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CX2SA > SATDIG 18.04.09 16:11l 1084 Lines 37086 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Automobile Noise (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ)
2. SK (Jerry)
3. Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(Bill Dzurilla)
4. L/U AO51 (Dale Hershberger)
5. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(Andy MacAllister)
6. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats? (Joe)
7. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
8. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(Bill Dzurilla)
9. Congrats (Greg D.)
10. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
11. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(Rafael Valdez G. )
12. Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
(Edward Cole)
13. Re: Congrats (w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxxx
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:10:40 +0100
From: Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ <gordonjcp@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Automobile Noise
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <1240002640.6412.17.camel@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 19:17 -0800, Edward Cole wrote:
> >S-9 noise when we put the radio in it. My F150
> >with a V6 gas engine has no noise, but it was
> >S-9 noise when just parked next to the diesel.
Just as a further aside to this, while driving back down today I noticed
that some buses seem to produce a lot of noise. In particular, the
Citylink service buses which use Volvo B10M chassis and VanHool bodies
produced a little burst of S9 noise as I went past. Other similar buses
didn't even make the S-meter flicker, let alone open the squelch.
Gordon
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:57:29 -0500
From: "Jerry" <W0SAT@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] SK
To: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP65707C29613CFFBE3140BE47B0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
SK We just lost another satellite operator. SK
His name is Telmer G. Olson
W0ypt
In Monona IA
Telmer worked the first Oscar,s and the one,s operating
today.
He Elmered me and helped me get into the Sats in 1996
I knew him as a great friend that I called on for advice all
the time.
I used to visit him at his QTH and went to hamfests with
him too.
He was 91 years old and he passed away April 15th 2009
I and all the people who ever had contact with will
always
Remember the many QSO,s and contacts we had with him.
Jerry w0sat
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:15:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <525332.20895.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of the Elk duo bander? After
reading through the prior thread about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and
other omnis, I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners Association and put
up a small beam.
Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
73, Bill NZ5N
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:33:08 -0700
From: Dale Hershberger <daleh@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] L/U AO51
To: W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat bbs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <49E91FC4.5040500@xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Another L/U contact..Alaska - Seattle. Thanks Bob, W7LRD.
Dale - KL7XJ
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:47:40 -0500
From: "Andy MacAllister" <w5acm@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: "'AMSAT BBS'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <0B54AB95395C4C9E8404AA046AC1B57F@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Bill,
You might consider building WA5VJB's answer to the Arrow. I build the 70-cm
antenna with a PVC boom and found it to be excellent.
http://www.wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf
73 de Andy W5ACM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dzurilla" <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:15 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
>
> Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of the Elk duo bander?
> After reading through the prior thread about the poor performance of
> Eggbeaters and other omnis, I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners
> Association and put up a small beam.
>
> Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
>
> 73, Bill NZ5N
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:47:53 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <49E93149.6010802@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
You'd be amazed at what you can do with an indoor yagi also..
My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a photo tripod that sat right
next to me on the floor in the shack,
Joe WB9SBD
Bill Dzurilla wrote:
>Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of the Elk duo bander? After
reading through the prior thread about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and
other omnis, I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners Association and put
up a small beam.
>
>Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
>
>73, Bill NZ5N
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:19:52 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>, billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<041820090219.13895.49E938C80007F87B0000364722230647029B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Bill and all,
Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7 Mode B Thursday evening - and
I was hand-holding my Elk on the second floor of my house, pointing it to the
northeast at a spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7 was at roughly
3.5 degrees elevation here.
I wish I had decided to try these low-angle passes months ago!
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>: --------------
> You'd be amazed at what you can do with an indoor yagi also..
>
> My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a photo tripod that sat right
> next to me on the floor in the shack,
>
> Joe WB9SBD
>
> Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of the Elk duo bander?
After reading through the prior thread about the poor performance of
Eggbeaters and other omnis, I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners
Association and put up
> a small beam.
> >
> >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> >
> >73, Bill NZ5N
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:58:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <935420.51189.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Tim,
Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats. I think the performance
of indoor antennas must be heavily dependent on the location of the shack and
the construction materials used on the house. I moved my Eggbeater and ground
plane to the attic from outside and noticed a sharp drop in performance. Also
tried the Arrow here inside the shack and it did not do too well. And noticed
that, even outside in the yard with the Arrow, I lose the sats at low
elevation, when they drop below the level of nearby roof lines. On my
DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was unobstructed view over
the ocean, I could easily make contacts with less than 1 degree of elevation
with the same HT and Arrow.
