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CX2SA > SATDIG 18.04.09 02:29l 696 Lines 20279 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: EggBeater (Mark Spencer)
2. Re: EggBeater (Robert Bruninga)
3. Re: HRD Sat Tracking program - slow? (John,K0QH)
4. Re: Presentations (Clint Bradford)
5. Tonight ... France found Georgia on AO-7 (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
6. Re: EggBeater (Edward Cole)
7. Re: Presentations (Greg D.)
8. Any SSPI members on the AMSAT list? (h05ram-k9ldw@xxx.xxxx
9. Satscape-WiSP DDE (wcp2@xxxxx.xxxx
10. Delfi-C3 / DO-64 featured in the Dutch "Klokhuis" TV
programme (Wouter Jan Ubbels)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Spencer <mspencer12345@xxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: EggBeater
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <527151.92749.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Yes, by definition.? An omni cannot hear most of the amateur
>satellites on the horizon, because there just isnt enough signal
>(except for ISS).? You need some gain to hear them on the
>horizon.? BUT when the satellite gets above 20 to 30 degrees, it
>can be TEN times stronger and then ANY omni antenna will work
>quite well (and you don't have to point it).?
>BUT... plot the amount of time a satellite is in view above 25
>degrees and it is less than 1/4th of the time.
Good point.
One approach I have tried with VO52?is to use two receivers with different
antennas for the down link.??? (ie, one antenna is a ground plane with a
modest degree of gain at the horizion, the other is a horizontally polarized
(with respect to the ground) dipole.)??? The results are signficantly better
than a single omni antenna and one of the receivers is usually able to produce
an acceptable signal.? During high over head passes the nulls in the pattern
of the ground plane are quite apparent, and the dipole works much better on
the high passes, on low passes the gain of the ground plane is helpfull but
the signals while readable often won't even move the S meter.???A beam that
can be pointed directly at the satellite is an even better solution and?is
likely more cost effective if you are buying all the gear from scratch and
listening to signals that often don't move the S meter?can be?tiring after a
while.??
Still in my view?if you can't have or don't want a beam and rotor system you
can make omni antennas work for the LEO's most of the time but you'll probably
be happier with?beams and a rotor.
Regards
Mark VE7AFZ
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:53:19 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: EggBeater
To: <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx 'billdz geo' <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <EC8A96B558094B3CB618A6FB5DE1D306@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Somewhere I read where the percentages of where
> the satellites are in elevation. The majority of
> low elevation is fairly high. Whereas as a
> elevation of 70 plus degrees is quite low.
I have a table on my web page:
www.aprs.org/rotator1.html
And looking at the figure it is obvious what we are saying.
Also there is a plot of a modest 6 element beam tilted up at 15
degrees (NO MORE!) showing how it and a TV rotator are all you
need to work all these LEO birds.
Bob, WB4APR
Then a higher elevation is closer so the path
> loss is less. Almost everyone that I know who started out
> with a egg beater eventually gets a beam of some sort. So
> why not start there? A simple short beam aimed at about 30
> degrees will cover a huge amount of sky
> 73 Bob W7LRD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Robert Bruninga
>
> To: billdz geo , amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>
> Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:36:45 +0000 (UTC)
>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: EggBeater
>
>
>
> > I have both a commercial and a homebrew Eggbeater
>
> > and am disappointed with both,
>
>
>
> Yes, because the best omni in the world is no better
(generally)
>
> than a dipole made out of a piece of wire. By definition,
these
>
> antennas are OMNI's so they can hear in all directions. This
>
> means they have zero gain. That is the basic law of physics.
>
>
>
> > ... performance is far less than with an HT and
>
> > an Arrow.
>
>
>
> This is because the arrow is a "gain" antenna. Gain means
that
>
> the structure sacrifices gain in all directions to concentrate
>
> it in only one direction. Which then you have to point. It
is
>
> impossible to have both gain and omni at the same time.
