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CX2SA > SATDIG 07.02.09 20:32l 879 Lines 35103 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. NOAA-19 launched (Mineo Wakita)
2. WSR-036 Weekly Satellite Report and other credibility issues
(G0MRF@xxx.xxxx
3. Re: NOAA-19 launched (Mike Rupprecht)
4. Re: HEO naivete (Mike and Paula Herr)
5. Re: NOAA-19 launched (Mineo Wakita)
6. Re: WSR-036 Weekly Satellite Report and other
credibilityissues (Andrew Glasbrenner)
7. Re: HEO naivete (Dee)
8. Re: HEO naivete (Andrew Glasbrenner)
9. Re: HEO naivete (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
10. RE: Re: HEO na?vet? (Gary "Joe" Mayfield)
11. Re: HEO naivete (James Duffey)
12. Re: Re: HEO na?vet? (Jeff Davis)
13. Was HEO naivete; now GEO rideshare frequency choice, etc.
(Andrew Glasbrenner)
14. Fwd: [PNWVHFS] Dish available (w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxxx
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:01:09 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] NOAA-19 launched
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <A9C9891361F503ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
NOAA-N-Prime (NOAA-19) launched at 10:22UTC, 6 Feb 2009.
WXtoImg Version 2.9.3 Released.
This new version supports NOAA-19.
NOAA-19
1 33591U 09005A 09037.47464079 -.00000043 00000-0 00000+0 0 16
2 33591 098.7318 346.7380 0015655 243.2097 116.8530 14.10795454 03
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NOAA-N-Prime/main/
http://www.wxtoimg.com/
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/noaapice.htm
JE9PEL, Mineo Wakita
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:24:24 EST
From: G0MRF@xxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] WSR-036 Weekly Satellite Report and other
credibility issues
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <cee.4fdb2c1c.36bee588@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Just received my weekly update on the satellite scene.
Read through and found.
1) A number of satellites proposed for launch that were in fact launched
last month.
2) Eagle : Proposed for launch 2009
3) P3E: Proposed for launch late 2008
4) Delfi C3 listing "proposed frequencies" when in fact it's been in
space for nearly a year.
No doubt there are other errors but I gave up reading.
Clearly there is a lot of copy and pasting going on here with no serious
updating at all.
I know it is really important that information for the report comes from
the mission controllers, but somewhere along the line a little common sense
editing is appropriate if any degree of credibility is to be given to this
service.
David
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:35:57 +0100
From: "Mike Rupprecht" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NOAA-19 launched
To: "'Mineo Wakita'" <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000a01c98929$022edd60$068c9820$@xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Mineo,
I added two NOAA-19 images (European northbound passes of 1121 UTC and 1301
UTC) to my Satblog as well.
Images are noise free from 2 degr South to 2 degr North :-)
http://www.dk3wn.info/p/
73, Mike
DK3WN
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx Im
Auftrag von Mineo Wakita
Gesendet: Samstag, 7. Februar 2009 12:01
An: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Betreff: [amsat-bb] NOAA-19 launched
NOAA-N-Prime (NOAA-19) launched at 10:22UTC, 6 Feb 2009.
WXtoImg Version 2.9.3 Released.
This new version supports NOAA-19.
NOAA-19
1 33591U 09005A 09037.47464079 -.00000043 00000-0 00000+0 0 16
2 33591 098.7318 346.7380 0015655 243.2097 116.8530 14.10795454 03
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/NOAA-N-Prime/main/
http://www.wxtoimg.com/
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/noaapice.htm
JE9PEL, Mineo Wakita
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 06:12:35 -0800
From: Mike and Paula Herr <herr@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <498D96D3.7090903@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Bob,
You are 100% right! After reading the latest AMSAT Journal, I have
absolutely no idea where AMSAT is going! Frankly, it appears to be
chaos. I have donated and was on the verge of more donations as well as
signing up for Life Member, but I have held back, waiting to see if
AMSAT will even survive. I have volunteered, 3 times, and never have
even gotten a courtesy response. Experience? I worked in the aerospace
industry and have equipment flying on the Shuttle every flight and am
involved with CEV. Frustrated? you bet!
See you on AO-7 and VO-52.
