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CX2SA > SATDIG 18.12.13 16:23l 1251 Lines 43513 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Object IDs (Mike Rupprecht)
2. ISS Repair EVAs Scheduled, Cygnus Launch Delayed (B J)
3. Returning Satellite User (Joel Black)
4. *AMSAT* on Echolink (Bruce)
5. Re: EA/N8MH QRV on satellites from Madrid, Spain during
holidays (Francisco Jim?nez-Mart?n S?nchez)
6. satellite average elevation & new birds (Ted)
7. Re: Returning Satellite User (Ted)
8. Re: satellite average elevation & new birds (Clayton Coleman)
9. Re: Object IDs (Nico Janssen)
10. Re: satellite average elevation & new birds (Robert Bruninga)
11. Re: Object IDs (Rick Tejera)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:13:57 +0100
From: "Mike Rupprecht" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xx>
To: "'Nico Janssen'" <hamsat@xxxxxx.xx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
Message-ID: <000001cefb6c$e6366f90$b2a34eb0$@xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Nico, PA0DLO for pointing me in the rigth direction. I agree with you
the TLE for the cubesats:
39436 2013-066W Eagle 2 ($50Sat) ok
39438 2013-066Y Velox PII ok
39439 2013-066Z First-MOVE ok
39440 2013-066AA CubeBug 2 ok
39444 2013-066AE AMSAT-OSCAR ok :-)
39445 2013-066AF HiNCube ?
39446 2013-066AG UWE 3 ok
Just made a deep analysis with the FunCube TLE (Object AE vs. AF). The pass
was not very high but every seconds I switched between the TLE AE and AF.
You can see a slightly differnce (only a few Hz) at TCA what leads me to say
- your're right. FUNCube-1 seems indeed to be Object AE.
http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?p=39682
73 Mike
DK3WN
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx Im
Auftrag von Nico Janssen
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Dezember 2013 14:32
An: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Betreff: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
All,
Further doppler measurements show that TshepisoSat (aka ZACube 1) is object
39417 (2013-066B) and AMSAT-OSCAR 73 (aka FUNCube 1) is object
39444 (2013-066AE). Therefore HiNCube must be object 39445 (2013-066AF).
It is not easy to get a good doppler curve with many Cubesats because of the
limited transmissions and because of the frequency drift of their beacon
transmitters.
These object IDs from the Dnepr launch seem to be correct, although some
still need to be confirmed (tbc):
39416 2013-066A Aprizesat 7
39417 2013-066B TshepisoSat
39418 2013-066C Skysat 1
39419 2013-066D Dubaisat 2
39421 2013-066F Unisat 5
39422 2013-066G STSat 3
39423 2013-066H WNISat 1
39425 2013-066K Aprizesat 8
39427 2013-066M Triton 1
39428 2013-066N Delfi-n3Xt
39429 2013-066P Dove 3
39430 2013-066Q GomX 1
39431 2013-066R BRITE-PL
39432 2013-066S HumSat D (tbc)
39436 2013-066W Eagle 2 ($50Sat) (tbc)
39438 2013-066Y Velox PII (tbc)
39439 2013-066Z First-MOVE (tbc)
39440 2013-066AA CubeBug 2 (tbc)
39444 2013-066AE AMSAT-OSCAR 73
39445 2013-066AF HiNCube
39446 2013-066AG UWE 3 (tbc)
73,
Nico PA0DLO
On 2013-12-01 16:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
> All,
>
> An update on the satellite IDs.
>
> Still no IDs are available for the satellites launched from the ISS
> (except TechEdSat 3P) and the Minotaur.
>
> Several IDs have been published for the objects from the Dnepr launch
> but many need to be confirmed. Still not all TLEs are released.
>
> AMSAT-OSCAR 73, ZACube 1 and HiNCube were launched from the same ISIPOD.
> As they initially were close together, the JSpOC decided to release
> only one TLE set for this cluster under object number 39417
> (2013-066B). Now the distances between these satellites are slowly
> increasing. So the question is which satellite is object 39417.
> Detailed doppler measurements show that ZACube 1 is now about 25 s
> early compared to the TLE for object 39417, while OSCAR 73 is about 11
> s early. This seems to indicate that object 39417 is actually HiNCube.
> Hopefully TLEs for OSCAR 73 and ZACube 1 will be published soon.
>
> 73,
> Nico PA0DLO
>
>
> On 2013-11-23 11:32, Nico Janssen wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> An overview of the presently known IDs for the satellites that have
>> been launched recently.
>>
>> ISS JSSOD Cubesat launches
>> 2013-11-19 12:18 UTC
>> 39412 1998-067DA Pico Dragon ?
>> 39413 1998-067DB ArduSat 1 ?
>> 39414 1998-067DC ArduSat X ?
>> To be confirmed when the objects have more separation.
