| |
CX2SA > SATDIG 28.12.08 16:37l 1069 Lines 33648 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 62197_CX2SA
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V3 675
Path: IZ3LSV<IK2XDE<DB0RES<DK0WUE<SP7MGD<CX2SA
Sent: 081228/1532Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:62197 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:62197_CX2SA
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW (Art McBride)
2. ISS V/U repeater active, and audio recording ISS rep. on
Japan. (Cor)
3. what positioner interfaces exist? (Eric Fort)
4. ISS repeater V/U and EVA timeline comment (andy thomas)
5. Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW (Jim Leder)
6. Building an EggBeater (PE0SAT)
7. Re: Building an EggBeater (John Marranca, Jr)
8. Possible YUBILEINY RS-30 event (andy thomas)
9. NA1SS today (Perry Yantis)
10. Re: NA1SS today (Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BAR])
11. ISS V/U Pass (Scott Schmautz)
12. Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 23:10:42 -0800
From: "Art McBride" <kc6uqh@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
To: "'David Donaldson'" <wb7dru@xxxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <2EC4FD38BB19403AA1C1A4B34995BDAE@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
It "works" is a relative term. An 8 cylinder car running on 5 cylinders
still "works"
In the process of learning about antennas the fine points should include:
1. A good front to back ratio on the receive side to reduce ground noise.
2. The satellite band is very narrow so some sacrifice of front to back
ratio for the 2 M side for an additional 1.5 dB of gain may help in
marginal
conditions.
3. Insulation of the boom to the elements will reduce losses, and lower
frequency. If elements make good solid contact to the boom and are tuned
to
the right frequency this loss is very small.
4. Changes in conductivity of element to boom contact will cause
performance
to vary.
5. If there is any corrosion on any electrical contact area of the
antenna,
including boom to element contact, receiver blocking can occur. Avoid
using
dissimilar metals to prevent corrosion.
6. Most of the fun is finding solutions to these problems. Start by
looking
at how antennas are built. There are some very clever designs of antennas
in
the market place. Many of these problems have already had multiple
solutions
applied.
Art,
KC6UQH
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of David Donaldson
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:24 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
The issue is really application of the antenna. A poor antenna in this
case
is using one where it's not designed for. Just because something costs
less
does not mean it will NOT work in the application you have for it (double
negative). For example a high gain boom antenna will work poorly as a
handheld antenna due to it narrow beamwidth and in ability to point at
target.
Case in point, we can all drive Suburban's because there is 10" of snow on
the ground but why? A Camry will work just as well if all I need is to
travel main highways.
I know that based on using the Arrow holding by hand it is better then a
dipole so it at least better then about 2.15dbi and using it I know that I
can get at least twice the RX power when pointed down it's boresite so
it's
about 3db of gain over the dipole (0 dBd). That would make it ABOUT 5 db.
I would like to see the plots of the patterns of the tests done on the
arrow, also what the range looked like and equipment used. I have seen
commercial antenna companies' mess up antenna measurements. Properly done
engineering tests will align with what is experienced in the field, if it
doesn't then its an oops. 4dBi would mean not much better then a wet
noodle....
Point: The arrow works well for its application and is worth the money if
your application is a handheld or simple tripod mounted antenna. I say
it's
is worth the money because it works.
73,
Dave
Burnsville, MN
WB7DRU; NNN0AXK
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Jim Danehy
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:35 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW
. there is the old adage that you get what you pay for . . . why buy a
poorly designed antenna that does not work very well
> ?
>
> If you have a 5 element yagi that only produces 4 dbi you are not getting
> what you paid for . . . most 2 element yagis would out perform that
> statistic . . . a 5 element yagi should be at least 9 db + or 10 db dbd
> (dipole ) not isotropic . . . . there is something that is called
> MERCHANTABILITY . . .i.e., an IMPLIED WARRANTY that you are getting at
> least the minimum for your money . . .
> 4 dbi for an Arrow is way off base . . . so it is not just ; you can not
> afford a Cadillac but you are not even getting a Ford or Chevy . . i.e.,
> the gain of a 5 element yagi on 435 mhz . . . that is the issue, not cost
> alone . . . . . . same comments apply to the ELK but I have attempted to
> make the point that there is a minimum performance for a certain number of
> elements that is pretty OBJECTIVE and when it is not met . . . . well
> that is my point . . . these two antennas have shown to some testers that
> they do not measure up to the minimum EXPECTATIONS . . .unfortunately that
> is acceptable to some . . . . then it becomes acceptable to many . . .
