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CX2SA > SATDIG 30.07.19 23:01l 633 Lines 23136 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB14290
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Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V14 290
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Sent: 190730/2152Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:11026 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB14290
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: AMSAT-NA solution: DX (HEO) to attract more interest and
revenue (Jean Marc Momple)
2. Re: AMSAT-NA solution: DX (HEO) to attract more interest and
revenue (JoAnne K9JKM)
3. PSAT2 Elliptical Orbit visibility cycles (Robert Bruninga)
4. Re: AMSAT-NA solution: DX (HEO) to attract more interest and
revenue (Zach Metzinger)
5. Transponders For Rent??? (Brad Smith)
6. Re: Transponders For Rent??? (Michelle Thompson)
7. Re: Transponders For Rent??? (John Kludt)
8. Re: Transponders For Rent??? (for free) (Robert Bruninga)
9. Re: Transponders For Rent??? (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
10. Re: Transponders For Rent??? (Robert Bruninga)
11. Still ok to use AO-85 in daylight? (Scott)
12. Re: Still ok to use AO-85 in daylight? (Andrew Glasbrenner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:44:16 +0400
From: Jean Marc Momple <jean.marc.momple@?????.???>
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA solution: DX (HEO) to attract more
interest and revenue
Message-ID: <E2A52A35-6ECA-45A1-8C8B-FC90F2383944@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,
Thanks JoAnne, I was not aware that the debate was already ON on other
forums, lot of info and interesting ideas.
Hopefully, we will find some generous sponsor if all in every country use
their personal contact and influence to convince.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
> On Jul 30, 2019, at 2:56 PM, Ev Tupis via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
>
> VERY informative link, JoAnne. Thank you for posting it (especially for
those of us who just recently re-joined the list after many years of
pursuing other radio-interests).
> Ev, W2EV
>
> On Sunday, July 28, 2019, 8:03:31 PM EDT, JoAnne K9JKM via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Hello Dave,
>
> You raise a topic that comes up often. Sometimes the discussion does not
get anywhere and sometimes exhaustive lists of ideas are compared and
discussed. I'd like to refer you to the most exhaustive recent discussion
regarding HEO/GEO which ran on the QRZ.com forums:
>
>
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/yes-we-do-need-want-a-geo-sat-with-ha
m-transponders-over-the-americas.656562/
>
> - or- use https://tinyurl.com/HEO-GEO-Satellite-Discussion for an
abbreviated URL in case the e-mail system clobbers the long link.
>
> --
> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
> k9jkm@?????.???
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:56:46 -0500
From: "JoAnne K9JKM" <joanne.k9jkm@?????.???>
To: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA solution: DX (HEO) to attract more
interest and revenue
Message-ID: <5d405aae.1c69fb81.82613.c525@??.??????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Hopefully, we will find some generous sponsor if all in every country use
> their personal contact and influence to convince.
My thinking is that people who have $1M, or $10M to donate are usually
looking to give to a cause that they believe in, a cause which "makes a
difference". Examples may include hunger, poverty, refugees, saving an
endangered species, or perhaps climate. Somehow building an expensive
satellite for hobbyists does not rise to this threshold even if we promise
to teach school children about space.
Amateur radio needs to aim high to compete with the causes that "make a
difference".
--
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm@?????.???
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 12:13:28 -0400
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
To: amsat bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] PSAT2 Elliptical Orbit visibility cycles
Message-ID: <1143312447762a3dd24fca4f9fce915b@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
As PSAT2's elliptical orbit is reaching its smallest footprint in the
northern hemisphere, we updated her general predictions. At a latitude of
about 40 degrees, the difference in best elevation angles is about 20
degrees. With best being 29 and worst being about 9 degrees now..
The Apogee/Perigee cycle repeats every 34 days. For northern hemisphere
stations, maximum footprint apogee was 11 July and will be max again
August 13th, etc meaning its about at its worst now.
The cycle for local time-of-day pass times is every 48 days. Noontime
passes were around July 20 and will return about sept 6, moving earlier
each day. Though day-by-day local pass times appear to be about 5 minutes
later each day as shown on the PSAT2 page.
http://aprs.org/psat2.html with a new pass arriving about 90 minutes
earlier every other day.
Northern Hemisphere passes begin around sunrise and Southern Hemisphere is
entering a great operating period with high elevation angles and all
passes now occurring in afternoon daylight and the SSTV will be taking
images with full sun power.
PSAT2 will remain in DTMF uplink mode. PSK31 and SSTV are also on.
Bob, WB4APR
http://aprs.org/sats.html <== all APRS sats
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:34:22 -0500
From: Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-NA solution: DX (HEO) to attract more
interest and revenue
Message-ID: <352d3689-f28b-807d-9ef9-ec594caaf618@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 2019-07-30 09:56, JoAnne K9JKM via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> ... even if we promise to teach school children about space.
>
> Amateur radio needs to aim high to compete with the causes that "make
> a difference".
