLG in
> > Florida passed along to me a while back.
> >
> > He has a log periodic for HF, and the coax runs from the
> > antenna feedpoint along the main boom to the back of the
> > antenna before heading down to the shack. Taking that lead,
> > he did the same thing with the Elk he bought. Doing so
> > mitigated any significant changes in SWR due to moving the
> > antenna around while hand-holding it during a pass. I tried
> > it here and have observed the same thing. For me, at this
> > location (inside or out), 8 degrees of elevation was the
> > best I could hope for with the Arrow I had. In all the
> > months I used that antenna, I made only a few contacts when
> > a given satellite was below 8 degrees here. When I started
> > using the Elk, that "bottom line" immediately
> > dropped to 4 degrees. And when I tried K4DLG's
> > suggestion of running the feedline parallel to the boom, the
> > 4 degrees dropped to 3.
> >
> > And, as you point out, depending on the location and
> > relative path of a given pass, I can work even lower and
> > make contacts, as I have with some stations in Europe on
> > AO-7.
> >
> > All of that being said, I also still lose the satellites
> > due to obstruction, as you have observed with your Arrow.
> > When it comes to the FM LEO satellites, only the ISS
> > transmits back to us using more than milliwatt power levels.
> > I know that AO-51 is capable of 1 watt or more, but it
> > generally is not configured to transmit at those levels.
> > Drew or someone, please correct me if that statement is
> > inaccurate. The published stats on AO-27 report a nominal
> > output of 500 mW, and SO-50 is reported to operate with a
> > nominal 250 mW output. I believe both of them also use
> > quarter-wave vertical antennas, which are 0-gain.
> >
> > Given those power levels, it doesn't take much to
> > begin affecting reception, especially for handheld stations.
> > From here at my home, that quarter of azimuth from 90
> > degrees to 180 degrees is my worst. For really consistent
> > reception in that part of the sky, I need upwards of 30
> > degrees elevation when I'm standing outside at ground
> > level. On the second floor of the house, I get reception
> > good enough to facilitate contacts with about 15 degrees of
> > elevation at azimuths from 90 degrees to about 130. I still
> > need close to 30 from azimuth 130 to 180 no matter where I
> > try to operate from - in the yard or upstairs.
> >
> > I hope you're able to come up with a solution for your
> > location that works even better than you expect!
> >
> > 73 to all,
> >
> > Tim - N3TL
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla
> > : --------------
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Tim,
> > > Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats.
> > I think the performance of indoor antennas must be heavily
> > dependent on the location of the shack and the construction
> > materials used on the house. I moved my Eggbeater and ground
> > plane to the attic from outside and noticed a sharp drop in
> > performance. Also tried the Arrow here inside the shack and
> > it did not do too well. And noticed that, even outside in
> > the yard with the Arrow, I lose the sats at low elevation,
> > when they drop below the level of nearby roof lines. On my
> > DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was
> > unobstructed view over the ocean, I could easily make
> > contacts with less than 1 degree of elevation with the same
> > HT and
> > > Arrow.
> > >
> > > 73, Bill NZ5N
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx > Subject: Re:
> > [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic
> > for
> > > sats?
> > > > To: "Joe" , billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
> > > > Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
> > > > Bill and all,
> > > >
> > > > Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7
> > Mode B
> > > > Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk
> > on the
> > > > second floor of my house, pointing it to the
> > northeast at a
> > > > spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7
> > was at
> > > > roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here.
> > > >
> > > > I wish I had decided to try these low-angle
> > passes months
> > > > ago!
> > > >
> > > > 73 to all,
> > > >
> > > > Tim - N3TL
> > > > -------------- Original message from Joe
> > > > : --------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You'd be amazed at what you can do with
> > an indoor
> > > > yagi also..
> > > > >
> > > > > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a
> > photo
> > > > tripod that sat right
> > > > > next to me on the floor in the shack,
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe WB9SBD
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> > > > > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew
> > version of
> > > > the Elk duo bander? After reading through the
> > prior thread
> > > > about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and
> > other omnis,
> > > > I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners
> > Association
> > > > and put up
> > > > > a small beam.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >73, Bill NZ5N
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions
> > expressed
> > > > are those of the author.
> > > > > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to
> > support the
> > > > amateur satellite program!
> > > > > >Subscription settings:
> > > > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions
> > expressed are
> > > > those of the author.
> > > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support
> > the
> > > > amateur satellite program!
> > > > > Subscription settings:
> > > > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are
> > those of the author.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > amateur satellite program!
> > > Subscription settings:
> > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those
> > of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> > satellite program!
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> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:07:32 -0700
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: L and S band antennas
To: <zl4jm@xxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W28A1D23834F06EA62D2B7CA9780@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi James,
The current mode L/US on AO-51 is really fantastic. Having the dual downlink
lets you confirm on 70cm that you're getting through on the L-band uplink,
while you are madly fishing around the 2.4 ghz band to find your signal there.
There's nothing more maddening than having to deal with a whole pile of
unknowns, any (and all) of which will prevent success. Then next week (now
that you've got the hang of 13cm), it switches to V/S. (Kudos to the AO-51
command team!)
