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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: The Tragedy of the commons (Patrick Green)
2. ao-51 (Steve Howard AB0XE)
3. the tyranny of the military (Thomas McGrane)
4. Re: the tyranny of the military (Dave Aitch)
5. Re: The Tragedy of the commons (Bruce)
6. Re: the tyranny of the military (David - KG4ZLB/M?ZLB)
7. Re: the tyranny of the military (David - KG4ZLB/M?ZLB)
8. Re: the tyranny of the military (Scott Gillis N3UJJ)
9. Re: The Tragedy of the commons (Greg Dober)
10. Re: the tyranny of the military (Edward Cole)
11. AO-51 debacle. (Dave Aitch)
12. Re: the tyranny of the military (Dave Aitch)
13. Manual (robert sondack)
14. Re: Manual (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604)
15. Re: Manual (Scott Gillis N3UJJ)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:37:48 -0600
From: Patrick Green <pagreen@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Tragedy of the commons
To: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<54e507230902240537i8c59585j60331a909228ef0d@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
We should try this on Field Day and see how it works. . .
73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Bob Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> The situation on AO-51 is called the "tragedy of the commons" and is as
predictable as day and night and an inescapable result of human nature. See
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
>
> No amount of grousing and complaining, and high minded condemnation of
others is going to change that. ?What we need to do is not try to change human
nature (my wife has been trying to do that her entire life with little to show
for it), but either live with it and take advantage of it, or change the
paradigm.
>
> I have been recommending for years that we solve it like we do any amateur
radio net. ?That is, operate with volunteer net control operators that take
checkins by region or other discriminant for the duration of the pass. ?On
each exchange, he announces the next narrow selection and takes checkins.
?Ever mindful of the satellite location on the map.
>
> Examples from a pass from Sandiego to Maine:
> "This is N6XXX taking checkins from K6's in SOCAL"
> "Now W6's... ?Now A6's.... Now N6's.
> "This is N6XXX taking checkins from HT's in SOCAL
> "now W0's... now K0's, now ...
> "Handing over to Net Control in the Central States...
> and so forth.
>
> How do you define Net Control? ?Easy. the first guy with the most power and
stamina.
>
> Can you think of problems, sure! There are all kinds of complaints and
issues and why-not-me, and how-could you limit my rights... etc... that we
will hear, but operating as a net has always been the method in radio to gain
some semblance of order, and we should be proud of our tradition in that
regard.
>
> What about contesting and points, and scores, etc? ?That is easy. ?We define
a contact as a 2 way between every person that got his full call and grid or
location through. ?After all, that is what a net control does, facilitate the
many-way exchange of information between all users.
>
> If net control hears of a DEMO, or DX station or special event, or emergency
traffic, or island expedition, he can then give that station the attention it
needs.
>
> Anyway, this method cannot be worse than what we have now (which is a free-
for-all which is setup to fail as the tragedy of the commons). ?We operated
PCSAT2 FM voice repeater sometimes with a net control and it was nice and
orderly and fun.
>
> Anyway, there is the solution. ?Either try it, or keep complaining
forever...
>
> Bob, Wb4APR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:49:54 -0600
From: "Steve Howard AB0XE" <ab0xe@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ao-51
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <DC107706F5D14368941C95F1F8B57C0F@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good morning all
I like reading the amsat-bb everyday. I have learned alot
by doing so. I am a newbie to the satellites, only starting around Christmas
time. Yes AO-51 and ISS can get crowded, much like a contest station. When it
does get like that I usually don't try to transmit. Instead I listen and
practice copying down all those fast calls and grids. I consider Ham Radio to
also be a listening hobby
not just a transmitting hobby. What I have done is look at what passes will
work the best for me. In my case its the early morning passes
before work, the ones that come down over Canada. I tend to do alot of
listening on the evening passes no matter how crowded it gets. The fact that I
can
hear XE2PHH or XE2MWY or Patrick portable in Mexico off of a satellite and I
am sitting in a basement in Minnesota is still pretty exciting to this old
man.
Yes, even I know who the K3 station is on AO-07. But he took the time to work
me when I was running only an elk antenna and a none duplex radio
that was off frequency. He also took the time to send me an e-mail to
encourage me to work the satellites. In fact it was my very first satellite
contact
and I had little idea of what to do
So from this newbies point of view the good parts of satellite radio by far
out weigh any negative parts of satellite radio
73
Steve Howard
AB0XE
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:36:18 -0800
From: "Thomas McGrane" <n2oeq@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] the tyranny of the military
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <68a14208febf4cf7bdbb4dfdc03753bd.n2oeq@xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Greetings from Patrick N2OEQ
Regarding bruninga's post suggesting even more control over the
satellite.... Bruninga and the military has too much control over the
space program and amsat satellites.