73, Bill NZ5N
--- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
> To: "Joe" <nss@xxx.xxx>, billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
> Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
> Bill and all,
>
> Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7 Mode B
> Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk on the
> second floor of my house, pointing it to the northeast at a
> spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7 was at
> roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here.
>
> I wish I had decided to try these low-angle passes months
> ago!
>
> 73 to all,
>
> Tim - N3TL
> -------------- Original message from Joe
> <nss@xxx.xxx>: --------------
>
>
> > You'd be amazed at what you can do with an indoor
> yagi also..
> >
> > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a photo
> tripod that sat right
> > next to me on the floor in the shack,
> >
> > Joe WB9SBD
> >
> > Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of
> the Elk duo bander? After reading through the prior thread
> about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and other omnis,
> I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners Association
> and put up
> > a small beam.
> > >
> > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> > >
> > >73, Bill NZ5N
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed
> are those of the author.
> > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> amateur satellite program!
> > >Subscription settings:
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are
> those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings:
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:26:46 -0700
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Congrats
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W412BEF37AB5C437840A338A9780@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi folks,
Just a quick Congrats to NX5O, Craig, on his first mode LU contact, via AO-51!
I'm glad I could be on the receiving end for the event. Nice signal into the
bird.
73s,
Greg KO6TH
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Life without walls.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1b_explore_042009
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:52:03 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxxx Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<041820090352.16933.49E94E6300031CED0000422522230647029B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey Bill,
Your comments about construction, location, etc., are right one, based on my
experiences here. I actually move from one side of the house to the other
depending on whether passes are to my east or west.
A couple of other things affect the performance I'm getting, too. One of the
most important is that my decision to continue using a handheld antenna means
I have less than six feet of coax from the radio to the antenna. I'm still
getting some loss, but not nearly as much as I'd get by putting antennas in
the attic and running much longer feed lines to them. Another is a little
trick K4DLG in Florida passed along to me a while back.
He has a log periodic for HF, and the coax runs from the antenna feedpoint
along the main boom to the back of the antenna before heading down to the
shack. Taking that lead, he did the same thing with the Elk he bought. Doing
so mitigated any significant changes in SWR due to moving the antenna around
while hand-holding it during a pass. I tried it here and have observed the
same thing. For me, at this location (inside or out), 8 degrees of elevation
was the best I could hope for with the Arrow I had. In all the months I used
that antenna, I made only a few contacts when a given satellite was below 8
degrees here. When I started using the Elk, that "bottom line" immediately
dropped to 4 degrees. And when I tried K4DLG's suggestion of running the
feedline parallel to the boom, the 4 degrees dropped to 3.
And, as you point out, depending on the location and relative path of a given
pass, I can work even lower and make contacts, as I have with some stations in
Europe on AO-7.
All of that being said, I also still lose the satellites due to obstruction,
as you have observed with your Arrow. When it comes to the FM LEO satellites,
only the ISS transmits back to us using more than milliwatt power levels. I
know that AO-51 is capable of 1 watt or more, but it generally is not
configured to transmit at those levels. Drew or someone, please correct me if
that statement is inaccurate. The published stats on AO-27 report a nominal
output of 500 mW, and SO-50 is reported to operate with a nominal 250 mW
output. I believe both of them also use quarter-wave vertical antennas, which
are 0-gain.
Given those power levels, it doesn't take much to begin affecting reception,
especially for handheld stations. From here at my home, that quarter of
azimuth from 90 degrees to 180 degrees is my worst. For really consistent
reception in that part of the sky, I need upwards of 30 degrees elevation when
I'm standing outside at ground level. On the second floor of the house, I get
reception good enough to facilitate contacts with about 15 degrees of
elevation at azimuths from 90 degrees to about 130. I still need close to 30
from azimuth 130 to 180 no matter where I try to operate from - in the yard or
upstairs.
I hope you're able to come up with a solution for your location that works
even better than you expect!
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>: ---
-----------
>
> Tim,
> Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats. I think the
performance of indoor antennas must be heavily dependent on the location of
the shack and the construction materials used on the house. I moved my
Eggbeater and ground plane to the attic from outside and noticed a sharp drop
in performance. Also tried the Arrow here inside the shack and it did not do
too well. And noticed that, even outside in the yard with the Arrow, I lose
the sats at low elevation, when they drop below the level of nearby roof
lines. On my DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was
unobstructed view over the ocean, I could easily make contacts with less than
1 degree of elevation with the same HT and
> Arrow.
