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CX2SA > SATDIG 18.09.13 21:03l 1375 Lines 45172 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Live Web Coverage Of Antares/Cygnus Launch (B J)
2. Cygnus On Its Way To ISS (B J)
3. My Take (MICHAEL)
4. Re: So Long (Tom J. Gentry)
5. Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons (Rob)
6. Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons (Joe)
7. Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons (Bryce Salmi)
8. Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons (M5AKA)
9. Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons (Joe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:20:26 +0000
From: B J <va6bmj@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Live Web Coverage Of Antares/Cygnus Launch
Message-ID:
<CAP7QzkNmNfNcBX04cDz1czR9cxPw2aeEV=f8EVFBwaOpcRcAkA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
http://spaceflightnow.com/antares/cots1/status.html
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
73s
Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:25:45 +0000
From: B J <va6bmj@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Cygnus On Its Way To ISS
Message-ID:
<CAP7QzkNzg9_M=pm6VLW0jx-nTZYJXi_nMnCBFu0o_qqMnuycyQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Deployment of the photovoltaic arrays has been confirmed following a
smooth launch.
73s
Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:12:36 -0400
From: MICHAEL <mikef1234@xxxx.xxx>
To: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] My Take
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1743AC145EBE8D182FACC81CB200@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I guess I'm in the 25 percent who doesn't complain at Hamfests. My first
AMSAT exposure was at Dayton in 2010 I had played with the idea of receiving
satellites and back in the 90's actually received DOVES beacon. Back then I
was a bit confused and never thought much about it. After Dayton 2010 I have
slowly been assembling a station. I joined AMSAT but dropped out when they
had some problems getting newsletters out. I will be rejoining shortly and
hopefully have my station ready for satellite use before Winter strikes
here. I honestly believe some people think AMSAT has tons of money or maybe
inside contacts just to get the birds "they" want into space. When in
reality it takes a lot of work from AMSAT to be considered for a ride by
NASA plus donation drives to pay for these birds to be made. Once the birds
are in orbit they can be used by anyone not just AMSAT members. Can you
imagine if AMSAT had the power or would lock these birds down for "members
only" satellites? The membership would go through the roof.
Just my opinion, that and $ 2.00 might buy you a good cup of coffee these
days!
73's
Mike/N8GBU
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:42:32 -0500
From: "Tom J. Gentry" <t.gentry@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: So Long
Message-ID: <769DA5E9-2900-4D29-86FB-C55EADD22BD5@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
While the frustration evidenced in this digest is understandable, perhaps
unknown to us AMSAT are already trying to innovate an alternative to Highly
Elliptical Orbit. Certainly a longer lived orbit would be desirable and a
bird lighter that a P3 sat would perhaps find a cheap ride easier but let us
rethink our path to get to where we want to be. As sure as E=mc^2,
Upmass=$$$$$$$. Even though we started out as hitch hikers to the galaxy,
AMSAT has acquired a significant data base of communications technology that
we will be able to use to get more rides as soon as ITAR gets lifted off our
neck and we can find more programs that can use the AMSAT communications
expertise.
How about a series of cube sats that are placed high enough (or could be
raised to that orbit) to last for awhile? How about we use other people's
bird's after they are through with their experiments and move them up to
longer lasting orbits and reconfigure the comm system (the one we built for
them) to an amateur radio configuration. If each one of these MEO cube sats
lasts long enough to overlap, pretty soon you have a constellation.
I probably will not live to see it complete but that is no reason not to
start. The key is to get long lasting orbits with small sats and lots of
them.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 18, 2013, at 8:33 AM, amsat-bb-request@xxxxx.xxx wrote:
> Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to
> amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> amsat-bb-request@xxxxx.xxx
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> amsat-bb-owner@xxxxx.xxx
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: so long (n0jy)
> 2. Re: so long (Iain Young, G7III)
> 3. Re: so long (Yanko Yankov)
> 4. Re: so long (Personal)
> 5. Re: so long (Patrick Green)
> 6. Re: so long (Bob- W7LRD)
> 7. Re: so long (Adrian Engele)
> 8. Re: so long (i8cvs)
> 9. Re: so long (Stefan Wagener)
> 10. Re: so long (Gus)
> 11. Re: so long (John Spasojevich)
> 12. Re: so long (Greg D)
> 13. Re: Space Weather Affect on Satellites (MLengruesser@xxx.xxxx
> 14. Re: so long, try EME (MM)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:19:36 -0500
> From: n0jy <n0jy@xxxx.xxx>
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <5238AB48.8050507@xxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dang. Now what are we going to do?