>> 2013-11-20 07:58 UTC
>> 39415 1998-067DD TechEdSat 3P
>>
>> Minotaur 1, Wallops Flight Facility
>> 2013-11-20 01:15 UTC
>> ORS3 & ELaNa 4: 29 satellites
>> So far only 4 TLEs published. No IDs yet but probably:
>> 39380 2013-064A STPSat 3
>>
>> Dnepr, Yasny
>> 2013-11-21 07:10:11 UTC
>> 32 satellites
>> 19 TLEs published
>> 39417 2013-066B FUNcube 1
>> 39427 2013-066M Triton 1
>> 39428 2013-066N Delfi-n3Xt
>>
>> Note that all designations may change later on.
>>
>> 73,
>> Nico PA0DLO
>>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:49:40 +0000
From: B J <va6bmj@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS Repair EVAs Scheduled, Cygnus Launch Delayed
Message-ID:
<CAP7QzkMna9kvSZ4f4ExjpONhXoQTo=7zO==LCBVN2vQ9Nw06GQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
http://www.nasa.gov/press/2013/december/nasa-postpones-orbital-launch-sets-spa
cewalks-to-repair-faulty-station-pump/
http://moonandback.com/2013/12/17/nasa-sets-spacewalks-to-repair-faulty-statio
n-pump-module/
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/12/antares-cygnus-mission-to-iss-delayed/
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/space-flight-news/antares-launch-delayed-to-
allow-eva-to-fix-coolant-loop/
The booster was at the pad when the announcement was made:
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/space-flight-news/orbitals-antares-rolled-ou
t-to-pad-0a-in-hopes-of-launch/
http://moonandback.com/2013/12/17/orbitals-orb-1-cygnus-iss-resupply-craft-mov
es-to-launch-pad/
http://moonandback.com/2013/12/17/cygnus-at-launch-pad-station-crew-prepares-f
or-spacewalks/
http://www.americaspace.com/?p=46890
73s
Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:50:07 -0600
From: Joel Black <w4jbb@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Amsat BB <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Returning Satellite User
Message-ID: <52B0E32F.6030403@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
For whatever reason, I have gotten interested in amateur satellites
again after being away for almost 10 years.
I've gone through the last two months in the archives and I have a
couple of things:
1. I saw some questions about the the K3. I have the K3 and the KX3 and
do not know of a satellite app that will "talk" to them. Both use "a
Kenwood" command set, but I do not know which. Thus far, I have not been
able to get either SatPC32 or MacDoppler to talk to my K3.
2. I have access to an FT-847 I sold my father several years ago. This
is the radio I used on the satellites when I was active. I had initially
thought about buying the 2m transverter for the K3, but after talking to
many users of that transverter and explaining what I wanted to and that
I had access to the FT-847, it was advised that I go with the FT-847.
3. I have a 2m / 70cm QHTenna turnstile pair. I *also* have an Arrow
144/432 antenna. I think either pair will work well from my
plywood-decked, shingle roof. I would like to use the Arrow, but (a) I
don't have a good way to point it, and (b) I cannot find the gain. If
memory serves, it has a fairly good gain around 4dB for 2m and 6 dB for
70cm. I don't know that there's any gain to the turnstiles, but at least
I won't need a rotor for those. Any other advice here?
4. I also have the AG-25 2m preamp. I know the FT-847 will power this
preamp. It is not quite as good as the DEM preamps, but it's what I
have. Any suggestions here?
I am really not interested in the FM satellites. I am very interested in
the linear transponders - especially CW. Any CW ops out there? I'm still
slow (13 - 15WPM), but I'm working on my speed. From what I've read, the
linear transponders are on AO-7, FO-29 (I cut my teeth on FO-20), VO-52,
and AO-73. It looks like AO-7 is both mode A and mode B, FO-29 is mode
J, and both VO-52 and AO-73 are mode B. It sounds like there is really a
lot to play with up there.
73,
Joel - W4JBB
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:52:19 -0600
From: Bruce <kk5do@xxxx.xxx>
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] *AMSAT* on Echolink
Message-ID: <52B0F1C3.8000208@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
it appears that the conference *AMSAT* on Echolink is no longer working.
you can still listen to the houston amsat net from our internet stream
at http://www.amsatnet.com
scroll down a bit on the main page.
73...bruce
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0200z on Echolink - Conference *AMSAT*
Also live streaming MP3 at http://www.amsatnet.com
Podcast at http://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News
http://www.arrl.org
AMSAT on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/amsat
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 01:52:23 +0100
From: Francisco Jim?nez-Mart?n S?nchez <ea1jm.fran@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "'Mark L. Hammond'" <marklhammond@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: 'Amsat - BBs' <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: EA/N8MH QRV on satellites from Madrid, Spain
during holidays
Message-ID: <009901cefb8b$6a8b8f00$3fa2ad00$@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Mark,
Yes, here in Europe we use to give the complete locator with the six
positions and is commonly done by the sats operators, so if you have a
smartphone you can find a lot of apps that can show you the complete
locator based on the integrated gps of the device. If you visit this page:
http://www.ea1uro.com/ea.htm you?ll see all the districts that is divided
Spain for the ham radio operators.