> and objectivity is abandoned . . .
>
> Jim W9VNE
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trey Brown" <palintheus@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy@xxxxx.xx.xxx>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ELK or ARROW
>
>
>> Thanks for the comments. Realize, though, that not everyone wants or
>> can afford to have the Cadillac.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jim Danehy <jdanehy@xxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
>>> the Arrow antenna has been critiqued by Kent Britain, WA5VJB
>>>
>>> http://wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf
>>>
>>> he says that some have measured the Arrow for gain on 435 mhz @ 4 dbi
>>> (isotropic) . . . . and that further analysis showed that for the
>>> element lengths used on 435 mhz that it peaks at 457 mhz and not 435 mhz
>>> . . . Kent is a well respected VHF/UHF antenna person who has plenty of
>>> credibility . . .
>>>
>>> Kent opines that the Arrow, as built does not have its elements
>>> insulated from the boom. It uses dimensions for insulated elements . . .
>>> so much for the Arrow . . . .
>>>
>>> Now for the ELK : a local friend of mine owns an Arrow and he uses it
>>> successfully. He bought an ELK and attempted to compare the Arrow and
>>> the ELK . . . . he could not make an across town QSO on 435 mhz from his
>>> second story window with the ELK , so he sent the ELK back for a refund
>>> .
>>>
>>> I have worked and exchanged QSLs with several hundred satellite users .
>>> . .the majority of the folks that have worked and QSLed me (close to 250
>>> + ) have been using either the Arrow or ELK based upon the information
>>> on their cards. So they are popular. Are they optimum ? A lot of
>>> anecdotal information would seem to say NO . . .
>>>
>>> Thirty-five years ago I worked Oscar 6 with a homebrew 2 mtr yagi that
>>> probably was worse than either the Arrow or Elk but I worked YV and KL7
>>> from Indiana on CW with about 15 watts to the 3 elements which my XYL
>>> waved around at my directions . . . not any more . . .what do I use
>>> these days : a pair of circular polarity yagis on 10 foot booms
>>> manufactured by M Square . . . .
>>>
>>> Folks ask what should they buy ? Maybe a Ford or maybe a Chevy . . .
>>> neither is a Cadillac . . . .
>>>
>>> Jim W9VNE
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Trey -- N5THX
>>
>> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
>> - Benjamin Franklin
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! --
http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
database 3719 (20081227) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:22:44 +0100
From: "Cor" <spacecor@xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS V/U repeater active, and audio recording ISS
rep. on Japan.
To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <003b01c968c5$75a196e0$6401a8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello All,
This morning I worked only a few stations via the
ISS V/U crossband repeater.
Probably many people are not aware that it is active now.
TX Uplink: 145.990Mhz FM (with 67hz tone!!!).
RX Downlink: 437.800Mhz FM (adjust doppler few khz up and down).
Renember this V/U mode is not useal and was sceduled for this
25 years ham radio in space event (for December 2008).
I have received an audio recording from JA0CAW with ISS V/U repeater
on Japan.
I have posted the audio recording on my website.
Good luck (to all) if you trie.
73's Cor PD0RKC
http://iss.ontwikkel.nl
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:56:42 -0800
From: "Eric Fort" <eric.fort@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] what positioner interfaces exist?
To: "AMSAT-BB bb" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<2ad2af430812280056i4ea6a4f3jc98de73ec50df405@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I've been looking at how tracking hardware interfaces to positioner
hardware. There seems to be multiple ways used to induce movement and
multiple ways to sense/track position. some seem to require up,
down, right, left (4 bit) control signals along with an analog voltage
provided for position indication while others may just count pulses to
track position and may use unipolar vs bipolar motors. I've also seen
syncros and steppers used. What is being used and what is common for
positioner interface requirements? What means are used to sense/track
position and what signaling is needed by various systems to induce a
change to that position?
Thanks,
Eric
AF6EP
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:02:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: andy thomas <andythomasmail@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS repeater V/U and EVA timeline comment
To: amsat <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <242362.49143.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Having not had hide nor hair of the ISS over the holiday, /p in Cornwall -
making do with the Mighty KBC on Shortwave, hi - was very pleased to hear
her
again on the V/U repeater at 1018utc today, very low elevation over the
Atlantic.