>
> On 9/17/2013 1:58 PM, John Becker wrote:
>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
>> only satellite
>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other
>> joining AMSAT
>> in the first place.
>>
>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 20:45:52 +0100
> From: "Iain Young, G7III" <g7iii@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: n0jy <n0jy@xxxx.xxx>
> Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <5238B170.6050409@xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 17/09/13 20:19, n0jy wrote:
>
>> Dang. Now what are we going to do?
>
> Eat the fish left behind ? :)
>
>
> 73s
>
> Iain
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:46:45 -0500
> From: Yanko Yankov <samy_b1@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: n0jy <n0jy@xxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <6902cb30-2291-4cfa-a0b3-1b9f6b7f7971@xxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I'll tell you what I will do. I'll make me a cup of coffee.
>
> Yanko,NX9G
>
> n0jy <n0jy@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> Dang. Now what are we going to do?
>>
>> On 9/17/2013 1:58 PM, John Becker wrote:
>>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
>>> only satellite
>>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other
>>> joining AMSAT
>>> in the first place.
>>>
>>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>>
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
>> author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
>> author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:12:00 -0500
> From: Personal <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <45B86821-7D94-4AFB-A36E-DCF926BABA56@xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> How will we call you when the ice forms over hell or how do we send a
signal 6 feet underground?
>
> If you want an AO 40 bird so bad, then make a couple million dollars or
win the lottery and send it to AMSAT or find a way to help the Germans
launch P3D...it's been sitting around.
>
> Nah...bitching and quitting...that's the way to get it done..thanks for
the example.
>
> John AG9D
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 17, 2013, at 1:58 PM, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only
satellite
>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other
joining AMSAT
>> in the first place.
>>
>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:14:01 -0400
> From: Patrick Green <pagreen@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID:
> <CAAhWhXTv22esZdOZf160MAtj=o4TGwELOt2BpKMHH5zoYM36hw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Isn't this the reason why hams end up on HF? Any mode that requires
> infrastructure to operate is going to be this way. I'm sure you've
> experienced this on repeaters if you used them. Perhaps we need a
> kickstarter for the launch of P3E.
>
> 73
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:58 PM, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only
>> satellite
>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining
>> AMSAT
>> in the first place.
>>
>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>
>> John
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Patrick Green
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 20:25:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: Personal <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID:
>
<589413027.1807382.1379449548845.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxx
xxx.xxx>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> the difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer!
> 73 Bob W7LRD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Personal" <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "John Becker" <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:12:00 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
>
> How will we call you when the ice forms over hell or how do we send a
signal 6 feet underground?
>
> If you want an AO 40 bird so bad, then make a couple million dollars or
win the lottery and send it to AMSAT or find a way to help the Germans
launch P3D...it's been sitting around.
>
> Nah...bitching and quitting...that's the way to get it done..thanks for
the example.
>
> John AG9D
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 17, 2013, at 1:58 PM, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only
satellite
>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other
joining AMSAT
>> in the first place.
>>
>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 13:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Adrian Engele <aa5uk@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: Patrick Green <pagreen@xxxxx.xxx>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID:
> <1379451181.79114.YahooMailNeo@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Like this Kickstarter project which was underfunded :
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597141632/cat-a-thruster-for-interplanetar
y-cubesats
>
> We hope.
>
> 73, Adrian AA5UK
>
>
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Patrick Green <pagreen@xxxxx.xxx>
>> To: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:14 PM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
>>
>>
>> Isn't this the reason why hams end up on HF?? Any mode that requires
>> infrastructure to operate is going to be this way.? I'm sure you've
>> experienced this on repeaters if you used them.? Perhaps we need a
>> kickstarter for the launch of P3E.
>>
>> 73
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:58 PM, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only
>>> satellite
>>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining
>>> AMSAT
>>> in the first place.
>>>
>>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>>
>>> John
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Patrick Green
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 01:02:52 +0200
> From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
> To: "John Becker" <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "Amsat - BBs"
> <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, "Martha" <martha@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <000a01ceb3fa$0cb44620$0401a8c0@xxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Becker" <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] so long
>
>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
>> only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as
>> well as other joining AMSAT in the first place.