Hope to hear you on the birds, and if you have internet access when you
come to Spain, we can arrange a schedule.
73!
De: Mark L. Hammond [mailto:marklhammond@xxxxx.xxxx
Enviado el: martes, 17 de diciembre de 2013 20:00
Para: Francisco Jim?nez-Mart?n S?nchez
CC: Amsat - BBs
Asunto: Re: [amsat-bb] EA/N8MH QRV on satellites from Madrid, Spain during
holidays
Thanks, Fran, for the information. I thought EA4/ was more correct, based
on what I've been reading. And the grids quare information is helpful.
In the summer of 2012 I was fortunate to represent AMSAT-NA at AMSAT-UK
Colloquium and got to operate the GB4FUN station on the air. As I remember,
you all seem to use a 6 position grid squre (IO80pj for example). Is that
commonly done or is it optional, with the 4 position grid square being
considered acceptable?
Hope to work you on the air :)
73!
Mark N8MH
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Francisco Jim?nez-Mart?n S?nchez
<ea1jm.fran@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
Hello Mark and all the people of the list,
I will be nice to hear you on the sats! Madrid is on zone 4 so your call be
more accurate EA4/N8MH and if you're in Madrid your locator will be around
IN80.
Hope to work you on every sat!
Regards from Salamanca, Spain!
73 de EA1JM, Fran
-----Mensaje original-----
De: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx En nombre
de Mark L. Hammond
Enviado el: martes, 17 de diciembre de 2013 14:35
Para: Amsat - BBs
Asunto: [amsat-bb] EA/N8MH QRV on satellites from Madrid, Spain during
holidays
Hello European satellite friends,
It is possible that I will be QRV from Madrid, Spain on FO-29, VO-52,
AO-73, SO-50, and AO-7 (?) while the family is on holiday. This is a
very low priority part of the trip, and I can't predict when I'll be able to
get on the air (limitations of being in the city with poor view to sky,
etc.). But I am going to try at least a few passes one way or another!
The opportunity is from around Dec 24 until Jan 2. My station will be
very simple--FT-817, Elk antenna, and a hand mic. Working half-duplex on
the SSB birds will be very challenging for me! I am spoiled by fully
automated station operations.
So if you hear EA/N8MH, please be patient and say hello :) It may be the
only chance for a QSO with long time friends across the big pond...
Should I be able to post an email note in advance of a specific
pass/satellite, I will do so. But it might not be possible.
73!
--
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
--
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:19:44 -0800
From: "Ted" <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] satellite average elevation & new birds
Message-ID: <001801cefb8f$3c6266e0$b52734a0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm kind of looking for an update from Bob, but can't find his email right
now...
But the question is, in view of what appears to be some renewed interest in
working the new cube sats, et al, is asking Bob to comment on his earlier
thoughts on using antennae at fixed elevations. For me, I'm using my Elk on
a Rat Shack rotor at a fixed el per Bob's recommendations. (I'm still
struggling with PCSAT32...!!!%^&*!!) but, this antenna set up is very cost
effective and seems to perform pretty well.
For example, Joel Black has asked for some advice in an earlier posting. My
concern is that new operators or those returning run out and spend a bunch
of $$$ on a new setup. No one knows how long the current crop will last or
if a new crop is in the future, so probably some caution on the Visa is
warranted.
Just asking (and especially Bob)
73, Ted
K7TRK
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Bob Bruninga
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:23 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: satellite average elevation
> we used a horizontally polarized yagi fixed at 30 degrees above the
> horizon. That worked very well..
Thanks for the confirmation. Yes, elevation rotation is simply not needed
at all for LEO spacecraft and modest beams. A mild, fixed tilt modest beam
is just perfect.
But, the "30 degree" angle myth is very pervasive throughout amsat, whereas,
the optimum angle is more like 15 degrees.
A 30 degree up-tilt gives up too much gain (-3 dB!) on the horizon where
signals are weakest and where satellites spend most of their time, and puts
the gain in an area of the sky where the satellite is already 6 dB stronger
and is rarely there (giving you max beam gain where you need it least).
If you look at the sketches on the web page, the optimum angle is more like
15 degrees up-tilt. It preserves max gain on the horizon within 1 dB (where
it is needed most) and focuses the breadth of its gain on the area of the
sky where the satellites spend something like 95% of their time. For the
missing 5%, the satellite is right on top of you and almost 10 dB stronger
without any beam at all. Oh, and the 15 degree up-tilt beam is also perfect
for Terrestrial operations as well.