73
Mike WA6ARA
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:24:30 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NOAA-19 launched
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <AAC9892FCA673Eei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello DK3WN Mike,
http://www.nasa.gov/mp4/312237main_van_020609_noaa_launch_pod.mp4
JE9PEL, Mineo Wakita
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:17:46 -0500
From: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: WSR-036 Weekly Satellite Report and other
credibilityissues
To: <G0MRF@xxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <D3971535FED24748ADF6472F62F0B3B9@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I'm sure James would appreciate any and all help with editing and preparing
the report that anyone may wish to offer. We have so many active operators,
many of which are retirees, that could pitch in with a few emails a week to
help keep things on track.
73, Drew KO4MA
----- Original Message -----
From: <G0MRF@xxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 8:24 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] WSR-036 Weekly Satellite Report and other
credibilityissues
> Just received my weekly update on the satellite scene.
>
> Read through and found.
>
> 1) A number of satellites proposed for launch that were in fact launched
> last month.
> 2) Eagle : Proposed for launch 2009
> 3) P3E: Proposed for launch late 2008
> 4) Delfi C3 listing "proposed frequencies" when in fact it's been in
> space for nearly a year.
>
> No doubt there are other errors but I gave up reading.
> Clearly there is a lot of copy and pasting going on here with no serious
> updating at all.
>
> I know it is really important that information for the report comes from
> the mission controllers, but somewhere along the line a little common
> sense
> editing is appropriate if any degree of credibility is to be given to this
> service.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 10:26:04 -0500
From: Dee <morsesat@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <498DA80C.7080409@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Hi all,
I have followed this thread and "we" seem to have the same scenario in
common. We were spoiled with
the HEO birds of the past. The LEO birds are fun and have their place
and fill a void we feel. Others enjoy LEO's
just fine and they are certainly entertaining to the Ham community in
themselves. I don't believe that AMSAT has
abandoned any thought and engineering towards an HEO or MEO bird. We
have inherited the present
monetary and financial situations in assembly and "launching" of future
birds.
If you read past editorials about our future, it might seem grim,
however, the talks that are behind the scenes and
agreements that are being hammered out could lead to a fruitful
experience for AMSAT. Reading these posts, beginning
with W7LRD, it sure is positive that he feels the way most of us do that
on a continuing basis in supporting AMSAT
providing a presence in the Amateur Radio Community as the catalyst for
providing satellites to be launched as
opportunities arise. This is not something to be taken lightly. ITAR
has restricted us inconveniently in the Ham
community since hams have always shared thoughts on construction
techniques and designs in radios since
Ham frequencies have stirred with QSO's.
I have attended many Symposiums and had discussions with all the major
players and they need us to support them
with both financial and volunteer efforts to let them know what
directions we want them to take with this organization.
Somehow, if you remember, we forget this VOLUNTEER organization (one
paid staff, Martha) has provided this
hobby with many years of satellite activity & adventures. It has only
happened with excited members doing all
sorts of things to assist with assembling and funding satellites.
The thoughts jotted down by these threads, again, seem to ring
familiar with our group. Those that have volunteered
recently and in the past, need to keep hamsats alive by representing our
thoughts as we are presently doing and realize the
hierarchy of AMSAT "IS" listening and hears us as efforts in the
directions we want it to go are alive and well.
73,
Dee, NB2F
AMSAT Co-ordinator (NJ)
Please renew your membership, have your club join, or send in your
membership application now!
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:27:44 -0500
From: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
To: "Mike and Paula Herr" <herr@xxxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <7A581DB3217D4463BB2C9ACE608968AF@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Mike,
What method did you volunteer by? I ask because we have recently found dead
ends on the webpage that need to be taken care of, and also because I'm
certain we could find some niche for your particular skills.
I agree that there is not a strong sense of direction in the organization
right now. One reason is that we are desperately in need of more volunteers
that are willing to take on projects, ranging from updating web pages and
email lists, to actually building hardware. We are finally starting to get
some traction on our biggest issue, ITAR. Nothing dissuades a volunteer more
than the looming threat of federal prison or a crushing fine for talking to
the wrong foreign national about the wrong widget. We've recently retained
some excellent legal help who is making good headway into a workable
solution for our situation, and I have faith that we will soon emerge from
the woods.
If someone has the motivation to volunteer, the best way to do so is a email
or preferably a phone call to the AMSAT officer or person responsible for
that area or project. Meanwhile I'll continue to try to get the obviously
broken web tools taken down, but that is difficult without a webmaster.