>>
>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40
>> happens.
>>
>> John
>>
> Hi John,W0JAB
>
> I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided
> to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed
> his policy with only FM satellites.
>
> I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called
> "the satellites for all" and I invested a lot of money for equipments
> and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near
> future.
>
> In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect
> grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and
> particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and
> it was very nice until lasted.
>
> As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL
> to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all
> my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of
> membership.
>
> By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand
> the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write
> many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any
> money reward.
>
> If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order
> of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of
> AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many
> members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no
> HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two
> ways communications between continents was not a
> satisfactory task.
>
> Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they
> promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using
> the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming
> rusty over the roof for very small or for nothing........Sorry !
>
> 73" de i8CVS Domenico
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:27:37 -0500
> From: Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
> Cc: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, John Becker
> <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID:
> <CAKu8kHDSxQNmagn=V4FFNvXJu6060Bd1-u5VX1EmubRPcq6BDw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Domenico,
>
> I am not sure if I understand your post:
>
> "As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO
> satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my
> previous not covered years of membership."
>
> As a matter of fact we don't need a new HEO, we have one or more accurate
> AMSAT-DL has one. It is called Phase 3E! What we need is $10million+ to fly
> it.
>
> "during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles
> for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward."
>
> Well, many folks volunteer and work hard and no, we actually pay to
> volunteer and help and no, we don't expect to get paid!
>
> So, how about you help AMSAT-NA, AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-IT in their efforts to
> find a potential source of money to make that satellite fly.
>
> To quote Clayton (W5PFG) from an earlier post:
>
> "Some of the loudest whining voices are from the non-voting community.
> I've observed this behavior in civic organizations, technical societies,
> fraternities, etc. Usually these are the same people who gripe about how an
> organization spends its money though the complainer never donates a dime."
>
> Rest my case,
>
> Stefan VE4NSA
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:02 PM, i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx> wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Becker" <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>> To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] so long
>>
>>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
>>> only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as
>>> well as other joining AMSAT in the first place.
>>>
>>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>> Hi John,W0JAB
>>
>> I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided
>> to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed
>> his policy with only FM satellites.
>>
>> I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called
>> "the satellites for all" and I invested a lot of money for equipments
>> and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near
>> future.
>>
>> In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect
>> grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and
>> particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and
>> it was very nice until lasted.
>>
>> As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL
>> to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all
>> my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of
>> membership.
>>
>> By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand
>> the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write
>> many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any
>> money reward.
>>
>> If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order
>> of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of
>> AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many
>> members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no
>> HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two
>> ways communications between continents was not a
>> satisfactory task.
>>
>> Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they
>> promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using
>> the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming
>> rusty over the roof for very small or for nothing........Sorry !
>>
>> 73" de i8CVS Domenico
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:17:47 -0400
> From: Gus <amcleod@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <5238AADB.6090201@xxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> John,
>
> 1) I too pine for the HEO birds.
>
> 2) I have little interest in single-channel FM-only satellites
>
> But!
>
> 1) LEO birds are better than no birds at all. The early OSCARS were all
> LEO and without the learning curve they provided, we would probably
> never have launched AO-10 and AO-13. The challenges nowadays may be
> different (financial rather than technological) but in time we will
> hopefully overcome them.
>
> 2) From what I gather simply by reading this list, the majority of
> transponders flying are linear (NOT single-channel FM) and the same is
> true for the majority of transponders in the pipe.
>
> I respect your decision to drop out of the list and wish you well.
>
> Regards...
>
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> Barbados, the easternmost isle.
>
>
>
> On 09/17/2013 02:58 PM, John Becker wrote:
>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
>> only satellite
>> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other
>> joining AMSAT
>> in the first place.
>>
>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 21:23:59 -0500
> From: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, John Becker
> <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID:
> <CA+qbou4F6hDXcCpJ61zO4m2XwXdKQoZ3WS0JnAVFzSbPrVvycA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Stefan, I second the comments .