2E0EUB very strong initially, called him but incompletely relayed (which
is
all I could manage), then him in IO92BX working David G8OQW, and then
when
overhead spain EA1ESA called and EA1BYC working him.
Would be great if it were left on this combination just a day or so more?
BTW I was interested to see that on the Timeline for 22/23 December the
crew
switched comms into a standard mode for EVAs:
"2050/2100: FE-1: Pre-EVA comms config reconfiguring C&W indication from
[Cyrillic PSS] (Caution & Warning panel) to [Cyrillic POV] (EVA support
panel)"
and switched back at 07:40/55
- this must mean that 143.625 acts as a rebroadcast channel during EVAs.
Good
to know (unless just with Russian suits).
73 de andy G0SFJ
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:06:29 -0500
From: "Jim Leder" <k8cxm@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
To: "Amsat" <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <F825C962E7DC47838DE4ED75F100AA9D@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Is it really worth it for .3 DB gain? Seems you would be better served by
not using the diplexer.
Reference http://www.csvhfs.org/ant/CSANT06.HTML
I continue to be amazed how people can judge by just looking at imagined
numbers. Seems that practical hands on experience has no bearing on how
good
or bad the Arrow or the Elk antenna is, but just conjecture over assumed
specifications makes them less than a 'Ford or Chevy'?
If you need a handheld satellite antenna, you have pretty much 3 choices:
-The 'bad' Arrow
-The equally 'bad' Elk
-make your own Arrow clone, which according to the numbers is far superior
(what's that they say about imitation?)
I have an Arrow and have 'field tested' the Elk. I stuck with the Arrow.
My
OPINION, it's better. Others disagree. I contemplated building an Arrow
clone, as there are several websites that tell you how. Are they better?
Perhaps, but I got to think that a DB or 2 won't make that much
difference.
Believe what you want, but I believe the Arrow works just fine the way it
it is.
Jim Bob Buckeye
AKA
**** Jim Leder****
K8CXM since 1961
IBM retiree since 1999
There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary
and those who don't.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jerzycke" <kq6ea@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>; "Gary Joe Mayfield" <gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
> Or you can just lengthen them 1/4" on a side with a threaded spacer....
> Jim KQ6EA
>
>
> --- On Sat, 12/27/08, Gary "Joe" Mayfield <gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
>
>> From: Gary "Joe" Mayfield <gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
>> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>> Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 8:17 PM
>> Has anyone played with insulating the Arrow elements from
>> the boom? It
>> shouldn't be too hard to do.
>>
>> 73,
>> Joe kk0sd
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx
>> [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
>> Behalf Of Jim Danehy
>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:33 PM
>> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW
>>
>>
>> there is the old adage that you get what you pay for . .
>> . why buy a
>> poorly designed antenna that does not work very well
>> > ?
>> >
>> > If you have a 5 element yagi that only produces 4 dbi
>> you are not getting
>>
>> > what you paid for . . . most 2 element yagis would out
>> perform that
>> > statistic . . . a 5 element yagi should be at least 9
>> db + or 10 db dbd
>> > (dipole ) not isotropic . . . . there is something
>> that is called
>> > MERCHANTABILITY . . .i.e., an IMPLIED WARRANTY that
>> you are getting at
>> > least the minimum for your money . . .
>> > 4 dbi for an Arrow is way off base . . . so it is not
>> just ; you can not
>> > afford a Cadillac but you are not even getting a Ford
>> or Chevy . . i.e.,
>>
>> > the gain of a 5 element yagi on 435 mhz . . . that is
>> the issue, not cost
>>
>> > alone . . . . . . same comments apply to the ELK but I
>> have attempted to
>> > make the point that there is a minimum performance for
>> a certain number of
>>
>> > elements that is pretty OBJECTIVE and when it is not
>> met . . . . well
>> > that is my point . . . these two antennas have shown
>> to some testers that
>> > they do not measure up to the minimum EXPECTATIONS . .
>> .unfortunately that
>>
>> > is acceptable to some . . . . then it becomes
>> acceptable to many . . .
>> > and objectivity is abandoned . . .