73, Drew KO4MA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike and Paula Herr" <herr@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 9:12 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
> Bob,
> You are 100% right! After reading the latest AMSAT Journal, I have
> absolutely no idea where AMSAT is going! Frankly, it appears to be
> chaos. I have donated and was on the verge of more donations as well as
> signing up for Life Member, but I have held back, waiting to see if
> AMSAT will even survive. I have volunteered, 3 times, and never have
> even gotten a courtesy response. Experience? I worked in the aerospace
> industry and have equipment flying on the Shuttle every flight and am
> involved with CEV. Frustrated? you bet!
> See you on AO-7 and VO-52.
> 73
> Mike WA6ARA
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:39:33 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
To: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "Mike and Paula
Herr" <herr@xxxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<020720091539.4684.498DAB34000695F50000124C22230682329B0A02D2089B9A019C0
4040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hey everyone,
I?m reading this thread with great interest.
Thank you, Mr. McBride, for this statement:
?Amateur radio operators are .02 % of the US population. Boy do we have
influence!?
Further refinement is necessary to get the full grasp of the current
landscape.
AMSAT-NA?s membership represents .05 percent of America?s licensed amateur
radio population, based on the numbers I heard at the Space Symposium in
Atlanta last October.
The full perspective is this:
Two-tenths of one percent of America?s population holds amateur licenses, and
AMSAT-NA?s membership represents one-half of one percent of that number.
This thread leaves me believing that there really are two issues serving as
the foundation of this discussion:
1 ? Lack of the resources necessary to launch additional amateur payloads into
any orbit.
2 ? Lack of consensus on what AMSAT-NA?s focus should be.
I welcome correction, but these appear to me to be the two major issues this
thread includes.
In the most general of terms, I believe issue No. 1 above is most important,
and will continue to be. I remain convinced that unless/until AMSAT?s
membership grows to represent a much more significant chunk of the existing
amateur radio population, we will do little more than continue to read each
other?s opinions ? here and elsewhere ? on why progress isn?t occurring.
I spent six years handing public relations for Tracker Boats, a sister company
to Bass Pro Shops and the largest freshwater boat builder in the world. During
my tenure, countless requests for support crossed my desk literally on a daily
basis. An angler needed a boat to become a professional fisherman. Bass clubs
needed boats as tournament prizes. Non-profits needed boats to raffle as fund-
raisers. The list goes on and on. At the root of every request was a need to
determine how that financial support would, at the end of the day, help
Tracker Boats as much as it helped the people and/or organizations seeking
support.
AMSAT, while positioned and active as a tremendous educational resource, can?t
claim any clout in the amateur radio community, let alone with the public. To
those who disagree, I ask simply that you explain to me how an organization
that represents such a tiny fraction of the amateur radio community ? let
alone this country?s overall population ? can honestly claim to have clout.
With that in mind, I challenge every current AMSAT member to recruit one new
member between now and Dayton in May. Sign up another ham. If you?re hesitant
to donate to AMSAT, as some have noted in posts here, make a small gesture by
buying a ham friend an AMSAT membership. Or, buy a local science teacher an
AMSAT membership. Buy a membership for your local public library so the
Journal will appear on its periodicals shelves. I am saddened every time I
think about this group?s active membership number. Our current dues-paying
roster cannot support the development, construction and launch of satellites ?
regardless of their intended orbits ? which means that outside support is
crucial. Membership larger and stronger than currently exists is just as
crucial to getting potential benefactors to consider AMSAT and its mission
with more than passing interest.
I understand most sides of the debate about AMSAT?s focus, although I don?t
agree with the suggestion that chaos reigns. If so, then it must at other ham
organizations, too, because they certainly have a variety of interests to
support within their membership.
If there is one element of this we all ought to reach consensus on, it?s the
fact that each one of us is doing what we do on the satellites for our own
very personal reasons. As a result, each one of us has at least a slightly
different idea of what AMSAT should be doing to keep amateur radio in space.
My hope is that whatever flies, moving forward, will enable me to continue
refining my skills as they relate to providing emergency communications ? the
very foundation of the FCC?s authorization of the amateur service in this
country. Since making my first-ever satellite contact slightly more than seven
months ago, I have assembled a station that can be totally portable and
totally battery powered. That station will operate from 160 meters through 70
centimeters in all modes. I can pack it, transport it, set it up and be on the
air in less than an hour, excluding drive time to whatever location I need to
reach. I have worked seven satellites and the ISS with this station, including
full-emergency-power contacts. The station is full-duplex and supports all
modes available to licensed amateurs, including on full emergency power.