But, I think you're still going to have a hard time with the L uplink. Your
23cm HT is going to need a lot of antenna in order to get into AO-51, except
under the best conditions. I run 10 watts from my Yaesu 736R into an 18 turn
helix. There's a lot of cable in between the two, but most of it is 1/2"
hardline. At low elevations, it takes all of that 10 watts to get through,
though when the satellite is overhead I can turn it down a bunch.
Fortunately, helix antennas are easy to make, and pretty forgiving in the
exactness of construction.
For 13cm receive, nothing beats a dish. But if you want to go portable, you
might bank on the fact that AO-51 is a lot closer than the other (in)famous S-
band bird, AO-40 (RIP). Where a dish was required for AO-40, I believe some
have received AO-51 with just a helix. You might Google around or search the
BB Archives for references (or others - chime in!).
Good luck!
Greg KO6TH
> From: davenbeck.engineering@xxxxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:05:11 +1200
> Subject: [amsat-bb] L and S band antennas
>
> As a relative "newbie" to satellites, all this talk about the current L/u
mode on AO51, and next weeks V/s mode, looks like a lot of fun. I have 23cm tx
and 13cm rx capability, but no antennas at present for either band. My current
operating conditions are limited to portable operations only, and I wonder if
any other list members can suggest/reccomend any hand held/portable/easily
packed away designs that work well? (commercial or homebrew) As well as my
910H, I have a Kenwood TH-59 23cm HT, and I can confirm that 700 milliwatts
into the HT's ducky won't cut it! (tried last night) Any suggestions welcome
> regards and 73
> James - ZL4JM
> QRPARCI #13307
> AMSAT #36899
> RF70bs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:12:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell
University's student built satellite Violet
To: Nick <quadpugh@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "'Yoon Ho Lee'" <yl482@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: PaulDarby@xxx.xxxx 'Ryan Leblanc' <ral2687@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, 'Lee
Landry' <IEEE.landry@xxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx Mancuso'
<mancuso.christopher@xxxxx.xxx>, 'Prathamesh Chawan'
<prathameshchawan@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <20090418201222.AJO16312@xxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> ... If you fly dipoles they have very
>> deep lobes of the end of the ends and
>> will cause deep fades when the antenna
>> alimented is off the ends.
Two buts...
But the fade is not very wide so the vast majority of time it works just fine.
If you really have to have 100% solid downlink continuously, then just put two
orthogonal dipoles or monopoles and then there are no fades.
In our cubesat design we use two 0.02" nitenol wires that spring out the top
of the cubesat at 90 degrees from each other to give us good omnidirecitnal
coverage at any attitude.
Bob, Wb4APR
>> 3. The ground antenna when at 5 degrees elevation look into the
>> warm earth i.e. 290 deg K
>>
>> For a reality check go copy AO 51. Copy the telemetry beacon. It uses FSK
>> modulation and if you chose GMSK it is several db improvement over FSK. The
>> antenna are turnstile with 2 db gain circular polarized. AO-51 keeps the
>> antennas nadir pointing so there is very little fading due to polarization
>> misalignments and this is a challenge on 10 cm cube.
>>
>> If you make it to the cube sat conference at San Louis Obispo look me up I
>> am 6 ft tall with red hair and 64 years old.
>>
>> Good luck
>> nick
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Yoon Ho Lee [mailto:yl482@xxxxxxx.xxxx
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:18 AM
>> To: Nick
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student built
>> satellite Violet
>>
>> Hello Nick,
>>
>> It seems like the listserv denied my attachment. Here are the files.
>> Thank you for your interest and help!
>>
>> -Danny
>>
>> Nick wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Danny
>>> I will review your link budget but it was not attached to your email.
>>>
>>> Please reply directly to this email off list
>>>
>>> nick
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: amsat-edu-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-edu-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx
>>> On Behalf Of Yoon Ho Lee
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:12 PM
>>> To: amsat-edu@xxxxx.xxx
>>> Subject: [amsat-edu] Link Budget for Cornell University's student
>>> built satellite Violet
>>>
>>> Dear whom it may concern,
>>>
>>> I'm Danny Lee from Cornell University's student built satellite team
>>> Violet, working on Electrical Subsystem, specifically Telemetry and
>>>
>> Control.
>>
>>> For those of you familiar with CUSat, our team is under the same UNP
>>> program, on the 6th competition.
>>>
>>> I have worked out a preliminary link budget from limited resources and
>>> knowledge, and I would greatly appreciate any input from experts out
>>>
>> there.
>>
>>> Please read the note before proceeding to the spreadsheet.
>>>
>>> Thank you very much in advance, and I look forward to your input.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Danny Lee
>>> Electrical Subsystem,
>>> Team Violet,
>>> Cornell University
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 02:06:28 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] (no subject)
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<041920090206.27941.49EA87240005905C00006D2522193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey everyone,
Patrick, WD9EWK, and I had a pretty cool CW contact on AO-7 this evening.