See the sketch on: http://aprs.org/rotator1.html
In some future life, if we ever get back to HEO's and huge OSCAR arrays,
then elevation rotors have a place. These high-gain beams have such narrow
gain patterns, that higher precision tracking is a must. (Though it is
complete overkill for LEO's).
Using these OVERKILL arrays for LEO's adds significant complexity to LEO
operation requiring higher precision tracking, elevation rotors, better
timing, fresher element sets and automated operation.
Using a TV rotator and 15 degree fixed tilt beam is much more forgiving...
Bob, Wb4APR
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:28:19 -0800
From: "Ted" <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "'Joel Black'" <w4jbb@xxxxxxx.xxx>, "'Amsat BB'"
<AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Returning Satellite User
Message-ID: <001901cefb90$6f80fdb0$4e82f910$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Joel,
Welcome back..
I don't know much, but I do know that the 847 and SATPC32 seems to work well
as a combo based on the comments here.
On the antenna issue, I suspect the 'turnstiles' may not do what you want.
In a separate post, I have asked Bob Bruninga to comment on the fixed el
issue when using an Elk dual band beam.( I have some pictures of my Elk on a
Rat Shack rotor setup using parts from Home Depot that I can send). This is
a way to turn the Elk manually and at a low cost. (stay tuned for Bob's
reply)
GL and 73,
Ted
K7TRK
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Joel Black
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:50 PM
To: Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] Returning Satellite User
For whatever reason, I have gotten interested in amateur satellites
again after being away for almost 10 years.
I've gone through the last two months in the archives and I have a
couple of things:
1. I saw some questions about the the K3. I have the K3 and the KX3 and
do not know of a satellite app that will "talk" to them. Both use "a
Kenwood" command set, but I do not know which. Thus far, I have not been
able to get either SatPC32 or MacDoppler to talk to my K3.
2. I have access to an FT-847 I sold my father several years ago. This
is the radio I used on the satellites when I was active. I had initially
thought about buying the 2m transverter for the K3, but after talking to
many users of that transverter and explaining what I wanted to and that
I had access to the FT-847, it was advised that I go with the FT-847.
3. I have a 2m / 70cm QHTenna turnstile pair. I *also* have an Arrow
144/432 antenna. I think either pair will work well from my
plywood-decked, shingle roof. I would like to use the Arrow, but (a) I
don't have a good way to point it, and (b) I cannot find the gain. If
memory serves, it has a fairly good gain around 4dB for 2m and 6 dB for
70cm. I don't know that there's any gain to the turnstiles, but at least
I won't need a rotor for those. Any other advice here?
4. I also have the AG-25 2m preamp. I know the FT-847 will power this
preamp. It is not quite as good as the DEM preamps, but it's what I
have. Any suggestions here?
I am really not interested in the FM satellites. I am very interested in
the linear transponders - especially CW. Any CW ops out there? I'm still
slow (13 - 15WPM), but I'm working on my speed. From what I've read, the
linear transponders are on AO-7, FO-29 (I cut my teeth on FO-20), VO-52,
and AO-73. It looks like AO-7 is both mode A and mode B, FO-29 is mode
J, and both VO-52 and AO-73 are mode B. It sounds like there is really a
lot to play with up there.
73,
Joel - W4JBB
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:34:31 -0600
From: Clayton Coleman <kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Ted <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: satellite average elevation & new birds
Message-ID:
<CAPovOwcV=8X4qNf+OmOMX+OrRJx_3cYWzN6RSR5SQ+_rBNUkWw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Just a short time ago after I moved into a new shack, I operated for a
month with an Elk at 15 degrees on a tripod. Armstrong rotor. I worked
all the current satellites right up through the first week we had AO-73's
transponder available.
Pay close attention to comments WB4APR has made about setting the fixed
elevation based on the lowest horizon you can work. For example, if it
takes ten degrees for you to clear a mountain, twenty five degrees is
probably okay. If you have a clear horizon view, fifteen is probably
okay. The goal is to have as much gain available at your lowest elevation
to increase your available range. YMMV
PS A preamp goes a long way in a fixed elevation setup.
73
Clayton
W5PFG
On Dec 17, 2013 7:24 PM, "Ted" <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I'm kind of looking for an update from Bob, but can't find his email right
> now...
>
> But the question is, in view of what appears to be some renewed interest in
> working the new cube sats, et al, is asking Bob to comment on his earlier
> thoughts on using antennae at fixed elevations. For me, I'm using my Elk on
> a Rat Shack rotor at a fixed el per Bob's recommendations. (I'm still
> struggling with PCSAT32...!!!%^&*!!) but, this antenna set up is very cost
> effective and seems to perform pretty well.