>
>
>
> But what about Gain Vertical OMNI antennas? Well, they have
>
> GAIN in all directions but only on the horizon. To get that
>
> gain on the horizon, they MUST sacrifice gain somewhere else.
>
> They sacrifice all gain that is UP. But that is where
>
> satellites are, so it makes little sense to try to use one of
>
> these, because you still wont hear any satelites, because the
>
> gain you get "on the horizon" (maybe 3 to 6 dB or so) is just
>
> barely enough, but then as the satellite gets higher, it gets
>
> into the null of the antenna.
>
>
>
> > Guess an omni can't cut it, at least not from my QTH.
>
>
>
> Yes, by definition. An omni cannot hear most of the amateur
>
> satellites on the horizon, because there just isnt enough
signal
>
> (except for ISS). You need some gain to hear them on the
>
> horizon. BUT when the satellite gets above 20 to 30 degrees,
it
>
> can be TEN times stronger and then ANY omni antenna will work
>
> quite well (and you don't have to point it).
>
>
>
> BUT... plot the amount of time a satellite is in view above 25
>
> degrees and it is less than 1/4th of the time.
>
>
>
> So there is no free lunch. Either put up an omni and only be
>
> able to hear the satellites for on the order of 25% or less of
>
> their available time in view (but have no moving parts). Or
use
>
> a beam to get the gain on the horizon where you need it most,
>
> and plan on keeping it pointed at the satellite.
>
>
>
> > Maybe if I could get it up higher, clear of all
>
> > roofs, it would do better.
>
>
>
> Not really. Because getting "high" only gets you visiblity to
>
> the horizon where, by definition, you already do not have
enough
>
> gain to hear any of the low powered satellites.
>
>
>
> > I can make contacts at relatively high sat
>
> > elevations, but can do just as well with a
>
> > $10 dual band ground plane.
>
>
>
> Yes! That is exactly what we are talking about here. You
>
> cannot have both. If you want an omni, then a simple ground
>
> plane antenna made out of a few pieces of wire will do just
>
> about as good most of the time as the most expensive "omni"...
>
> Some will argue that you need circular polarization, to
>
> eliminate some fading, but again you can also say that many
>
> times the polarization is opposite and so even the right hand
>
> circular antnena hears fades too when the circularity gets
>
> reversed...
>
>
>
> Go with a simple 1/4 wave ground plane antenna with a preamp,
>
> and hear well, less than 1/3rd of the time. Or us a beam...
>
>
>
> > My friend has an Eggbeater and the same preamp
>
> > at a clearer QTH, and he hears substantially better,
>
> > down to 10 degrees elevation in some directions.
>
>
>
> Yes, some satellites are stronger than others. But most are
not
>
> designed with the 10dB link margin they need to hit omni's
>
> horizon to horizon. Most cannot afford to waste that much
power
>
> for the benefit of people with omni's.
>
>
>
> Plenty of people corrrectly swear by their omni that it can
hear
>
> very well. And tthis is true, but not at low elevations -and-
>
> with the low power satellites. So always make sure you are
>
> comparing apples and apples.
>
>
>
> I was shocked during a class today when I went out to listen
to
>
> VO-52 and the signals sounded like 20 over S9... But then 30
>
> seconds later, they were down where I expected. Looking at
the
>
> track, it was almost directly overhead (and 10 dB) stronger
than
>
> when it is a few minutes later.
>
>
>
> Good luck
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of
> the author.
>
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite program!
>
> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:51:11 -0500
From: "John,K0QH" <k0qh@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HRD Sat Tracking program - slow?
To: David McKenzie <kb1fsy@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <49E78C2F.6020304@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
David McKenzie wrote:
> Blame the programmer, not the operating system.
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bill Dzurilla <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Anyone using the Sat Tracking feature on Ham Radio Deluxe?