>> >
>> > Jim W9VNE
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Trey Brown"
>> <palintheus@xxxxx.xxx>
>> > To: "Jim Danehy"
>> <jdanehy@xxxxx.xx.xxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:39 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ELK or ARROW
>> >
>> >
>> >> Thanks for the comments. Realize, though, that not
>> everyone wants or
>> >> can afford to have the Cadillac.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jim Danehy
>> <jdanehy@xxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
>> >>> the Arrow antenna has been critiqued by Kent
>> Britain, WA5VJB
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf
>> >>>
>> >>> he says that some have measured the Arrow for
>> gain on 435 mhz @ 4 dbi
>> >>> (isotropic) . . . . and that further analysis
>> showed that for the
>> >>> element lengths used on 435 mhz that it peaks
>> at 457 mhz and not 435 mhz
>>
>> >>> . . . Kent is a well respected VHF/UHF antenna
>> person who has plenty of
>> >>> credibility . . .
>> >>>
>> >>> Kent opines that the Arrow, as built does not
>> have its elements
>> >>> insulated from the boom. It uses dimensions
>> for insulated elements . . .
>>
>> >>> so much for the Arrow . . . .
>> >>>
>> >>> Now for the ELK : a local friend of mine owns
>> an Arrow and he uses it
>> >>> successfully. He bought an ELK and attempted
>> to compare the Arrow and
>> >>> the ELK . . . . he could not make an across
>> town QSO on 435 mhz from his
>>
>> >>> second story window with the ELK , so he sent
>> the ELK back for a refund
>> >>> .
>> >>>
>> >>> I have worked and exchanged QSLs with several
>> hundred satellite users .
>> >>> . .the majority of the folks that have worked
>> and QSLed me (close to 250
>>
>> >>> + ) have been using either the Arrow or ELK
>> based upon the information
>> >>> on their cards. So they are popular. Are they
>> optimum ? A lot of
>> >>> anecdotal information would seem to say NO . .
>> .
>> >>>
>> >>> Thirty-five years ago I worked Oscar 6 with a
>> homebrew 2 mtr yagi that
>> >>> probably was worse than either the Arrow or
>> Elk but I worked YV and KL7
>> >>> from Indiana on CW with about 15 watts to the
>> 3 elements which my XYL
>> >>> waved around at my directions . . . not any
>> more . . .what do I use
>> >>> these days : a pair of circular polarity yagis
>> on 10 foot booms
>> >>> manufactured by M Square . . . .
>> >>>
>> >>> Folks ask what should they buy ? Maybe a Ford
>> or maybe a Chevy . . .
>> >>> neither is a Cadillac . . . .
>> >>>
>> >>> Jim W9VNE
>> >>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions
>> expressed are those of the author.
>> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support
>> the amateur satellite
>> >>> program!
>> >>> Subscription settings:
>> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Trey -- N5THX
>> >>
>> >> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a
>> little temporary
>> >> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
>> >> - Benjamin Franklin
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those
>> of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>> satellite program!
>> Subscription settings:
>> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those
>> of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
>> satellite program!
>> Subscription settings:
>> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:23:53 +0100 (CET)
From: "PE0SAT" <pe0sat@xxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Building an EggBeater
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<7ef9c616afde03e261e76962bdab6e24.squirrel@xxxxxxx.xxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Hi,
Does anybody have a good article from building an Eggbeater for 144 and
435 MHz?
Via Google I couldn't find a good one.
Thanks in advance,
PE0SAT
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:36:55 -0500
From: "John Marranca, Jr" <KB2HSH@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Building an EggBeater
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<8edcdb130812280636i387eba78g39a6afcdea15a9c0@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
If I may be so brazen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u7aoHDc-gw&feature=channel_page
Good Luck
John KB2HSH
--
_______________________________
John Marranca, Jr
PBX Technician/Shop Steward CWA Local 1122
BN Systems, Inc
Orchard Park, NY
(716)972-2006
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:51:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: andy thomas <andythomasmail@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Possible YUBILEINY RS-30 event
To: amsat <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <5925.89026.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Following on from Mike DK3WN's successful intercept, I think there's a
possibility of a Yubileiny RS-30 broadcast event on January 2nd or 4th
2009.
January 2nd 1959 (50 years ago) saw the launch of MECHTA (Dream) -renamed
LUNA-1 - which missed the Moon but established two things (according to
the
'net): the Moon has no magnetic field and that the solar wind streamed
into
space. AMSATters will be pleased to hear that it was also the?best dx to
date
(Moon to earth and beyond!)
See for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_1
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/masterCatalog.do?sc=1959-012A
On January 4th she was the first man made object to leave the Earth's
orbit.
I have no tip-off, but a gut feeling that it might be worth a listen on
435.315 or .215 NBFM on the anniversary??