>
> 73, Bill NZ5N
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
>
> > From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style
14/435 mhz log periodic for
> sats?
> > To: "Joe" , billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
> > Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
> > Bill and all,
> >
> > Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7 Mode B
> > Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk on the
> > second floor of my house, pointing it to the northeast at a
> > spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7 was at
> > roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here.
> >
> > I wish I had decided to try these low-angle passes months
> > ago!
> >
> > 73 to all,
> >
> > Tim - N3TL
> > -------------- Original message from Joe
> > : --------------
> >
> >
> > > You'd be amazed at what you can do with an indoor
> > yagi also..
> > >
> > > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a photo
> > tripod that sat right
> > > next to me on the floor in the shack,
> > >
> > > Joe WB9SBD
> > >
> > > Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> > > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of
> > the Elk duo bander? After reading through the prior thread
> > about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and other omnis,
> > I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners Association
> > and put up
> > > a small beam.
> > > >
> > > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> > > >
> > > >73, Bill NZ5N
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed
> > are those of the author.
> > > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > amateur satellite program!
> > > >Subscription settings:
> > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are
> > those of the author.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > amateur satellite program!
> > > Subscription settings:
> > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 04:04:57 +0000
From: "Rafael Valdez G. " <rafavaldez@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: "n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx " <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
" <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>, "nss@xxx.xxx " <nss@xxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx " <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DS5A71A328D16580CDEC0CCDB780@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
Defiinetely your solution for hoa is the elk as far a I understand you can
have a Tv. Antenna which te elk can fairly look like....
I am a true believer of Elk' eficiency and portability...
GL 73's
XE2RV
VUCC 164 satellite
-----Original Message-----
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:52:03
To: <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>; <nss@xxx.xxx>
Cc: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>; <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for sats?
Hey Bill,
Your comments about construction, location, etc., are right one, based on my
experiences here. I actually move from one side of the house to the other
depending on whether passes are to my east or west.
A couple of other things affect the performance I'm getting, too. One of the
most important is that my decision to continue using a handheld antenna means
I have less than six feet of coax from the radio to the antenna. I'm still
getting some loss, but not nearly as much as I'd get by putting antennas in
the attic and running much longer feed lines to them. Another is a little
trick K4DLG in Florida passed along to me a while back.
He has a log periodic for HF, and the coax runs from the antenna feedpoint
along the main boom to the back of the antenna before heading down to the
shack. Taking that lead, he did the same thing with the Elk he bought. Doing
so mitigated any significant changes in SWR due to moving the antenna around
while hand-holding it during a pass. I tried it here and have observed the
same thing. For me, at this location (inside or out), 8 degrees of elevation
was the best I could hope for with the Arrow I had. In all the months I used
that antenna, I made only a few contacts when a given satellite was below 8
degrees here. When I started using the Elk, that "bottom line" immediately
dropped to 4 degrees. And when I tried K4DLG's suggestion of running the
feedline parallel to the boom, the 4 degrees dropped to 3.
And, as you point out, depending on the location and relative path of a given
pass, I can work even lower and make contacts, as I have with some stations in
Europe on AO-7.
All of that being said, I also still lose the satellites due to obstruction,
as you have observed with your Arrow. When it comes to the FM LEO satellites,
only the ISS transmits back to us using more than milliwatt power levels. I
know that AO-51 is capable of 1 watt or more, but it generally is not
configured to transmit at those levels. Drew or someone, please correct me if
that statement is inaccurate. The published stats on AO-27 report a nominal
output of 500 mW, and SO-50 is reported to operate with a nominal 250 mW
output. I believe both of them also use quarter-wave vertical antennas, which
are 0-gain.
Given those power levels, it doesn't take much to begin affecting reception,
especially for handheld stations. From here at my home, that quarter of
azimuth from 90 degrees to 180 degrees is my worst. For really consistent
reception in that part of the sky, I need upwards of 30 degrees elevation when
I'm standing outside at ground level. On the second floor of the house, I get
reception good enough to facilitate contacts with about 15 degrees of
elevation at azimuths from 90 degrees to about 130. I still need close to 30
from azimuth 130 to 180 no matter where I try to operate from - in the yard or
upstairs.
I hope you're able to come up with a solution for your location that works
even better than you expect!
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>: --
------------
>
> Tim,
> Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats. I think the
performance of indoor antennas must be heavily dependent on the location of
the shack and the construction materials used on the house. I moved my
Eggbeater and ground plane to the attic from outside and noticed a sharp drop
in performance. Also tried the Arrow here inside the shack and it did not do
too well. And noticed that, even outside in the yard with the Arrow, I lose
the sats at low elevation, when they drop below the level of nearby roof
lines. On my DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was
unobstructed view over the ocean, I could easily make contacts with less than
1 degree of elevation with the same HT and
> Arrow.