Look what happened to the space station, years of military devised
packet position reporting and very little "human" contact.
I recommend you all think for yourselves and remember, this is AMATEUR
radio, NOT PROFESSIONAL.
Regarding activity on oscar 51, its great to hear the excitment of new
operators but very disappointing to hear so many regulars almost every
day. Give some new people a chance.
Bruninga reminds me of the movie title, "the world is not enough"
Think for yourselves!
pat
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:54:14 -0000
From: "Dave Aitch" <dave@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: the tyranny of the military
To: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000301c9968f$c3f31fb0$4bd95f10$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Bob et al.
A net may work in the U.S. but I doubt it
would work in the E.U.
Good luck,
Dave. G1OCN
AMSAT UK 5766
-----Original Message-----
Subject: [amsat-bb] the tyranny of the military
Greetings from Patrick N2OEQ
Regarding bruninga's post suggesting even more control over the
satellite..........
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:00:35 -0600
From: Bruce <kk5do@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Tragedy of the commons
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <49A40B93.5090707@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Very interesting Bob..... I had just sent this to a friend of mine to
look at before sending to the bb. It is basically the same thing.
However, taking checkins is too time consuming, this is a much easier plan.
When dx stations are working HF and they are operating split, they can
very easily move up and down the band to find a station that is in the
clear. Also, no one has a problem hearing them (except for the
occasional guy that forgets to hit split). However, when on the
satellite, you do not have the luxury of split operations on FM. The dx
station keeps trying to get back to the one station he wants to work,
others keep calling and it is futile. By the time you work that one guy,
minutes have gone by and both are bouncing call signs back and forth
until correct.
I worked a bunch of rare grid squares over the years (as I am sure many
others have done like WB4APR, KO4MA, N5AFV, W5ACM, WD9EWK, WI7P (former
W7SFI) etc) and I have found the easiest way to maximize your contacts
is to first listen and write down all the calls you hear for about a
minute. This is the quickest way to get them all down without having
everyone stepping on each other. Since the stronger stations will repeat
themselves several times, you will have a chance to get them correct.
Then one of the regular ops (the alligator, you might say) has to tell
everyone to stop transmitting for a minute and see who the dx station
has heard. The dx station comes back and says I have K1KK, K2KK, K3KK
etc. As the dx station was heard by everyone and he answered back with
your call, you have a two-way contact. Now, those that he did not hear
will give out their calls while all the others are happy. If he got a
call sign incorrect, he just needs to write down the correction when he
hears it and then acknowledge it on the next go around.
After a minute, someone has the stations break and he again the dx
station comes back and gives those that he has heard. Everyone that is
on the satellite should have the opportunity to get their contact as the
big fish will get plucked first and the weaker stations as you go on.
This also means they all don't have to say, 'thanks for the contact.'
Ten people saying, 'thanks for the contact, have fun' will wind up
wasting a minute or two which further limits others from making a contact.
It basically involves someone being a 'monitor or pilot' for the dx op
because they don't have the power to get through and do it themselves.
It can be anyone on that pass that just has to say after a minute or so,
'hang on guys let's see who he has heard.' In no more than 5 minutes he
should have about 30 contacts, if there were that many on the pass.
The training that the new dx op receives is great because it gets them
on the air. However, with an FM transponder, you have to do things a bit
differently to maximize your efforts.
If we had some type of procedure, then everyone that tries to get the dx
station on all dxpeditions would know when someone says see who he has
heard, they would pause and give him a break to give his list. It will
work very smoothly once everyone understands how to do it. Even those
that do not subscribe to amsat-bb will know when someone says, 'stop
transmitting, see who he has heard' will understand what that means. As
the AO-51 command team setup the second transponder for the dxpedition's
use, those that are not into hunting dx/grids can remain on the primary
transponder.
73...bruce
On 2/24/2009 7:31 AM, Bob Bruninga wrote:
> The situation on AO-51 is called the "tragedy of the commons" and is
aspredictable as day and night and an inescapable result of human nature. See
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
>
> No amount of grousing and complaining, and high minded condemnation of
others is going to change that. What we need to do is not try to change human
nature (my wife has been trying to do that her entire life with little to show
for it), but either live with it and take advantage of it, orchange the
paradigm.
>
> I have been recommending for years that we solve it like we do any amateur
radio net. That is, operate with volunteer net control operators that take
checkins by region or other discriminant for the duration of the pass. On
each exchange, he announces the next narrow selection and takes checkins.