>
> I brace myself every time I go to a hamfest to represent AMSAT. I would
> say I spend 75% of my time getting told that we are a bunch of morons and
> how the person complaining used to be a member but will never join again
> because we don't have a HEO bird. I spend time, politely too, with them
> explaining the world has changed in terms of launch cost and ask them if
> they have any ideas on how we can raise the money, that usually sends them
> on their way.
>
> I came to a great revelation this year looking back on my time as a club
> president, secretary and one of the 10% that actually does something other
> than complain and came to the conclusion that 75% of the rank and file hams
> want to open a box, sit in a chair, plug it in and yak in a microphone and
> complain. The other 25% are involved in experimentation, construction,
> education and pushing the service forward.
>
> The last time I checked, moaning and complaining to another ham who does
> nothing but complain doesn't get anything done. I should think that if
> there was anyone reading this mail service that had $10M to spare, they
> would have bought the launch by now. But go ahead and keep crying to the
> same group, maybe there's a recent lottery winner here.
>
> John AG9D
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi Domenico,
>>
>> I am not sure if I understand your post:
>>
>> "As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO
>> satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my
>> previous not covered years of membership."
>>
>> As a matter of fact we don't need a new HEO, we have one or more accurate
>> AMSAT-DL has one. It is called Phase 3E! What we need is $10million+ to fly
>> it.
>>
>> "during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles
>> for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward."
>>
>> Well, many folks volunteer and work hard and no, we actually pay to
>> volunteer and help and no, we don't expect to get paid!
>>
>> So, how about you help AMSAT-NA, AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-IT in their efforts to
>> find a potential source of money to make that satellite fly.
>>
>> To quote Clayton (W5PFG) from an earlier post:
>>
>> "Some of the loudest whining voices are from the non-voting community.
>> I've observed this behavior in civic organizations, technical societies,
>> fraternities, etc. Usually these are the same people who gripe about how an
>> organization spends its money though the complainer never donates a dime."
>>
>> Rest my case,
>>
>> Stefan VE4NSA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:02 PM, i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx> wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Becker" <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>>> To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM
>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] so long
>>>
>>>> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
>>>> only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as
>>>> well as other joining AMSAT in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40
>>>> happens.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>> Hi John,W0JAB
>>>
>>> I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided
>>> to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed
>>> his policy with only FM satellites.
>>>
>>> I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called
>>> "the satellites for all" and I invested a lot of money for equipments
>>> and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near
>>> future.
>>>
>>> In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect
>>> grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and
>>> particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and
>>> it was very nice until lasted.
>>>
>>> As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL
>>> to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all
>>> my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of
>>> membership.
>>>
>>> By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand
>>> the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write
>>> many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any
>>> money reward.
>>>
>>> If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order
>>> of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of
>>> AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many
>>> members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no
>>> HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two
>>> ways communications between continents was not a
>>> satisfactory task.
>>>
>>> Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they
>>> promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using
>>> the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming
>>> rusty over the roof for very small or for nothing........Sorry !
>>>
>>> 73" de i8CVS Domenico
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 21:00:34 -0700
> From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
> Cc: Amsat BB <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long
> Message-ID: <52392562.5050007@xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> I made my first satellite contact in 1993, a year after I was first
> licensed. That first contact was due to a lot of elmering by Walt,
> KA6VNU, and the skill of Mel, KW7E, on the other end of the contact.
> Since then I have made countless contacts on my own, elmered others
> through their first contacts, and learned something from each and every
> one. New puzzles were answered by the many generous and knowledgeable
> participants in this bulletin board, including you. I've had an
> incredible experience, and it's not over yet.
>
> I hardly call that "nothing".
>
> Greg KO6TH
>
>
> i8cvs wrote:
>> Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they
>> promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using
>> the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming
>> rusty over the roof for very small or for nothing........Sorry !
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:43:02 -0400 (EDT)
> From: MLengruesser@xxx.xxx
> To: les@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Space Weather Affect on Satellites
> Message-ID: <25af8.1712edd.3f6af9d6@xxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
>
> Hi Les,.
>
>
> I know this and I think we do a good job of 365/7/24 with our antenna in
> Bochum.
> We receive and deliver realtime raw data to NASA / NOAA for the Stereo A /
> B project
> Look on the following webpages
> http://amsat-dl.org/index.php/news-mainmenu-97/194-stereo-turbo-amsateng
> http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/beacon/beacon_coverage.shtml
> http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/
> http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/index.shtml
>
> vy 73,
>
> Michael R. Lengruesser, DD5ER
>
>
>
>
>
> AMSAT-DL e.V.