JoAnne,
This resonates with me, as I see a general decline in the ability of
newly minted engineers coming out of our "higher education"
institutions. Too many distractions have made the average youngster
impatient, sloppy, and poorly focused.
One could blame "the web", the proliferation of handheld devices, online
multi-player gaming, etc. However you slice it, amateur radio just isn't
seen as interesting anymore. We, as a culture, have lost the initiative
to climb the mountain just because it is there.
I think that teaching a new generation of kids about radio, down to the
circuit level with hands-on experiments, is a worthy endeavor. Building
a CW (or even DSB for 10 meters) transmitter and a direct-conversion
receiver can get a newly minted Novice on the air quickly.
However, we, as the amateur radio community, need to focus and immerse
ourselves in the technology so that we can be effective teachers. If you
lack the drive to dig into building, then be the Elmer that helps a
potential or new ham to make her/his first contact on HF.
We need more W1FBs, W7ZOIs, W1GHZs, ... Yes, it's easy to go buy a $25
HT, but the youngster will never know the feeling of personal
satisfaction by building something, debugging it, learning from
mistakes, and getting it to work. Perhaps, one of those fledgling
experimenters will someday become the donor that helps us launch the $1M
satellite.
So, off my soapbox now.
--- Zach
N0ZGO
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:03:08 +0000 (UTC)
From: Brad Smith <corlissbs@???.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Message-ID: <1621668855.927.1564516988262@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Yes, I would rent in a minute. This would be my solution for working the
sats. in the Wisconsin Winter!
Brad Smith KC9UQR
<So, like "FM Tower for Rent", signs as seen all over the U.S., could we
soon see "GEO TV Satellite transponder for rent" as well ?Maybe this could
be an answer to a ham GEO transponder ?>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:14:23 -0700
From: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
To: Brad Smith <corlissbs@???.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Message-ID:
<CACvjz2XGtX8WssdbUVJT3y0j=p=yGSvxaxDhkMdp5KY8Bx5-CA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Since the potential rentable birds generally all use DVB-S2 as a downlink,
then the work Phase 4 Ground is doing to bring that entire standard to open
source amateur radio use would seem to be quite relevant.
Different question is how to handle amateur uplinks, but there are some
internet backhaul options there that would work very well as an
intermediate step.
Great question and discussion.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 13:04 Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Yes, I would rent in a minute. This would be my solution for working the
> sats. in the Wisconsin Winter!
> Brad Smith KC9UQR
> <So, like "FM Tower for Rent", signs as seen all over the U.S., could we
> soon see "GEO TV Satellite transponder for rent" as well ?Maybe this could
> be an answer to a ham GEO transponder ?>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 16:26:42 -0400
From: John Kludt <johnnykludt@?????.???>
To: Brad Smith <corlissbs@???.???>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Message-ID:
<CABsMmtTXrf0ohRRoQ4UuA5pQZeaFLuKN-sW7c894V1sAHU8hjg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Brad,
Indeed - but they won't be free!
John
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 4:04 PM Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
wrote:
> Yes, I would rent in a minute. This would be my solution for working the
> sats. in the Wisconsin Winter!
> Brad Smith KC9UQR
> <So, like "FM Tower for Rent", signs as seen all over the U.S., could we
> soon see "GEO TV Satellite transponder for rent" as well ?Maybe this could
> be an answer to a ham GEO transponder ?>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 16:29:57 -0400
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
To: amsat bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent??? (for free)
Message-ID: <5b240a9c8934ab932c0851d95b945263@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Actually there is a geostationary channel that can be used by Ham
Operators that is for free.
https://othernet.is/
About 2 years ago, the APRS satellite ground station captures were made
available worldwide via three GEO satellites for reception anywhere on
earth. But I recently found that the OUTERnet system has changed to a new
GEO satellite constellation and no longer uses INMARSAT L band satellites
but is now using a KA band downlink over the USA. And that they are now
selling a new KA receiver kit for this satellite.
Has anyone kept up with them?
Here is my original WEB page but with the links changed from OUTnet to
OTHERnet, but otherwise, not kept up to date.
http://aprs.org/othernet.html
If anyone has one of their receivers or is receiving the downlink and/or
wants to help me get my web page all cleaned up to what has changed over
the last two years, let me know.
This is a powerful capability. I hope we can keep it working.
The way it is supposed to work is that you can send a specially formatted
APRS packet (position, status or message) on any APRS network (terrestrial
or satellite) and it should get parsed by the APRS-IS. Therer it can be
captured by the OTHERNET non-profit ground station and uplinked to the
APRS channel on their satellites to the downlink that anyone can receive.
Ostensibly a ham radio volunteer global emergency backup channel.
Its round-about, but a possible play-point...
Bob, Wb4APR
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Brad Smith via
AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 4:03 PM
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Yes, I would rent in a minute. This would be my solution for working the
sats. in the Wisconsin Winter!