Ever mindful of the satellite location on the map.
>
> Examples from a pass from Sandiego to Maine:
> "This is N6XXX taking checkins from K6's in SOCAL"
> "Now W6's... Now A6's.... Now N6's.
> "This is N6XXX taking checkins from HT's in SOCAL
> "now W0's... now K0's, now ...
> "Handing over to Net Control in the Central States...
> and so forth.
>
> How do you define Net Control? Easy. the first guy with the most powerand
stamina.
>
> Can you think of problems, sure! There are all kinds of complaints and
issues and why-not-me, and how-could you limit my rights... etc... that we
will hear, but operating as a net has always been the method in radio to gain
some semblance of order, and we should be proud of our tradition in that
regard.
>
> What about contesting and points, and scores, etc? That is easy. We
define a contact as a 2 way between every person that got his full call and
grid or location through. After all, that is what a net control does,
facilitate the many-way exchange of information between all users.
>
> If net control hears of a DEMO, or DX station or special event, or
emergency traffic, or island expedition, he can then give that station the
attention it needs.
>
> Anyway, this method cannot be worse than what we have now (which is a free-
for-all which is setup to fail as the tragedy of the commons). We operated
PCSAT2 FM voice repeater sometimes with a net control and it was nice and
orderly and fun.
>
> Anyway, there is the solution. Either try it, or keep complaining
forever...
>
> Bob, Wb4APR
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0200z on SkyScanner Satellite Radio Network on Galaxy-
25 @xxx West,
Transponder 23 (12115 Vert), Symbol Rate: 22425, APID: 1794 (DVB Free To Air)
Also streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:06:27 -0500
From: David - KG4ZLB/M?ZLB <m0zlb@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: the tyranny of the military
To: Dave Aitch <dave@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: 'AMSAT-BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <49A40CF3.2080508@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dave,
Once the K5D dx - expedition finishes, most of this problem will go away
and we can get back to the regular organised chaos on AO-51 :-D All of
the non-AMSAT, non-AMSAT website (and bulletin board) reading operators
will magically disappear as fast as they arrived.
I tried on occasions for a Q with K5D, I was astonished to find out
subsequently that during some of the passes they were actually on but
you just couldn't tell, it was truly awful!
Living in AO-51's footprint has been a nightmare on the QRP repeater, I
wish them well but will be glad when its over!
Regards to Carol!
David
KG4ZLB/M0ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com
Dave Aitch wrote:
> Hi Bob et al.
>
> A net may work in the U.S. but I doubt it
> would work in the E.U.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Dave. G1OCN
> AMSAT UK 5766
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: [amsat-bb] the tyranny of the military
>
> Greetings from Patrick N2OEQ
>
> Regarding bruninga's post suggesting even more control over the
> satellite..........
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:10:43 -0500
From: David - KG4ZLB/M?ZLB <m0zlb@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: the tyranny of the military
To: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <49A40DF3.4070906@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Oops sorry, hit "reply all" by mistake!
David
KG4ZLB/M0ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com
David - KG4ZLB/M?ZLB wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Once the K5D dx - expedition finishes, most of this problem will go away
> and we can get back to the regular organised chaos on AO-51 :-D All of
> the non-AMSAT, non-AMSAT website (and bulletin board) reading operators
> will magically disappear as fast as they arrived.
>
> I tried on occasions for a Q with K5D, I was astonished to find out
> subsequently that during some of the passes they were actually on but
> you just couldn't tell, it was truly awful!
>
> Living in AO-51's footprint has been a nightmare on the QRP repeater, I
> wish them well but will be glad when its over!
>
> Regards to Carol!
>
> David
> KG4ZLB/M0ZLB
> www.kg4zlb.com
>
>
>
> Dave Aitch wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:13:16 -0500
From: "Scott Gillis N3UJJ" <lists@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: the tyranny of the military
To: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADwTBcKJ1wFMlbOCcy87bbrigAAAEAAAAKSUxwS7hxVDtFm+
0XL7HHoBAAAAAA==@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
WOW !!!!!
It's time I jumped in with my 2 cents worth of opinion (that's all it's
worth)
I might not agree with Bob 100% of the time, but I when I'm being honest
with myself I realize that for the most part, Bob's posts to this mailing
list are well thought out. I have never seen Bob get emotional (in the time
I have been on the list), even when others are attacking him.
In all fairness, when I got started in APRS, I made some really bad
screw-ups that would have gotten badly flamed by some, but Bob took the time
to politely inform me of my mistakes.
Bob can be biased at times, but so are most of us (at times). But what he
has contributed to OUR hobby has been enormous, and I think he deserves
credit for his contributions.