> -- International Satellites for Communication,
> Science and Education --
> mlengruesser@xxxxxxxx.xxx
> http://www.amsat-dl.org
>
>
>
> In einer eMail vom 18.09.2013 01:12:03 Westeurop?ische Sommerzeit schreibt
> les@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx
>
> MIT Study of interest to the satellite community:
> http://web.mit.edu/press/2013/space-weather-effects-on-satellites.html
>
>
> --
> --
> 73,
>
> Les Rayburn, N1LF
> 121 Mayfair Park
> Maylene, AL 35114
> EM63nf
>
> 6M VUCC #1712
> AMSAT #38965
> Grid Bandits #222
> Southeastern VHF Society
> Central States VHF Society Life Member
> Six Club #2484
>
> Active on 6 Meters thru 1296, 10GHz & Light
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 06:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: MM <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
> <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long, try EME
> Message-ID:
> <1379511235.53461.YahooMailNeo@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
>
> EME is a
> good replacement (JT65)
> ?
> There are no
> borders.
> There is no
> politics (no one owns the Moon).
> There are no
> Satellite managers to control which mode is enabled or disabled.
> No person
> can hog the whole repeater.
> The Moon is
> usable 2+ weeks contiguous per month.
> In most countries
> you can run your countries legal limit.
> It?s much
> further away and thus a greater challenge.
> You do not
> need to join a club.
> ?
> And the list
> goes on.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:58 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] so long
>
>
> I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM
> only satellite
> attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other
> joining AMSAT
> in the first place.
>
> Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 8, Issue 314
> ****************************************
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 17:01:36 +0000
From: Rob <pabutusa@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons
Message-ID:
<CAE1O4xq+cBdrBVzKJw-N1T6wivc2rOwArOzSygUYU0EsTpeATw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I'm not a rocket scientist but I have an active imagination .....
Thinking of a recent XKCD .... to achieve orbit .... the hard part isn't
the altitude it's the velocity ....
Would there be any advantage (cost effective) carrying a launch vehicle say
to 37KM ... think Red Bull Stratos .... and firing the engines there???
So you're already 37KM up .... there's a lot less atmospheric drag ....
This would be like a drop from a plane ... but even higher ....
Thoughts???
de KA2PBT
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:30:55 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons
Message-ID: <5239E34F.6050600@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It's called a Rockoon, and has been done before, google it.
Thing is now days it's launch would have to be permitted by the
government just as much as any other major rocket flight. or get out of
the USA like into the gulf of mexico to do the launch.
Joe WB9SBD
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 9/18/2013 12:01 PM, Rob wrote:
> I'm not a rocket scientist but I have an active imagination .....
>
> Thinking of a recent XKCD .... to achieve orbit .... the hard part isn't
> the altitude it's the velocity ....
>
> Would there be any advantage (cost effective) carrying a launch vehicle say
> to 37KM ... think Red Bull Stratos .... and firing the engines there???
>
> So you're already 37KM up .... there's a lot less atmospheric drag ....
>
> This would be like a drop from a plane ... but even higher ....
>
> Thoughts???
>
> de KA2PBT
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 10:59:58 -0700
From: Bryce Salmi <bstguitarist@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons
Message-ID:
<CAN5j0sqsW+NHgLVqHTUPqYViogCp1-+Oj56C-oj4GzbvPVDFAA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It's to my understanding that the Rockoons didn't go to orbit, but did
reach space with ballistic trajectories. The hard part with orbit is the
pure speed needed. RIT had a
program<http://www.rit.edu/kgcoe/electrical/meteor/meteor/Home.html>for
an orbital rockoon type project called METEOR a while back but it has
since been ended. I believe the advantages of launching from 30+ km
altitude are quickly outweighed by the added complexity of the system as a
whole. In the end the rocket fuel for most orbital rockets needed to get to
37km altittude is a small fraction of the total fuel on board anyways.
my $0.02
Bryce
KB1LQC
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Joe <nss@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> It's called a Rockoon, and has been done before, google it.
>
> Thing is now days it's launch would have to be permitted by the government
> just as much as any other major rocket flight. or get out of the USA like
> into the gulf of mexico to do the launch.