73 de andy g0sfj
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 06:59:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Perry Yantis <py41@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] NA1SS today
To: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <80748.18139.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
NA1SS is on 145.99 up 437.800 dn today will go to 1269.65 up and 145.800
down
later today.
Perry WB8OTH
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:01:32 -0600
From: "Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BAR]" <Kenneth.G.Ransom@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NA1SS today
To: "Perry Yantis" <py41@xxx.xxx>, "Amsat BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<A2862DA1C49F4145AF6C2A452829403501C91AFB@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mike was making general contacts on the 1455 UTC pass over N. America.
Kenneth - N5VHO
________________________________
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx on behalf of Perry Yantis
Sent: Sun 12/28/2008 8:59 AM
To: Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] NA1SS today
NA1SS is on 145.99 up 437.800 dn today will go to 1269.65 up and 145.800
down
later today.
Perry WB8OTH
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:12:52 -0500
From: "Scott Schmautz" <wb2uzr@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS V/U Pass
To: amsat-florida@xxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<11b740b70812280712u76ab2b69n759bf97eb5dcd9bf@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Just heard a nice pass of the ISS in V/U repeater mode, nice and strong on
the HT. Astronaut Mike was working the pile nicely! Could hear the
stations
he was in QSO with on the downlink quite well. He said L band later today.
Scott/WB2UZR
--
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:18:24 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
To: "Jim Leder" <k8cxm@xxxx.xxx>, "Amsat" <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<122820081518.19991.495798BF000CBAD800004E1722230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
This whole "car talk" line of reasoning set me to wondering ... because
I'm
confident there are "lemon" antennas just like there are autos.
I've been wondering whether your Elk was a lemon, or whether my Arrow was
-
and also whether your Arrow is a "good one" and my Elk is a "good one." I
guess we'll never know.
I couldn't agree with you more about the importance of hands-on
experience.
It's why you stuck with you Arrow and I with my Elk - they work for us,
respectively.
For HT operation only, there are some whips that do, indeed, work the
satellites. My experience here is that 10 degrees is about the limit for
getting into one with a whip like the Pryme AL800 or te Diamond RH-789,
but
the latter receives here very well - better than I expected. Each sells
for
about $35 from HRO. N5AFV has made thousands of contacts using the AL800.
Hope to hear you on the air again soon!
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from "Jim Leder" <k8cxm@xxxx.xxx>:
-----------
---
> Is it really worth it for .3 DB gain? Seems you would be better served by
> not using the diplexer.
>
> Reference http://www.csvhfs.org/ant/CSANT06.HTML
>
> I continue to be amazed how people can judge by just looking at imagined
> numbers. Seems that practical hands on experience has no bearing on how good
> or bad the Arrow or the Elk antenna is, but just conjecture over assumed
> specifications makes them less than a 'Ford or Chevy'?
>
> If you need a handheld satellite antenna, you have pretty much 3 choices:
> -The 'bad' Arrow
> -The equally 'bad' Elk
> -make your own Arrow clone, which according to the numbers is far superior
> (what's that they say about imitation?)
>
> I have an Arrow and have 'field tested' the Elk. I stuck with the Arrow. My
> OPINION, it's better. Others disagree. I contemplated building an Arrow
> clone, as there are several websites that tell you how. Are they better?
> Perhaps, but I got to think that a DB or 2 won't make that much difference.
>
> Believe what you want, but I believe the Arrow works just fine the way it
> it is.
>
> Jim Bob Buckeye
> AKA
> **** Jim Leder****
> K8CXM since 1961
> IBM retiree since 1999
>
> There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary
> and those who don't.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Jerzycke"
> To: ; "Gary Joe Mayfield"
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:42 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
>
>
> > Or you can just lengthen them 1/4" on a side with a threaded spacer....
> > Jim KQ6EA
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 12/27/08, Gary "Joe" Mayfield
> > wrote:
> >
> >> From: Gary "Joe" Mayfield
> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW
> >> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> >> Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 8:17 PM
> >> Has anyone played with insulating the Arrow elements from
> >> the boom? It
> >> shouldn't be too hard to do.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Joe kk0sd
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx
> >> [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
> >> Behalf Of Jim Danehy
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:33 PM
> >> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW
> >>
> >>
> >> there is the old adage that you get what you pay for . .
> >> . why buy a
> >> poorly designed antenna that does not work very well
> >> > ?