Scott Gillis N3UJJ
<http://n3ujj.com/hamshack.html> My Hamshack
<http://location.n3ujj.com/> My Current Location
<http://weather.n3ujj.com/> My Amateur Weather Station
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
~Abraham Lincoln~
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Thomas McGrane
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 09:36
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] the tyranny of the military
Greetings from Patrick N2OEQ
Regarding bruninga's post suggesting even more control over the
satellite.... Bruninga and the military has too much control over the
space program and amsat satellites.
Look what happened to the space station, years of military devised
packet position reporting and very little "human" contact.
I recommend you all think for yourselves and remember, this is AMATEUR
radio, NOT PROFESSIONAL.
Regarding activity on oscar 51, its great to hear the excitment of new
operators but very disappointing to hear so many regulars almost every
day. Give some new people a chance.
Bruninga reminds me of the movie title, "the world is not enough"
Think for yourselves!
pat
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:23:05 -0500
From: "Greg Dober" <almetco@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Tragedy of the commons
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <006001c99693$cabe7c50$6701a8c0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not that bad of an idea. Since I collect grids too, many times I just sit
back and see if there is a grid square that I need. I try not to make more
than one or two calls if possible on an FM LEO. Many times, even though I
am not in a rare grid square, (FN00), I will get a call. I will try to
answer it in between transmissions, but most of the time I purposely-go
silent to allow others to work certain stations.
I find in a 10-minute pass, many contacts can be made. I think common sense
could eliminate the problems. If the bird is crowded, do not run a pileup
and CQ if you are not considered a rare grid square. If someone needs you,
they will call you as you exchange with someone else.
In addition, I hear the wx forecast and other personal info being given
between operators. One small exchange between two stations took 50 seconds.
Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you take 8 to 10% of a footprint to chat
abt the wx from Ohio to Illinois for example, you encourage others to fight
for the limited time and footprint left.
Lastly, not sure how many can use the SSB birds. It seems many times I have
called or searched an 11-minute VO-52 pass and heard no one. If you want to
discuss wx, your gallbladder etc, well AO-7, FO-29 and VO-52 are great birds
for that. Common sense.
Greg
N3MVF
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Bob Bruninga
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:32 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Tragedy of the commons
The situation on AO-51 is called the "tragedy of the commons" and is as
predictable as day and night and an inescapable result of human nature. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
No amount of grousing and complaining, and high minded condemnation of
others is going to change that. What we need to do is not try to change
human nature (my wife has been trying to do that her entire life with little
to show for it), but either live with it and take advantage of it, or change
the paradigm.
I have been recommending for years that we solve it like we do any amateur
radio net. That is, operate with volunteer net control operators that take
checkins by region or other discriminant for the duration of the pass. On
each exchange, he announces the next narrow selection and takes checkins.
Ever mindful of the satellite location on the map.
Examples from a pass from Sandiego to Maine:
"This is N6XXX taking checkins from K6's in SOCAL"
"Now W6's... Now A6's.... Now N6's.
"This is N6XXX taking checkins from HT's in SOCAL
"now W0's... now K0's, now ...
"Handing over to Net Control in the Central States...
and so forth.
How do you define Net Control? Easy. the first guy with the most power and
stamina.
Can you think of problems, sure! There are all kinds of complaints and
issues and why-not-me, and how-could you limit my rights... etc... that we
will hear, but operating as a net has always been the method in radio to
gain some semblance of order, and we should be proud of our tradition in
that regard.
What about contesting and points, and scores, etc? That is easy. We define
a contact as a 2 way between every person that got his full call and grid or
location through. After all, that is what a net control does, facilitate
the many-way exchange of information between all users.
If net control hears of a DEMO, or DX station or special event, or emergency
traffic, or island expedition, he can then give that station the attention
it needs.
Anyway, this method cannot be worse than what we have now (which is a
free-for-all which is setup to fail as the tragedy of the commons). We
operated PCSAT2 FM voice repeater sometimes with a net control and it was
nice and orderly and fun.
Anyway, there is the solution. Either try it, or keep complaining
forever...
Bob, Wb4APR
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:45:00 -0900
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: the tyranny of the military
To: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <200902241545.n1OFj0JT053321@xxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hmm,
Well, too bad AO-51 isn't mode-VU. I could get on with my 55kW ERP
2m Moon-bounce signal and "fry the little sucker"...He he (I'm only
kidding) ;-)
Whatever "rule" that is devised, it would bring some order to the chaos!
I recall a big station acting as "gate keeper" or "Net" (if you want
to call it that), and helping facilitate quite few QSO's thru the
short time span of a Leo pass.