Brad Smith KC9UQR
<So, like "FM Tower for Rent", signs as seen all over the U.S., could we
soon see "GEO TV Satellite transponder for rent" as well ?Maybe this could
be an answer to a ham GEO transponder ?>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:01:06 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>, Brad Smith <corlissbs@???.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Message-ID:
<CAFvUaiqrk_EmY6LvrhJyCMVKoX5X_U=SFN2tH6RkEKAzZaUcXQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Wouldn't the fact the uplink wasn't happening on amateur radio
frequencies or perhaps indirectly then backhauled over the internet
then uplinked on Commerical frequencies remove the "amateur radio
component"? thus bring into question whether it's really open and
within the ethos of the hobby? it would be like MMDVM which doesn't
really appeal to me.
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 21:25, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Since the potential rentable birds generally all use DVB-S2 as a downlink,
> then the work Phase 4 Ground is doing to bring that entire standard to open
> source amateur radio use would seem to be quite relevant.
>
> Different question is how to handle amateur uplinks, but there are some
> internet backhaul options there that would work very well as an
> intermediate step.
>
> Great question and discussion.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 13:04 Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I would rent in a minute. This would be my solution for working the
> > sats. in the Wisconsin Winter!
> > Brad Smith KC9UQR
> > <So, like "FM Tower for Rent", signs as seen all over the U.S., could we
> > soon see "GEO TV Satellite transponder for rent" as well ?Maybe this could
> > be an answer to a ham GEO transponder ?>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:24:06 -0400
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
To: amsat bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Message-ID: <709c9320ed97ffea5b01ef91cb6c1ca2@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
They are taking a publically available capture file of APRS traffic
(available to anyone on FINDU.COM) and uplinking a copy of it to their
satelilte non-profit file system.
With the creativity of some hams. I see potential for experimentation in
finding ways to use this capability for Amateur radio disaster response in
remote areas. We listen to broadcast NOAA weather reports and make use of
that too.
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message-----
From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Peter Goodhall
(2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 5:01 PM
To: Michelle Thompson <mountain.michelle@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>; Brad Smith <corlissbs@???.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Transponders For Rent???
Wouldn't the fact the uplink wasn't happening on amateur radio frequencies
or perhaps indirectly then backhauled over the internet then uplinked on
Commerical frequencies remove the "amateur radio component"? thus bring
into question whether it's really open and within the ethos of the hobby?
it would be like MMDVM which doesn't really appeal to me.
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 21:25, Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Since the potential rentable birds generally all use DVB-S2 as a
> downlink, then the work Phase 4 Ground is doing to bring that entire
> standard to open source amateur radio use would seem to be quite
relevant.
>
> Different question is how to handle amateur uplinks, but there are
> some internet backhaul options there that would work very well as an
> intermediate step.
>
> Great question and discussion.
>
> -Michelle W5NYV
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 13:04 Brad Smith via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I would rent in a minute. This would be my solution for working
> > the sats. in the Wisconsin Winter!
> > Brad Smith KC9UQR
> > <So, like "FM Tower for Rent", signs as seen all over the U.S.,
> > could we soon see "GEO TV Satellite transponder for rent" as well
> > ?Maybe this could be an answer to a ham GEO transponder ?>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
> > available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring
> > membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and
> > do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> > Subscription settings:
> > https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to
all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:42:19 -0400
From: Scott <scott23192@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Still ok to use AO-85 in daylight?
Message-ID:
<CAJCSnOYAdh9xtaoM1gWkcts3BbX-QqBnRMUQWN9vk5W_qZ0ssQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good day!
Just wanted to make sure it was still ok to use AO-85 when it's illuminated.
Here it is just after 5:30pm local time on a sunny day and I almost had the
entire pass all to myself across the Great Lakes, Ohio Valley, &
Mid-Atlantic until George (WA5KBH) finally came in right at the end of my
footprint.
Made me worry that I might have missed an instruction about the use of
AO-85 since this is not what you normally expect on an FM satellite mid-day.
Thanks!
-Scott, K4KDR
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:48:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@??????????.???>
To: Scott <scott23192@?????.???>, amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Still ok to use AO-85 in daylight?
Message-ID:
<609836977.8908.1564523302818@???????????.???.??.?????????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Yes, please feel free to use it while illuminated!
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
>Sent: Jul 30, 2019 5:42 PM
>To: amsat-bb@?????.???
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Still ok to use AO-85 in daylight?
>
>Good day!
>
>Just wanted to make sure it was still ok to use AO-85 when it's illuminated.
>
>Here it is just after 5:30pm local time on a sunny day and I almost had the
>entire pass all to myself across the Great Lakes, Ohio Valley, &
>Mid-Atlantic until George (WA5KBH) finally came in right at the end of my
>footprint.
>
>Made me worry that I might have missed an instruction about the use of
>AO-85 since this is not what you normally expect on an FM satellite mid-day.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Scott, K4KDR
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
>are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership. Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 290
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