Last Wednesday morning, we held that annual tornado siren test here. I was
positioned at a siren location, and was able to hit every repeater tested
during the operation with near-full-quieting signals using my handheld
satellite station. Everything I have done on the satellites to date has
application to emergency communications, and I use every pass to have fun by
making contacts in orbit and, I the process, refine the skills I?ll need
during a real emergency situation.
I hope future satellites are configured to allow me to continue that practice.
Please understand ? I am NOT saying this is what we all should be doing. I?m
saying that this is what I enjoy about working the satellites.
In conclusion ? I really AM saying that what we ALL should be doing is ?
whatever we can to grow AMSAT?s membership. I have been and will continue to
do that. I hope more reading this thread will, too.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
-------------- Original message from "Andrew Glasbrenner"
<glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>: --------------
> Hi Mike,
>
> What method did you volunteer by? I ask because we have recently found dead
> ends on the webpage that need to be taken care of, and also because I'm
> certain we could find some niche for your particular skills.
>
> I agree that there is not a strong sense of direction in the organization
> right now. One reason is that we are desperately in need of more volunteers
> that are willing to take on projects, ranging from updating web pages and
> email lists, to actually building hardware. We are finally starting to get
> some traction on our biggest issue, ITAR. Nothing dissuades a volunteer more
> than the looming threat of federal prison or a crushing fine for talking to
> the wrong foreign national about the wrong widget. We've recently retained
> some excellent legal help who is making good headway into a workable
> solution for our situation, and I have faith that we will soon emerge from
> the woods.
>
> If someone has the motivation to volunteer, the best way to do so is a email
> or preferably a phone call to the AMSAT officer or person responsible for
> that area or project. Meanwhile I'll continue to try to get the obviously
> broken web tools taken down, but that is difficult without a webmaster.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike and Paula Herr"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 9:12 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
>
>
> > Bob,
> > You are 100% right! After reading the latest AMSAT Journal, I have
> > absolutely no idea where AMSAT is going! Frankly, it appears to be
> > chaos. I have donated and was on the verge of more donations as well as
> > signing up for Life Member, but I have held back, waiting to see if
> > AMSAT will even survive. I have volunteered, 3 times, and never have
> > even gotten a courtesy response. Experience? I worked in the aerospace
> > industry and have equipment flying on the Shuttle every flight and am
> > involved with CEV. Frustrated? you bet!
> > See you on AO-7 and VO-52.
> > 73
> > Mike WA6ARA
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 09:50:24 -0600
From: "Gary \"Joe\" Mayfield" <gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO na?vet?
To: "'Amsat BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV40FE61213FFCB8EC75F8A08ABE0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My observations...
I miss the HEOs too, and I believe our AMSAT-DL friends have an HEO
basically waiting in the closet if a ride were to show (I know that's an
over-simplification).
I think a phase IV shared space satellite would/could be a great boon to
emergency communications! And our public relations! But I fear it would be
about as much fun to work as dialing my cell phone, no tracking, no Doppler,
100% predictable propagation. Okay, more reliable than my cell phone.
The microwave thing always gets me though. If the antennas are too big how
come they can get them on cube sats? I know the correct statement is
high-gain antennas are too big. The problem is gain antennas need some
pointing mechanism (complicated and expensive) and they need to be pointed
no matter what band they are designed for. When using omni antennas the
lower frequency will yield higher performance due to lower path loss....
The bottom line is to keep building what ever we can get up there, and make
sensible use of reasonable frequencies. I'm still glad AMSAT-NA built and
orbited AO-51 as opposed to dumping all of our resources in Eagle which I
believe would still be on the ground anyway.
73,
Joe kk0sd
At 04:28 PM 2/6/2009, Rocky Jones wrote:
>Bob...Your "rant" strikes me as pretty close to right on the
>money. I read the missive in the latest journal about 3.3 and 5.6
>ghz links and thought "thats nice, It will never happen".
>
>A baseline requrement for ANY Amateur satellites should be that
>they work on frequencies and modulation methods which are consistent
>with radios that are already commercially manufactured for the bands
>in question...or can use some very easily (think the MDS converters)
>commercial gear for other services.