>
> For example, Joel Black has asked for some advice in an earlier posting. My
> concern is that new operators or those returning run out and spend a bunch
> of $$$ on a new setup. No one knows how long the current crop will last or
> if a new crop is in the future, so probably some caution on the Visa is
> warranted.
>
> Just asking (and especially Bob)
>
> 73, Ted
> K7TRK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
> Behalf Of Bob Bruninga
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:23 AM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: satellite average elevation
>
> > we used a horizontally polarized yagi fixed at 30 degrees above the
> > horizon. That worked very well..
>
> Thanks for the confirmation. Yes, elevation rotation is simply not needed
> at all for LEO spacecraft and modest beams. A mild, fixed tilt modest beam
> is just perfect.
>
> But, the "30 degree" angle myth is very pervasive throughout amsat,
> whereas,
> the optimum angle is more like 15 degrees.
>
> A 30 degree up-tilt gives up too much gain (-3 dB!) on the horizon where
> signals are weakest and where satellites spend most of their time, and puts
> the gain in an area of the sky where the satellite is already 6 dB stronger
> and is rarely there (giving you max beam gain where you need it least).
>
> If you look at the sketches on the web page, the optimum angle is more like
> 15 degrees up-tilt. It preserves max gain on the horizon within 1 dB
> (where
> it is needed most) and focuses the breadth of its gain on the area of the
> sky where the satellites spend something like 95% of their time. For the
> missing 5%, the satellite is right on top of you and almost 10 dB stronger
> without any beam at all. Oh, and the 15 degree up-tilt beam is also
> perfect
> for Terrestrial operations as well.
>
> See the sketch on: http://aprs.org/rotator1.html
>
> In some future life, if we ever get back to HEO's and huge OSCAR arrays,
> then elevation rotors have a place. These high-gain beams have such narrow
> gain patterns, that higher precision tracking is a must. (Though it is
> complete overkill for LEO's).
>
> Using these OVERKILL arrays for LEO's adds significant complexity to LEO
> operation requiring higher precision tracking, elevation rotors, better
> timing, fresher element sets and automated operation.
>
> Using a TV rotator and 15 degree fixed tilt beam is much more forgiving...
>
> Bob, Wb4APR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:59:31 +0100
From: Nico Janssen <hamsat@xxxxxx.xx>
To: Mike Rupprecht <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
Message-ID: <52B1AA43.3020808@xxxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the confirmation of the 'tbc's.
This picture shows the measured doppler curve of an overhead evening
pass of OSCAR 73, plotted against the calculated curves for objects
39444 and 39445. These objects were about 11 s apart (i.e. about 82 km).
https://thumb5.wuala.com/previewImage/SharedInfo/Space/AO73_20131216.jpg/?key=
IZKufoz9U1Uo
Note the temperature related frequency drift on the beacon transmitter,
which causes frequency deviations when using automatic doppler
correction. To be able to create useful doppler curves it would help if
all Cubesats would transmit a *continuous* carrier signal on a
*constant* frequency... ;-)
Still a lot of IDs are unknown. Of all the objects from the Minotaur
launch, only three are officially identified:
39380 2013-064A STPSat 3
39388 2013-064J SENSE SV1
39392 2013-064N SENSE SV2
It is suggested that Cape 2 is object 39382 (2013-064C) and that KySat 2
is object 39383 (2013-064D). These are to be confirmed.
73,
Nico PA0DLO
On 2013-12-17 22:13, Mike Rupprecht wrote:
> Thanks Nico, PA0DLO for pointing me in the rigth direction. I agree with you
> the TLE for the cubesats:
>
> 39436 2013-066W Eagle 2 ($50Sat) ok
> 39438 2013-066Y Velox PII ok
> 39439 2013-066Z First-MOVE ok
> 39440 2013-066AA CubeBug 2 ok
> 39444 2013-066AE AMSAT-OSCAR ok :-)
> 39445 2013-066AF HiNCube ?
> 39446 2013-066AG UWE 3 ok
>
> Just made a deep analysis with the FunCube TLE (Object AE vs. AF). The pass
> was not very high but every seconds I switched between the TLE AE and AF.
> You can see a slightly differnce (only a few Hz) at TCA what leads me to say
> - your're right. FUNCube-1 seems indeed to be Object AE.
>
> http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?p=39682
>
>
> 73 Mike
> DK3WN
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx Im
> Auftrag von Nico Janssen
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Dezember 2013 14:32
> An: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Betreff: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
>
> All,
>
> Further doppler measurements show that TshepisoSat (aka ZACube 1) is object
> 39417 (2013-066B) and AMSAT-OSCAR 73 (aka FUNCube 1) is object
> 39444 (2013-066AE). Therefore HiNCube must be object 39445 (2013-066AF).
>
> It is not easy to get a good doppler curve with many Cubesats because of the
> limited transmissions and because of the frequency drift of their beacon
> transmitters.