>
> 73, Bill NZ5N
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
>
> > From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style
14/435 mhz log periodic for
> sats?
> > To: "Joe" , billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
> > Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
> > Bill and all,
> >
> > Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7 Mode B
> > Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk on the
> > second floor of my house, pointing it to the northeast at a
> > spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7 was at
> > roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here.
> >
> > I wish I had decided to try these low-angle passes months
> > ago!
> >
> > 73 to all,
> >
> > Tim - N3TL
> > -------------- Original message from Joe
> > : --------------
> >
> >
> > > You'd be amazed at what you can do with an indoor
> > yagi also..
> > >
> > > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a photo
> > tripod that sat right
> > > next to me on the floor in the shack,
> > >
> > > Joe WB9SBD
> > >
> > > Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> > > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of
> > the Elk duo bander? After reading through the prior thread
> > about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and other omnis,
> > I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners Association
> > and put up
> > > a small beam.
> > > >
> > > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> > > >
> > > >73, Bill NZ5N
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed
> > are those of the author.
> > > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > amateur satellite program!
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> > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are
> > those of the author.
> > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > amateur satellite program!
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<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:50:29 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
sats?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <200904180550.n3I5oThq008276@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Just to add some observations that support yours.
I started 12 years ago with a 2m yagi supported on 15-foot mast in
the yard with 45-foot forest surrounding my property. Working 2m SSB
stations 60-70 miles away was a hit and miss, sometimes event
(running 150w). I built a 40-foot tower and mounted two 10-element
yagis made from parts of a Cushcraft 20T satellite antenna and signal
came up 3 s-units. Then I put up my antennas ten feet higher and
gained another 15-dB. Of course the antennas were then above the tree line.
On the other hand, my father wanted a low impact TV antenna at his
home in Michigan, so I suggested putting it up in the rafters of his
ranch-style single story home. I had just spent a summer in bush
Alaska putting up TV translator systems with antennas mounted inside
plywood shelters (on hill tops). My dad's antenna was set up in the
rafters of the garage. It did better than I would have expected
getting a good signal on VHF and UHF from TV stations 35-50 miles
away. 19-years later the antenna is still there working. They do
have Direct-TV dish so have more choices, now.
Point is there is more than one way to make things work...if you
understand the principles and limitations. Short coax and hand-held
antennas work pretty well, but not very convenient in some
weather. Longer coax runs and permanent antenna need a preamp to
work best. Getting the antenna clear of obstructions always is
helpful, but if you are satisfied with working only at higher
elevation angles then simple low antennas still work.
A full az-el CP yagi with preamp and auto-tracking is superb. A
simple short yagi fixed at 15 to 30 degrees and rotated in azimuth
only works too. Can you guess how well my L-band uplink will work
with a 16-foot dish and 300w? He he, well only for Oscar-zero.
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 07:52 PM 4/17/2009, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
>Hey Bill,
>
>Your comments about construction, location, etc., are right one,
>based on my experiences here. I actually move from one side of the
>house to the other depending on whether passes are to my east or west.
>
>A couple of other things affect the performance I'm getting, too.
>One of the most important is that my decision to continue using a
>handheld antenna means I have less than six feet of coax from the
>radio to the antenna. I'm still getting some loss, but not nearly as
>much as I'd get by putting antennas in the attic and running much
>longer feed lines to them. Another is a little trick K4DLG in
>Florida passed along to me a while back.
>
>He has a log periodic for HF, and the coax runs from the antenna
>feedpoint along the main boom to the back of the antenna before
>heading down to the shack. Taking that lead, he did the same thing
>with the Elk he bought. Doing so mitigated any significant changes
>in SWR due to moving the antenna around while hand-holding it during
>a pass. I tried it here and have observed the same thing. For me, at
>this location (inside or out), 8 degrees of elevation was the best I
>could hope for with the Arrow I had. In all the months I used that
>antenna, I made only a few contacts when a given satellite was below
>8 degrees here. When I started using the Elk, that "bottom line"
>immediately dropped to 4 degrees. And when I tried K4DLG's
>suggestion of running the feedline parallel to the boom, the 4
>degrees dropped to 3.
>
>And, as you point out, depending on the location and relative path
>of a given pass, I can work even lower and make contacts, as I have
>with some stations in Europe on AO-7.