>
>The instant the "bird" is designed with some type of radio in mind
>that does not exist now and is limited to that bird...then the
>entire adventure is nice but has little practical value.
>
>Why on earth is the AMSAT community wasting time on a design which
>requires a ground station that is (by the latest Amsat Journal)
>"beyond the scope of most hams". Instead of spending time working
>on making an 'acp capable earth station within the reach of most
>radio amateurs".
>
>Because if the equipment has little value beyond a satellite which
>could do an Oscar 40 at any time how many are going to shell out the money?
>
>I dont have a clue why the AMSAT design folks seem to think that it
>isnecessary to drive up into the microwave frequencies. They never
>seem to answer the question why a 2meter 70cm translator is not a
>good solution...and the one that we really need.
>
>Meanwhile AO-7 flies on.
>
>Robert WB5MZO life member
Well, there are a few reasons:
1- 2m & 70cm antennas are large and it takes a large satellite to support
them
2- Microwave antennas are physically smaller and yet will provide more gain
3- Microwave frequencies are quieter (low sky noise) so they work
better with low noise receivers; some mw freqs. are less impacted by
interference and/or pirate stations.
When such a mw satellite can be launched, many sources of equipment
will surface. Downeast Microwave and Kuhne Electronics will come out
with equipment when there is a market for them.
73, Ed - KL7UW
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 09:05:22 -0700
From: James Duffey <JamesDuffey@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO naivete
To: kc6uqh@xxx.xxx
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, Mike and Paula Herr
<herr@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <FD45DC66-214B-4F46-B794-F5847CFA6722@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Feb 6, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Art McBride wrote:
>
> Amateur radio operators are .02 % of the US population. Boy do we have
> influence!
>
Art's math needs some revision. There are about 600,000 hams in the
US. The US population is 300,000,000. Thus, 0.2% of the US population
are hams, not 0.02%.
Interestingly enough, this error is roughly the same as the ratio of
the height of an LEO to the height of an HEO.:^)= - Duffey
--
KK6MC
James Duffey
Cedar Crest NM
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:10:02 -0500
From: Jeff Davis <ke9vee@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO na?vet?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<76d6fe480902070810l5095905csbfa0c68ead271286@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Gary Joe Mayfield
<gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> The microwave thing always gets me though. If the antennas are too big how
> come they can get them on cube sats? I know the correct statement is
> high-gain antennas are too big. The problem is gain antennas need some
> pointing mechanism (complicated and expensive) and they need to be pointed
> no matter what band they are designed for. When using omni antennas the
> lower frequency will yield higher performance due to lower path loss....
CubeSats buzz around 180 miles over your head. At apogee, AO-13 was
23,000 miles from the ground.
That's why the gain antennas were needed and when you add up the power
required for a transponder to handle lots of stations at the same
time, then the link budgets and antenna sizes (for more gain) at
higher frequencies begin to make a LOT more sense.
The tightrope the developers walked was always how to deliver
performance on frequencies that stubborn members demanded always be
used. The S-mode stuff held much promise with AO-40. James Miller,
G3RUH presented all the superior reasons for S-mode (the paper is
still in the archives) but for a large percentage of members it was
always "2 meters on the downlink or I will withhold funding".
Just like those who raise a stink now whenever almost anything is
proposed requiring more than a fifteen year old dual band handheld and
an Arrow antenna...
Sigh.
As has been hinted around this thread, our problems are almost 100%
self-inflicted. We have shot our toes off until we have none left to
shoot. I don't blame the leadership -- this "club" contains some of
the most stubborn individuals in all of hamdom. Perhaps if AMSAT can
stick around long enough, the naysayers will all eventually die off
and we can move forward with reality instead of dreamy-eyed
reminiscing about days gone by and what might have been.
Jeff, KE9V
AMSAT-NA
AMSAT-DL
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:38:10 -0500
From: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Was HEO naivete; now GEO rideshare frequency
choice, etc.
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>, "Amsat
BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: k3io@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <3329ED42DAD94882A228CA12CEF6F2FB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=original
Bear with me as I try to clear up some misunderstanding about the
frequencies proposed for the GEO rideshare proposal. Hopefully Tom will
chime in here if and when I get something wrong; the proposal was his. As he
will probably tell you I was not his biggest supporter, but I think I've
come to understand why he made the choices he did. Keep in mind Tom's
proposal was just that, a proposal. Even he described it as a strawman
proposal.