>
> These object IDs from the Dnepr launch seem to be correct, although some
> still need to be confirmed (tbc):
>
> 39416 2013-066A Aprizesat 7
> 39417 2013-066B TshepisoSat
> 39418 2013-066C Skysat 1
> 39419 2013-066D Dubaisat 2
> 39421 2013-066F Unisat 5
> 39422 2013-066G STSat 3
> 39423 2013-066H WNISat 1
> 39425 2013-066K Aprizesat 8
> 39427 2013-066M Triton 1
> 39428 2013-066N Delfi-n3Xt
> 39429 2013-066P Dove 3
> 39430 2013-066Q GomX 1
> 39431 2013-066R BRITE-PL
> 39432 2013-066S HumSat D (tbc)
> 39436 2013-066W Eagle 2 ($50Sat) (tbc)
> 39438 2013-066Y Velox PII (tbc)
> 39439 2013-066Z First-MOVE (tbc)
> 39440 2013-066AA CubeBug 2 (tbc)
> 39444 2013-066AE AMSAT-OSCAR 73
> 39445 2013-066AF HiNCube
> 39446 2013-066AG UWE 3 (tbc)
>
> 73,
> Nico PA0DLO
>
>
> On 2013-12-01 16:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> An update on the satellite IDs.
>>
>> Still no IDs are available for the satellites launched from the ISS
>> (except TechEdSat 3P) and the Minotaur.
>>
>> Several IDs have been published for the objects from the Dnepr launch
>> but many need to be confirmed. Still not all TLEs are released.
>>
>> AMSAT-OSCAR 73, ZACube 1 and HiNCube were launched from the same ISIPOD.
>> As they initially were close together, the JSpOC decided to release
>> only one TLE set for this cluster under object number 39417
>> (2013-066B). Now the distances between these satellites are slowly
>> increasing. So the question is which satellite is object 39417.
>> Detailed doppler measurements show that ZACube 1 is now about 25 s
>> early compared to the TLE for object 39417, while OSCAR 73 is about 11
>> s early. This seems to indicate that object 39417 is actually HiNCube.
>> Hopefully TLEs for OSCAR 73 and ZACube 1 will be published soon.
>>
>> 73,
>> Nico PA0DLO
>>
>>
>> On 2013-11-23 11:32, Nico Janssen wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> An overview of the presently known IDs for the satellites that have
>>> been launched recently.
>>>
>>> ISS JSSOD Cubesat launches
>>> 2013-11-19 12:18 UTC
>>> 39412 1998-067DA Pico Dragon ?
>>> 39413 1998-067DB ArduSat 1 ?
>>> 39414 1998-067DC ArduSat X ?
>>> To be confirmed when the objects have more separation.
>>> 2013-11-20 07:58 UTC
>>> 39415 1998-067DD TechEdSat 3P
>>>
>>> Minotaur 1, Wallops Flight Facility
>>> 2013-11-20 01:15 UTC
>>> ORS3 & ELaNa 4: 29 satellites
>>> So far only 4 TLEs published. No IDs yet but probably:
>>> 39380 2013-064A STPSat 3
>>>
>>> Dnepr, Yasny
>>> 2013-11-21 07:10:11 UTC
>>> 32 satellites
>>> 19 TLEs published
>>> 39417 2013-066B FUNcube 1
>>> 39427 2013-066M Triton 1
>>> 39428 2013-066N Delfi-n3Xt
>>>
>>> Note that all designations may change later on.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Nico PA0DLO
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:16:56 -0500
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
To: Clayton Coleman <kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>, Ted
<k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: satellite average elevation & new birds
Message-ID: <8a384f238fe7e69c6c9114372365e72a@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> ... asking Bob to comment on his earlier thoughts on using antennae at
fixed elevations?
The geometry of LEO satellites has not changed. The optimum angle for a
fixed tilt modest gain YAGI is about 15 degrees (assuming you have a
decent horizon). See:
http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
That said, if your antenna is seriously blocked from all directions below
say 10 degrees, then you are not going to hear anything down there anyway.
So bump it up to say 20 or 25. But 70% of all LEO passes are below 22
degrees so just recognize that you are giving up most of your operations.
Bob, Wb4aPR
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Clayton Coleman
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:35 PM
To: Ted
Cc: AMSAT-BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: satellite average elevation & new birds
Just a short time ago after I moved into a new shack, I operated for a
month with an Elk at 15 degrees on a tripod. Armstrong rotor. I worked
all the current satellites right up through the first week we had AO-73's
transponder available.
Pay close attention to comments WB4APR has made about setting the fixed
elevation based on the lowest horizon you can work. For example, if it
takes ten degrees for you to clear a mountain, twenty five degrees is
probably okay. If you have a clear horizon view, fifteen is probably
okay. The goal is to have as much gain available at your lowest elevation
to increase your available range. YMMV
PS A preamp goes a long way in a fixed elevation setup.