OK, I'm back to Oscar-Zero (never mind my noise) ;-)
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 06:13 AM 2/24/2009, Scott Gillis N3UJJ wrote:
>
>
>WOW !!!!!
>
>It's time I jumped in with my 2 cents worth of opinion (that's all it's
>worth)
>
>
>
>I might not agree with Bob 100% of the time, but I when I'm being honest
>with myself I realize that for the most part, Bob's posts to this mailing
>list are well thought out. I have never seen Bob get emotional (in the time
>I have been on the list), even when others are attacking him.
>
>In all fairness, when I got started in APRS, I made some really bad
>screw-ups that would have gotten badly flamed by some, but Bob took the time
>to politely inform me of my mistakes.
>Bob can be biased at times, but so are most of us (at times). But what he
>has contributed to OUR hobby has been enormous, and I think he deserves
>credit for his contributions.
>
>
>
>
>
>Scott Gillis N3UJJ
> <http://n3ujj.com/hamshack.html> My Hamshack
> <http://location.n3ujj.com/> My Current Location
> <http://weather.n3ujj.com/> My Amateur Weather Station
>
>
>
>Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
>~Abraham Lincoln~
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
>Behalf Of Thomas McGrane
>Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 09:36
>To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>Subject: [amsat-bb] the tyranny of the military
>
>
>
>Greetings from Patrick N2OEQ
>
>
>
>Regarding bruninga's post suggesting even more control over the
>
>satellite.... Bruninga and the military has too much control over the
>
>space program and amsat satellites.
>
>
>
>Look what happened to the space station, years of military devised
>
>packet position reporting and very little "human" contact.
>
>
>
>I recommend you all think for yourselves and remember, this is AMATEUR
>
>radio, NOT PROFESSIONAL.
>
>
>
>Regarding activity on oscar 51, its great to hear the excitment of new
>
>operators but very disappointing to hear so many regulars almost every
>
>day. Give some new people a chance.
>
>
>
>Bruninga reminds me of the movie title, "the world is not enough"
>
>
>
>Think for yourselves!
>
>
>
>pat
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:56:09 -0000
From: "Dave Aitch" <dave@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 debacle.
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000401c99698$6ac17af0$404470d0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sent to me by anymouse.
> Best use suggestions:
>
> Let the Chinese use it for target practise.
Made I laugh anyway me ansum.
Cheers, Dave.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:04:25 -0000
From: "Dave Aitch" <dave@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: the tyranny of the military
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000601c99699$90ae6240$b20b26c0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Much the same as when in Bermuda Dave.
I still don't know who I worked, apart from yourself.
Carol couldn't keep up because of the noise.
It will be a bit quieter in VP8 though.
Cheers,
Dave.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:54:16 -0500
From: robert sondack <robertsondack@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Manual
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <7628F20022454B64BED12ABF7288BB97@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I need the ICOM 471A Service Manual to recalibrate my equipment who has
drifted 1.5 kHz ,with age.The manual could be on paper form or CD.
Thanks in advance,
Robert Sondack,VE2ASL.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:36:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 <faunt@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Manual
To: robertsondack@xxxxxxxxx.xx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20090224163609.E6DC78FDE0@xxxxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
As has often stated on the ICOM list, no one has ever seen a
IC-471 Service Manual. The IC-271 Service Manual seems to be a useful
reference, and MTS has this information-
http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/mts/271471.html
73, doug
From: robert sondack <robertsondack@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:54:16 -0500
I need the ICOM 471A Service Manual to recalibrate my equipment who
has drifted 1.5 kHz ,with age.The manual could be on paper form or
CD.
Thanks in advance,
Robert Sondack,VE2ASL.
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:53:08 -0500
From: "Scott Gillis N3UJJ" <lists@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Manual
To: "'robert sondack'" <robertsondack@xxxxxxxxx.xx>,
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADwTBcKJ1wFMlbOCcy87bbrigAAAEAAAAPHtV4V/S5FKp553
QKFpALMBAAAAAA==@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Have you tried the Manual Exchange Group?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manual_Exchange/
Scott Gillis N3UJJ
My Hamshack <http://n3ujj.com/hamshack.html>
My Current Location <http://location.n3ujj.com/>
My Amateur Weather Station <http://weather.n3ujj.com/>
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
~Abraham Lincoln~
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of robert sondack
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:54
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Manual
I need the ICOM 471A Service Manual to recalibrate my equipment who has
drifted 1.5 kHz ,with age.The manual could be on paper form or CD.
Thanks in advance,
Robert Sondack,VE2ASL.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 90
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