There were a few different driving factors for this rideshare proposal. One
was the real estate available to us. We were offered a few boxy shaped areas
on the order of 12 to 18 inches on a side, the exact numbers escape me.
There would not have been much room for any sort of gain antenna for lower
frequencies, which unlike a cubesat, is really required at GEO altitudes and
amateur array sizes and typical power levels.
A second driving factor was funding. The initial suggested costs rapidly
grew to the point where this could not be accomplished strictly with amateur
funding, and we would have to solicit support from a governmental agency. We
would need a carrot for them to justify their funding, and that carrot was
emergency communications. The usefulness of such a system would require that
some decent amount of data be moved, and the required groundstation be small
and portable. An additional factor was the assumption that a ground station
using a small dish might also be useful for allowing hams in CC&R restricted
homes to participate on the sly outside of times of emergencies, by
masqerading as a TVRO dish as protected by FCC rule. (I personally had
reservations about this last line line of thinking regarding CC&Rs and the
TVRO exemptions).
There was also concern about interference to the primary spacecraft
frequencies, so the frequencies suggested were driven by what were hoped
would provide the least amount of possible interference to our landlords on
the satellite. Any interference at all would probably mean the end of our
mission.
As discussions progressed, there was some dissension among the BOD about the
frequencies chosen and the digital versus analog issues. Tom revised the
microwave system design to include both analog and digital modes. More link
analysis by others showed we could possibly go as low as 1.2 GHz and 435 MHz
for some services, but not at the same ground station size or the same
amount of bandwidth. These would likely have been analog systems, and their
inclusion may have been to the detriment of the microwave services that were
the carrot -that would pay for the launch-. Frequency selection was a big
catch-22.
Warning, more of my personal opinion ahead! In the end, it was a mostly moot
exercise because our landlord found another tenant for the immediate launch
who could pay the rent out of pocket. We may have additional opportunities
down the road, but the price tag will not likely ever get smaller. We
realized we have not much experience at going to government for financial
supoort, and that will have to be addressed before we try this again. We'll
need someone who knows how to write grant proposals to help us. If this is
you, please directly contact one or all of the senior leadership. I
personally am also not sure we have the manpower to commit to a large
short-fuse project.
Some good things did come out of this exercise. As a result AMSAT has an
engineering task force who is now coordinating the creation and cataloging
of individual modules that can be used to seize very short term
opportunities for flight. Personally, I envision us placing secondary
packages on larger, funded satellites, as the best way to orbit in the
future. A transponder on a GPS satellite, or a FM repeater on a university
nanosat, or a digipeater on a cubesat...this I believe is our widest and
most direct path to the orbit. We should also expand on leveraging our
capabilities as a distributed telemetry collection service as a means to
acquire space for secondary packages for our own use. Delfi C-3 is a good
analog of what our future with the cubesat community should look like.
Meanwhile, there are several of us who are very active in trying to identify
these flight opportunities, but we could use more help. We have a few things
in the works, one of which is not LEO, but we are not at a point were we
could discuss them openly. ( A favorite saying of mine, first rule of fight
club is we don't talk about fight club, at least until we think it's safe)
We have many members that work in aerospace and if you are one of them and
you think there may be an opportunity to fly a package on one of your
projects, PLEASE contact myself or one of our other officers directly.
To the other BOD members and involved parties, I apologize if you think I
have misrepresented anything; please feel free to offer corrections directly
to the group.
73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT-NA VP Operations and Director
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:04:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fwd: [PNWVHFS] Dish available
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<293270484.1302451234029869043.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.
xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I am not involved with this item. I am just passing the information along.?
Someone might post it on a EME BB, I am? not familiar with EME.
73 Bob W7LRD
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: lhurd@xxxxxxxx.xxx
To: "PNWVHFS" <PNWVHFS@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2009 12:06:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [PNWVHFS] Dish available
A friend of mine in the Seattle area is quitting his downlinking
business, and has a couple of dishes on trailers for sale . One is a 3
meter and one is a 3.7 meter. Both are fiberglass and made by AFC
(Which I believe was Microdyne). The are both capable of ku band. They
are on dual axle trailers. He is Ken Staeger and can be contacted at
KenStaeger@xxx.xxx. Prices are negotiable, but he needs them gone
soon.
Lynn
WB7UNU
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------------------------------
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 60
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