>
>All of that being said, I also still lose the satellites due to
>obstruction, as you have observed with your Arrow. When it comes to
>the FM LEO satellites, only the ISS transmits back to us using more
>than milliwatt power levels. I know that AO-51 is capable of 1 watt
>or more, but it generally is not configured to transmit at those
>levels. Drew or someone, please correct me if that statement is
>inaccurate. The published stats on AO-27 report a nominal output of
>500 mW, and SO-50 is reported to operate with a nominal 250 mW
>output. I believe both of them also use quarter-wave vertical
>antennas, which are 0-gain.
>
>Given those power levels, it doesn't take much to begin affecting
>reception, especially for handheld stations. From here at my home,
>that quarter of azimuth from 90 degrees to 180 degrees is my worst.
>For really consistent reception in that part of the sky, I need
>upwards of 30 degrees elevation when I'm standing outside at ground
>level. On the second floor of the house, I get reception good enough
>to facilitate contacts with about 15 degrees of elevation at
>azimuths from 90 degrees to about 130. I still need close to 30 from
>azimuth 130 to 180 no matter where I try to operate from - in the
>yard or upstairs.
>
>I hope you're able to come up with a solution for your location that
>works even better than you expect!
>
>73 to all,
>
>Tim - N3TL
>
>
>-------------- Original message from Bill Dzurilla
><billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>: --------------
>
>
> >
> > Tim,
> > Yes, your QSO with F2IL is becoming famous, congrats. I think the
> performance of indoor antennas must be heavily dependent on the
> location of the shack and the construction materials used on the
> house. I moved my Eggbeater and ground plane to the attic from
> outside and noticed a sharp drop in performance. Also tried the
> Arrow here inside the shack and it did not do too well. And noticed
> that, even outside in the yard with the Arrow, I lose the sats at
> low elevation, when they drop below the level of nearby roof lines.
> On my DXpeditions to Swan Island and Jamaica, where there was
> unobstructed view over the ocean, I could easily make contacts with
> less than 1 degree of elevation with the same HT and
> > Arrow.
> >
> > 73, Bill NZ5N
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 4/17/09, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> >
> > > From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Homebrew
> Elk-style 14/435 mhz log periodic for
> > sats?
> > > To: "Joe" , billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
> > > Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
> > > Bill and all,
> > >
> > > Joe is right. F2IL gave me a 569 report on AO-7 Mode B
> > > Thursday evening - and I was hand-holding my Elk on the
> > > second floor of my house, pointing it to the northeast at a
> > > spot on a windowless wall. When we worked, AO-7 was at
> > > roughly 3.5 degrees elevation here.
> > >
> > > I wish I had decided to try these low-angle passes months
> > > ago!
> > >
> > > 73 to all,
> > >
> > > Tim - N3TL
> > > -------------- Original message from Joe
> > > : --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > > You'd be amazed at what you can do with an indoor
> > > yagi also..
> > > >
> > > > My first 2 meter ant was a 3 ele quad on a photo
> > > tripod that sat right
> > > > next to me on the floor in the shack,
> > > >
> > > > Joe WB9SBD
> > > >
> > > > Bill Dzurilla wrote:
> > > > >Are there plans anywhere for a homebrew version of
> > > the Elk duo bander? After reading through the prior thread
> > > about the poor performance of Eggbeaters and other omnis,
> > > I'm ready to risk the wrath of my Homeowners Association
> > > and put up
> > > > a small beam.
> > > > >
> > > > >Or, anybody have an Elk for sale?
> > > > >
> > > > >73, Bill NZ5N
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed
> > > are those of the author.
> > > > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > > amateur satellite program!
> > > > >Subscription settings:
> > > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are
> > > those of the author.
> > > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the
> > > amateur satellite program!
> > > > Subscription settings:
> > > http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:45:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Congrats
To: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<695705411.3064511240037100085.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.
xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ditto from Seattle!? Good copy here Craig.? Not very many L banders on AO-51,
we can actually have a conversation.? Dale-KL7XJ is?also a ?regular solid
contact.? These varied modes on AO-51 get me off AO-7.
73 Bob W7LRD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:26:46 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [amsat-bb] ?Congrats
Hi folks,
Just a quick Congrats to NX5O, Craig, on his first mode LU contact, via AO-51!
?I'm glad I could be on the receiving end for the event. ?Nice signal into the
bird.
73s,
Greg ?KO6TH
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Life without walls.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1b_explore_042009
_______________________________________________
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 183
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