As far as I know (I'm confident Patrick will correct me if this is
inaccurate), both of us were on full battery power and using handheld Elk
antennas. My station included one FT-817ND for transmit (at 5 watts out) and
another for receive, and each was running on its internal battery pack. I
pulled the plug on my Acer netbook and let it do the Doppler tuning on its
internal battery pack. I connected both radios to the Elk with a Diamond
duplexer, and used the straight key I picked up for Straight Key Night this
year.
Patrick was a solid 579 when he called me, and he worked AJ9K after our
contact. And unlike me, I believe he is still manually tuning for Doppler. I
confess that I've gotten spoiled very quickly by the computer's assistance in
that regard.
I believe these are Patrick's first contacts on Grand Old AO-7.
Congratulations to him. Here's to many more contacts with our "flea power"
portable stations.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:18:08 -0600
From: James Duffey <JamesDuffey@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Tuning
To: Jerry Felts <nr5ajerry@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <1D735CC9-F04F-492B-B263-0D9FA69ED30E@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Before the advent of computer Doppler tuning compensation, the
convention was to tune the radio on the highest band as that is where
the doppler is the largest and to leave the other one alone as much as
possible. That is not a perfect solution as different stations in the
footprint see different Doppler shifts and it is usually unavoidable
to tweak both radios. But you can generally save yourself a lot of
confusion by only tuning one radio, the highest one, whether it be
receive or transmit.
If you are using a computer for tracking, it should also give you the
doppler correction even if you are not controlling the radios with it
and you should find your downlink without too much trouble. It is
confusing at first, but after a while you get hte hang of it and it
becomes second nature.
If you can catch AO-7 in Mode A, that is a good mode to practice
Doppler compensation with as the doppler shifts are much lower. - Duffey
On Apr 18, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Jerry Felts wrote:
> I have made 2 contacts now both were VO-52. Both times on SSB and
> very
> confusing. So say I'm working you. I found a clear freq by sending
> alot
> dots. The uplink tx is switched to LSB. Do I leave the tuning dial
> on the
> uplink rig and just use the tuning dial on the downlink to do my
> tuning? Or
> do I juggle both rigs tuning dial and get confused?
>
> Jerry - NR5A - South Dakota
> www.freewebs.com/nr5a
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Minimalist_QRP_Transceivers/
> http://www.cakewalkblogs.com/nr5asminimalradio/index.aspx
> http://nr5abeaconblog.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
> author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
--
KK6MC
James Duffey
Cedar Crest NM
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:44:47 -0700
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: (no subject)
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<2e18ad3e0904181944if66d46dn10b7ed05b97bf07f@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi!
> Patrick, WD9EWK, and I had a pretty cool CW contact on AO-7 this evening.
>
> As far as I know (I'm confident Patrick will correct me if this is
inaccurate),
> both of us were on full battery power and using handheld Elk antennas. My
> station included one FT-817ND for transmit (at 5 watts out) and another for
> receive, and each was running on its internal battery pack. I pulled the
plug
> on my Acer netbook and let it do the Doppler tuning on its internal battery
> pack. I connected both radios to the Elk with a Diamond duplexer, and
> used the straight key I picked up for Straight Key Night this year.
You're right, Tim. I was using my two FT-817NDs on battery power, 5W
transmit power into my Elk Antennas handheld log periodic. The antenna
was connected to the radios through a W6ZQ-modified MFJ duplexer, almost
identical to your Diamond duplexer. Ron - it works great! Instead of a
straight key, I had a Palm Radio Mini-Paddle on its magnetic base sitting on
top of my transmit radio.
I'm currently northeast of Phoenix, staying in grid DM43iu for the weekend.
There are mountains around here, but they did not bother AO-7 during this
pass. I worked VO-52 this morning and AO-27 in the afternoon, before it
was time for AO-7.
> Patrick was a solid 579 when he called me, and he worked AJ9K after our
> contact. And unlike me, I believe he is still manually tuning for Doppler.
Yes, still tuning by hand, and trying to conform to the One True Rule in
tuning the higher of the two frequencies whenever possible. I still want
to get computer control for the radios working via SatPC32, but I did not
want to miss a chance to try AO-7 in mode B tonight.
> I believe these are Patrick's first contacts on Grand Old AO-7.
> Congratulations to him. Here's to many more contacts with our "flea
> power" portable stations.
These were my first two QSOs on AO-7. I tried AO-7 last summer, using
my dual-band Yagi instead of the log periodic, and could only hear myself
in CW on passes where AO-7 was above 50 degrees or so elevation. When
AO-7 was around 10-15 degrees elevation tonight, I could hear CW when
my log periodic was leaning against the side of my truck! And no preamp!!
Thanks to Tim and Dan AJ9K for my first two AO-7 QSOs, and my
apologies for what were probably quick QSOs on my end. I was hoping
to get them in before the satellite went away from me, and not do too
bad on the CW. SSB will probably need higher passes for my 5W
portable station, and possibly a preamp, but I can deal with CW. :-)
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK - currently in Tonto Basin AZ
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 185
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