73
Clayton
W5PFG
On Dec 17, 2013 7:24 PM, "Ted" <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I'm kind of looking for an update from Bob, but can't find his email
> right now...
>
> But the question is, in view of what appears to be some renewed
> interest in working the new cube sats, et al, is asking Bob to comment
> on his earlier thoughts on using antennae at fixed elevations. For me,
> I'm using my Elk on a Rat Shack rotor at a fixed el per Bob's
> recommendations. (I'm still struggling with PCSAT32...!!!%^&*!!) but,
> this antenna set up is very cost effective and seems to perform pretty
well.
>
> For example, Joel Black has asked for some advice in an earlier
> posting. My concern is that new operators or those returning run out
> and spend a bunch of $$$ on a new setup. No one knows how long the
> current crop will last or if a new crop is in the future, so probably
> some caution on the Visa is warranted.
>
> Just asking (and especially Bob)
>
> 73, Ted
> K7TRK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx
> On Behalf Of Bob Bruninga
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:23 AM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: satellite average elevation
>
> > we used a horizontally polarized yagi fixed at 30 degrees above the
> > horizon. That worked very well..
>
> Thanks for the confirmation. Yes, elevation rotation is simply not
> needed at all for LEO spacecraft and modest beams. A mild, fixed tilt
> modest beam is just perfect.
>
> But, the "30 degree" angle myth is very pervasive throughout amsat,
> whereas, the optimum angle is more like 15 degrees.
>
> A 30 degree up-tilt gives up too much gain (-3 dB!) on the horizon
> where signals are weakest and where satellites spend most of their
> time, and puts the gain in an area of the sky where the satellite is
> already 6 dB stronger and is rarely there (giving you max beam gain
where you need it least).
>
> If you look at the sketches on the web page, the optimum angle is more
> like
> 15 degrees up-tilt. It preserves max gain on the horizon within 1 dB
> (where it is needed most) and focuses the breadth of its gain on the
> area of the sky where the satellites spend something like 95% of their
> time. For the missing 5%, the satellite is right on top of you and
> almost 10 dB stronger without any beam at all. Oh, and the 15 degree
> up-tilt beam is also perfect for Terrestrial operations as well.
>
> See the sketch on: http://aprs.org/rotator1.html
>
> In some future life, if we ever get back to HEO's and huge OSCAR
> arrays, then elevation rotors have a place. These high-gain beams
> have such narrow gain patterns, that higher precision tracking is a
> must. (Though it is complete overkill for LEO's).
>
> Using these OVERKILL arrays for LEO's adds significant complexity to
> LEO operation requiring higher precision tracking, elevation rotors,
> better timing, fresher element sets and automated operation.
>
> Using a TV rotator and 15 degree fixed tilt beam is much more
forgiving...
>
> Bob, Wb4APR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:15:07 -0700
From: "Rick Tejera" <saguaroastro@xxx.xxx>
To: "'Nico Janssen'" <hamsat@xxxxxx.xx>, "'Mike Rupprecht'"
<mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
Message-ID: <004f01cefc03$f00601b0$d0120510$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'd thought that AO-73 had been confirmed as object 66B. has this been
refined? I guess I need to update my settings in SATpc
Rick Tejera
Saguaro Astronomy Club
www.saguaroastro.org
Thunderbird Amateur radio Club (K7TEJ)
www.w7tbc.org
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Nico Janssen
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:00 AM
To: Mike Rupprecht; amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the confirmation of the 'tbc's.
This picture shows the measured doppler curve of an overhead evening pass of
OSCAR 73, plotted against the calculated curves for objects
39444 and 39445. These objects were about 11 s apart (i.e. about 82 km).
https://thumb5.wuala.com/previewImage/SharedInfo/Space/AO73_20131216.jpg/?ke
y=IZKufoz9U1Uo
Note the temperature related frequency drift on the beacon transmitter,
which causes frequency deviations when using automatic doppler correction.
To be able to create useful doppler curves it would help if all Cubesats
would transmit a *continuous* carrier signal on a
*constant* frequency... ;-)
Still a lot of IDs are unknown. Of all the objects from the Minotaur launch,
only three are officially identified:
39380 2013-064A STPSat 3
39388 2013-064J SENSE SV1
39392 2013-064N SENSE SV2
It is suggested that Cape 2 is object 39382 (2013-064C) and that KySat 2 is
object 39383 (2013-064D). These are to be confirmed.