>>
>> When I click on New Satellite, CPU usage shoots to 100% and it takes over a
>> minute to display the track of the new sat. Also very slow on several other
>> functions. This can't be normal, is it my computer or is it Vista? Running
a
>> new Lenovo desktop with Windows Vista.
>>
>> I tried it with my Windows XP laptop and it worked fine. Darn Vista. Any
>> way to get it working properly with Vista (32 bit version)?
>>
>> Any cure?
>>
>> 73, Bill NZ5N
Just ran again to be sure but it runs just fine on my Vista 32 bit Acer
Laptop. New Satellite comes right up as soon as I click it.
--
John,K0QH
aka AJ0W
www.stgdxcc.webs.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:06:25 -0700
From: Clint Bradford <clintbrad4d@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Presentations
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <1E4E1CE9-037E-48E9-9F50-57BB531F66FB@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>> You can download mine from:
>> http://www.slideshare.net/g4dpz/amateur-satelllite-beginners-presentation
This is an excellent slideshow, indeed! I have a suggestion, tough ...
Several of the slides have way too much wording on them. The more
words there are on a slide means the audience will be reading them,
and NOT listening to the presenter. It's human nature ...
I suggest simplifying those wordy slides ... and simply using bulleted
words/points. You want your audience hanging on YOUR spoken words, and
not lose them while they are reading stuff behind you on the screen.
And create handouts for your audiences. Handouts that include all the
Wen site citations and programming charts. Anyone is welcome to use my
"How to Work AO-51 With Your HT" 4-page tutorial posted at ...
http://www.k6lcs.com
Don't make your audiences write down URLs and Doppler-corrected sets
of RX frequencies ... The first moment you see someone writing down a
URL or freq after you've told it to them, interrupt yourself and tell
'em, "I have this all printed out for you in a handout - you don't
need to write that down!" You will see sighs of relief and
appreciation from several in the group - guaranteed!
Clint Bradford, K6LCS
909-241-7666
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:28 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Tonight ... France found Georgia on AO-7
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<041620092251.17563.49E7B67000006C220000449B22230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey everyone,
These low angle passes of AO-7 are moving farther east every cycle of Mode B,
so I only have one more before a several-week hiatus while the Grand Old Girl
moves along.
Tonight, PH7PCF in the Netherlands answered my CW "CQ DX" with a hello in SSB.
Then, a couple of minutes later, F2IL returned my CW in some CW from France.
It is really cool to work Europe on AO-7 in CW, and using a straight key. I
confess ... I have the "CQ DX" call set up in a memory buffer on my FT-857D.
But when somebody responds, the straight key takes over. What a hoot!
Thanks again to Joe, K3SZH. He has been a wonderful help in getting me going
on AO-7, and it's a load of fun to work. I feel very fortunate to have this
chance to work such a historic satellite.
I suspect I'm not the first to notice that Nov. 15th of this year marks the
35th Anniversary of her launch. I hope many of you will take the time tro try
for contacts on that day. I'm already looking forward to it!
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:50:48 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: EggBeater
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <200904170150.n3H1ompp076814@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Drew,
Thanks for the document on this antenna. I was going to try resizing
the 2m Lindenblad design of Tony's but this will be a snap for me. I
have 1/8-inch rod elements from an old Cushcraft yagi that
disintegrated long ago and have some 1/2-inch sched-40 aluminum pipe
(7/8 inch OD) that will work fine for the vertical. I can get the
PVC from my local building supply. Only need to order ferrites from
Mouser. Since I will place a 432 preamp at the antenna a short run
of RG-58 or mini-8 will suffice. I probably will make some variation
in the materials used. I did that on the 2m Lindenblad (not assembled, yet).
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 08:02 AM 4/16/2009, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
>Consider trying AA2TX's excellent parasitic lindenblad design. Unlike the
>overpriced eggbeater, it puts the gain on the horizon where it is needed,
>and is circular across the pattern. The parts mostly are from your local
>hardware store, and in Tony's typical fashion, it is simple to assemble and
>works well.