> >> >
> >> > If you have a 5 element yagi that only produces 4 dbi
> >> you are not getting
> >>
> >> > what you paid for . . . most 2 element yagis would out
> >> perform that
> >> > statistic . . . a 5 element yagi should be at least 9
> >> db + or 10 db dbd
> >> > (dipole ) not isotropic . . . . there is something
> >> that is called
> >> > MERCHANTABILITY . . .i.e., an IMPLIED WARRANTY that
> >> you are getting at
> >> > least the minimum for your money . . .
> >> > 4 dbi for an Arrow is way off base . . . so it is not
> >> just ; you can not
> >> > afford a Cadillac but you are not even getting a Ford
> >> or Chevy . . i.e.,
> >>
> >> > the gain of a 5 element yagi on 435 mhz . . . that is
> >> the issue, not cost
> >>
> >> > alone . . . . . . same comments apply to the ELK but I
> >> have attempted to
> >> > make the point that there is a minimum performance for
> >> a certain number of
> >>
> >> > elements that is pretty OBJECTIVE and when it is not
> >> met . . . . well
> >> > that is my point . . . these two antennas have shown
> >> to some testers that
> >> > they do not measure up to the minimum EXPECTATIONS . .
> >> .unfortunately that
> >>
> >> > is acceptable to some . . . . then it becomes
> >> acceptable to many . . .
> >> > and objectivity is abandoned . . .
> >> >
> >> > Jim W9VNE
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Trey Brown"
> >>
> >> > To: "Jim Danehy"
> >>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:39 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ELK or ARROW
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks for the comments. Realize, though, that not
> >> everyone wants or
> >> >> can afford to have the Cadillac.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jim Danehy
> >> wrote:
> >> >>> the Arrow antenna has been critiqued by Kent
> >> Britain, WA5VJB
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> http://wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf
> >> >>>
> >> >>> he says that some have measured the Arrow for
> >> gain on 435 mhz @ 4 dbi
> >> >>> (isotropic) . . . . and that further analysis
> >> showed that for the
> >> >>> element lengths used on 435 mhz that it peaks
> >> at 457 mhz and not 435 mhz
> >>
> >> >>> . . . Kent is a well respected VHF/UHF antenna
> >> person who has plenty of
> >> >>> credibility . . .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Kent opines that the Arrow, as built does not
> >> have its elements
> >> >>> insulated from the boom. It uses dimensions
> >> for insulated elements . . .
> >>
> >> >>> so much for the Arrow . . . .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Now for the ELK : a local friend of mine owns
> >> an Arrow and he uses it
> >> >>> successfully. He bought an ELK and attempted
> >> to compare the Arrow and
> >> >>> the ELK . . . . he could not make an across
> >> town QSO on 435 mhz from his
> >>
> >> >>> second story window with the ELK , so he sent
> >> the ELK back for a refund
> >> >>> .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I have worked and exchanged QSLs with several
> >> hundred satellite users .
> >> >>> . .the majority of the folks that have worked
> >> and QSLed me (close to 250
> >>
> >> >>> + ) have been using either the Arrow or ELK
> >> based upon the information
> >> >>> on their cards. So they are popular. Are they
> >> optimum ? A lot of
> >> >>> anecdotal information would seem to say NO . .
> >> .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thirty-five years ago I worked Oscar 6 with a
> >> homebrew 2 mtr yagi that
> >> >>> probably was worse than either the Arrow or
> >> Elk but I worked YV and KL7
> >> >>> from Indiana on CW with about 15 watts to the
> >> 3 elements which my XYL
> >> >>> waved around at my directions . . . not any
> >> more . . .what do I use
> >> >>> these days : a pair of circular polarity yagis
> >> on 10 foot booms
> >> >>> manufactured by M Square . . . .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Folks ask what should they buy ? Maybe a Ford
> >> or maybe a Chevy . . .
> >> >>> neither is a Cadillac . . . .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jim W9VNE
> >> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions
> >> expressed are those of the author.
> >> >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support
> >> the amateur satellite
> >> >>> program!
> >> >>> Subscription settings:
> >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Trey -- N5THX
> >> >>
> >> >> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a
> >> little temporary
> >> >> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> >> >> - Benjamin Franklin
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those
> >> of the author.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> >> satellite program!
> >> Subscription settings:
> >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those
> >> of the author.
> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> >> satellite program!
> >> Subscription settings:
> >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 675
****************************************
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