>
> Joe WB9SBD
> Sig
> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
> Idle Tyme
> Idle-Tyme.com
> http://www.idle-tyme.com
> On 9/18/2013 12:01 PM, Rob wrote:
>
>> I'm not a rocket scientist but I have an active imagination .....
>>
>> Thinking of a recent XKCD .... to achieve orbit .... the hard part isn't
>> the altitude it's the velocity ....
>>
>> Would there be any advantage (cost effective) carrying a launch vehicle
>> say
>> to 37KM ... think Red Bull Stratos .... and firing the engines there???
>>
>> So you're already 37KM up .... there's a lot less atmospheric drag ....
>>
>> This would be like a drop from a plane ... but even higher ....
>>
>> Thoughts???
>>
>> de KA2PBT
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:10:40 +0100 (BST)
From: M5AKA <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: Rob <pabutusa@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons
Message-ID:
<1379527840.82784.YahooMailNeo@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Would there be any advantage (cost effective) carrying a launch vehicle say
> to 37KM ... think Red Bull Stratos .... and firing the engines there???
Sounds a bit like the UK LOHAN project, see
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/07/vulture_2/
The team have been doing tests this week about 150 km West of Madrid, BTW
they are looking for people in the area who can receive the 434 MHz
telemetry signals, see
http://www.southgatearc.org/news/september2013/the_register_434_mhz_balloon_la
unch.htm
Their next test flight is on Thursday, Sept. 19 at 1pm BST (1200 GMT).?
Surrey Satellite Technology and Virgin Galactic have a similar idea of using
an air-launched rocket, see
http://amsat-uk.org/2012/07/11/sst-us-and-virgin-galactic-small-satellite-laun
ches/
73 Trevor M5AKA
________________________________
From: Rob <pabutusa@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Wednesday, 18 September 2013, 18:01
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons
I'm not a rocket scientist but I have an active imagination .....
Thinking of a recent XKCD .... to achieve orbit .... the hard part isn't
the altitude it's the velocity ....
Would there be any advantage (cost effective) carrying a launch vehicle say
to 37KM ... think Red Bull Stratos .... and firing the engines there???
So you're already 37KM up .... there's a lot less atmospheric drag ....
This would be like a drop from a plane ... but even higher ....
Thoughts???
de KA2PBT
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 13:44:36 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Thought experiment ... Rockets and balloons
Message-ID: <5239F494.10006@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Actually it is a larger fraction than you would think. Because of
Atmospheric Drag.
Joe WB9SBD
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 9/18/2013 12:59 PM, Bryce Salmi wrote:
> It's to my understanding that the Rockoons didn't go to orbit, but did
> reach space with ballistic trajectories. The hard part with orbit is the
> pure speed needed. RIT had a
> program<http://www.rit.edu/kgcoe/electrical/meteor/meteor/Home.html>for
> an orbital rockoon type project called METEOR a while back but it has
> since been ended. I believe the advantages of launching from 30+ km
> altitude are quickly outweighed by the added complexity of the system as a
> whole. In the end the rocket fuel for most orbital rockets needed to get to
> 37km altittude is a small fraction of the total fuel on board anyways.
>
> my $0.02
>
> Bryce
> KB1LQC
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Joe <nss@xxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> It's called a Rockoon, and has been done before, google it.
>>
>> Thing is now days it's launch would have to be permitted by the government
>> just as much as any other major rocket flight. or get out of the USA like
>> into the gulf of mexico to do the launch.
>>
>> Joe WB9SBD
>> Sig
>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
>> Idle Tyme
>> Idle-Tyme.com
>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
>> On 9/18/2013 12:01 PM, Rob wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not a rocket scientist but I have an active imagination .....
>>>
>>> Thinking of a recent XKCD .... to achieve orbit .... the hard part isn't
>>> the altitude it's the velocity ....
>>>
>>> Would there be any advantage (cost effective) carrying a launch vehicle
>>> say
>>> to 37KM ... think Red Bull Stratos .... and firing the engines there???
>>>
>>> So you're already 37KM up .... there's a lot less atmospheric drag ....
>>>
>>> This would be like a drop from a plane ... but even higher ....
>>>
>>> Thoughts???
>>>
>>> de KA2PBT
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 8, Issue 315
****************************************
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