>
>73, Drew KO4MA
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Dzurilla" <billdz.geo@xxxxx.xxx>
>To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:56 AM
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: EggBeater
>
>
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I have both a commercial and a homebrew Eggbeater and am disappointed with
> > both, especially in light of its rather high price. Connected to my
> > IC-7000 via an ARR mast-mounted preamp, performance is far less than with
> > an HT and an Arrow. Guess an omni can't cut it, at least not from my QTH.
> >
> > Maybe if I could get it up higher, clear of all roofs, it would do better.
> > I can make contacts at relatively high sat elevations, but can do just as
> > well with a $10 dual band ground plane. My friend has an Eggbeater and
> > the same preamp at a clearer QTH, and he hears substantially better, down
> > to 10 degrees elevation in some directions.
> >
> > Good luck and 73,
> > Bill NZ5N
> >
> >> > Hi Steve,
> >> >
> >> > It is surprising to read that you are not hearing
> >> anything. I have
> >> > repeatedly used a 2m and 70cm Eggbeater for the sats
> >> and have had no
> >> > problem hearing things. No pre-amp.
> >> >
> >> > I was using a short cable (e.g. less than 10 meters).
> >> The rigs I
> >> > used were a FT-736r (deaf) and a FT-847 (so-so).
> >> >
> >> > 73,
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:32:40 -0700
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Presentations
To: <nk7i@xxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W46B55F63D4A541D28C696BA97B0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi Bob,
I'm in the middle of updating mine, for our club meeting early next month.
When do you need it?
Greg KO6TH
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:24:35 -0700
> From: nk7i@xxxxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Presentations
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have been asked to do a presentation on satellite operation. Does anyone
have any kind of presentation they would be willing to share?
>
> Appreciate your help.
>
> 73,
> Bob Herrell, AJ5C EM36
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:12:02 -0500
From: h05ram-k9ldw@xxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Any SSPI members on the AMSAT list?
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <009NDqoLc4178S30.1239977522@xxxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Pardon the bandwidth, but are there any members of the SSPI (Society of
Satellite Professionals International... www.sspi.org) on this list?
I am considering joining them if feedback indicates it is worthwhile.
Thanks,
Lowell
..yes, an AMSAT member! :)
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:44:05 +0000
From: wcp2@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satscape-WiSP DDE
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<041720091744.3152.49E8BFE50001A70200000C50223245003003010CD2079C080C03B
FCD9F0C99@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
OK so my WIN98 machine took a dump.....It was running Scatscape v1.88 with
WiSp DDE to control rotor and all was fine. (using LVB via USB Fdti driver)
Now after setting up WIN98 with new HD and reinstalling Satscape 1.88 and USB
driver for LVB tracker when I use DDE link and send info to WiSP DDE Sat info
goes ok however even if Sat is not in range it shows AZ with - deg Elev. and
of course drives the LVB down!!! Before when Sat was not in range WiSP would
show not in range then when in range all was fine. Any Help ? KA9ERV
PS: I know get XP..............
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:46:42 +0200
From: Wouter Jan Ubbels <wjubbels@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Delfi-C3 / DO-64 featured in the Dutch "Klokhuis"
TV programme
To: "Amsat-Bb@xxxxx. Org" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<af4c9b1b0904171046u24079f3en84d949592e2fadfe@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
Delfi-C3 / DO-64 was featured yesterday in the Dutch popular children's
science TV show "Klokhuis" (Dutch for "apple core").
Footage was taken during the final integration and vibration testing of the
satellite. As usual in every episode of this TV show, they have put short
comedy scenes in the beginning and in between. Oh, and it is good to
practice your Dutch skills hi.
see http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=9308737
73 on behalf of the Delfi-C3 / DO-64 team,
Wouter Jan Ubbels PE4WJ
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 182
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