73,
Nico PA0DLO
On 2013-12-17 22:13, Mike Rupprecht wrote:
> Thanks Nico, PA0DLO for pointing me in the rigth direction. I agree
> with you the TLE for the cubesats:
>
> 39436 2013-066W Eagle 2 ($50Sat) ok
> 39438 2013-066Y Velox PII ok
> 39439 2013-066Z First-MOVE ok
> 39440 2013-066AA CubeBug 2 ok
> 39444 2013-066AE AMSAT-OSCAR ok :-)
> 39445 2013-066AF HiNCube ?
> 39446 2013-066AG UWE 3 ok
>
> Just made a deep analysis with the FunCube TLE (Object AE vs. AF). The
> pass was not very high but every seconds I switched between the TLE AE and
AF.
> You can see a slightly differnce (only a few Hz) at TCA what leads me
> to say
> - your're right. FUNCube-1 seems indeed to be Object AE.
>
> http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?p=39682
>
>
> 73 Mike
> DK3WN
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx Im
> Auftrag von Nico Janssen
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. Dezember 2013 14:32
> An: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Betreff: [amsat-bb] Re: Object IDs
>
> All,
>
> Further doppler measurements show that TshepisoSat (aka ZACube 1) is
> object
> 39417 (2013-066B) and AMSAT-OSCAR 73 (aka FUNCube 1) is object
> 39444 (2013-066AE). Therefore HiNCube must be object 39445 (2013-066AF).
>
> It is not easy to get a good doppler curve with many Cubesats because
> of the limited transmissions and because of the frequency drift of
> their beacon transmitters.
>
> These object IDs from the Dnepr launch seem to be correct, although
> some still need to be confirmed (tbc):
>
> 39416 2013-066A Aprizesat 7
> 39417 2013-066B TshepisoSat
> 39418 2013-066C Skysat 1
> 39419 2013-066D Dubaisat 2
> 39421 2013-066F Unisat 5
> 39422 2013-066G STSat 3
> 39423 2013-066H WNISat 1
> 39425 2013-066K Aprizesat 8
> 39427 2013-066M Triton 1
> 39428 2013-066N Delfi-n3Xt
> 39429 2013-066P Dove 3
> 39430 2013-066Q GomX 1
> 39431 2013-066R BRITE-PL
> 39432 2013-066S HumSat D (tbc)
> 39436 2013-066W Eagle 2 ($50Sat) (tbc)
> 39438 2013-066Y Velox PII (tbc)
> 39439 2013-066Z First-MOVE (tbc)
> 39440 2013-066AA CubeBug 2 (tbc)
> 39444 2013-066AE AMSAT-OSCAR 73
> 39445 2013-066AF HiNCube
> 39446 2013-066AG UWE 3 (tbc)
>
> 73,
> Nico PA0DLO
>
>
> On 2013-12-01 16:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> An update on the satellite IDs.
>>
>> Still no IDs are available for the satellites launched from the ISS
>> (except TechEdSat 3P) and the Minotaur.
>>
>> Several IDs have been published for the objects from the Dnepr launch
>> but many need to be confirmed. Still not all TLEs are released.
>>
>> AMSAT-OSCAR 73, ZACube 1 and HiNCube were launched from the same ISIPOD.
>> As they initially were close together, the JSpOC decided to release
>> only one TLE set for this cluster under object number 39417
>> (2013-066B). Now the distances between these satellites are slowly
>> increasing. So the question is which satellite is object 39417.
>> Detailed doppler measurements show that ZACube 1 is now about 25 s
>> early compared to the TLE for object 39417, while OSCAR 73 is about
>> 11 s early. This seems to indicate that object 39417 is actually HiNCube.
>> Hopefully TLEs for OSCAR 73 and ZACube 1 will be published soon.
>>
>> 73,
>> Nico PA0DLO
>>
>>
>> On 2013-11-23 11:32, Nico Janssen wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> An overview of the presently known IDs for the satellites that have
>>> been launched recently.
>>>
>>> ISS JSSOD Cubesat launches
>>> 2013-11-19 12:18 UTC
>>> 39412 1998-067DA Pico Dragon ?
>>> 39413 1998-067DB ArduSat 1 ?
>>> 39414 1998-067DC ArduSat X ?
>>> To be confirmed when the objects have more separation.
>>> 2013-11-20 07:58 UTC
>>> 39415 1998-067DD TechEdSat 3P
>>>
>>> Minotaur 1, Wallops Flight Facility
>>> 2013-11-20 01:15 UTC
>>> ORS3 & ELaNa 4: 29 satellites
>>> So far only 4 TLEs published. No IDs yet but probably:
>>> 39380 2013-064A STPSat 3
>>>
>>> Dnepr, Yasny
>>> 2013-11-21 07:10:11 UTC
>>> 32 satellites
>>> 19 TLEs published
>>> 39417 2013-066B FUNcube 1
>>> 39427 2013-066M Triton 1
>>> 39428 2013-066N Delfi-n3Xt
>>>
>>> Note that all designations may change later on.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Nico PA0DLO
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 8, Issue 462
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