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CX2SA > SATDIG 23.02.13 21:02l 613 Lines 22092 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite? (James French)
2. Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite? (Joshua Abraham)
3. Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite? (Roger)
4. current operational amateur satellite lits (jim@xxxxxx.xxx
5. Re: STRaND-1 Launch Information (Lizeth Norman)
6. Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite? (Trevor .)
7. Re: STRaND-1 Launch Information (Trevor .)
8. Re: current operational amateur satellite lits
(Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE)
9. Re: current operational amateur satellite list (Trevor .)
10. Re: current operational amateur satellite list (Anthony Monteiro)
11. Re : Re: current operational amateur satellite lits
(Christian F1AFZ)
12. Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite? (R Oler)
13. Yaesu FT-726R parts available (Andrew Glasbrenner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:06:07 -0500
From: James French <w8iss1@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite?
Message-ID: <1361563567.2251.45.camel@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lee and those who have responded so far,
Those are the questions that would need to be answered before even
considering this 'novel' idea.
I use the WRT54GL as a reference since that is what I am familiar with.
The WRT54GL would need to be almost redesigned because of space
radiation conditions plus it may just not have enough output power to
even be considered especially with trying to fit it into a microsat or
smaller frame and then finding a suitable launch. Could the satellite
utilize a modified 'backfire' antenna (referencing AO-40 2.4GHz
antennas) that utilizes dipoles offset from the surface on every side
and then use the surface of the satellite itself for gain?
As for HSMM-Mesh, this maybe the software to consider for something like
this as its robust enough for what I have played with three WRT54G
around my area (EN82jg), both mobile and stationary. My laptop (a
Fujitsu Lifebook T4020) is sensitive enough to pick up one 54g half a
mile away using just the supplied antennas and if I add a BBQ style dish
(from my AO-40 reception days) to replace the supplied antenna, I can
almost quadruple that range. Granted the laptop and 54g are both at
ground level and have a lot of obstructions. Still have to take it out
to one of the local parks to see what I can actually get for range with
no buildings. With the laptop being so sensitive, I can connect to the
local McD's free wi-fi almost half a mile away better than I can my
d-link router in the basement.
As for frequency usage, going by the 'slide-band' chart (available at
http://www.hsmm-mesh.org), there are 6 available 'channels' that fall in
the satellite sub-band the way I am interpreting FCC rules. If the
'slide-band ' crystal modification is done, that gives 4 'channels' for
use. Something to consider there about 'channel' hopping in the
software.
Greg, KO6TH, brings up about the timing protocols. Maybe the HSMM group
or TAPR would consider looking at the protocols and maybe modify them
much like AX.25 was done for packet back in the 1980's.
Mark and Drew bring up about noise levels being unacceptable on a few of
the lower bands. This might be mitigated with the use of the
'slide-band' modification by changing out the 20MHz crystal for a more
appropriate frequency. As I noted earlier, more about the 'slide-band'
mod for the 54GL is at the hsmm-mesh pages.
So if some of these obstacles can be 'overcome', would this be a
'viable' consideration? Could something like this be utilized to gain
the faster input speeds that are wanted for uploading/ downloading
images, files, and maybe store and forward systems that could tie into
the regional packet networks utilizing JNOS 2.0, WinLink, and FBB.
I just miss having something that is more than just APRS-related on the
satellites. This in no way is a knock on the present 1k2 sats, its just
that my KPC-9612 has been VERY under-utilized since the mid-1990's and I
miss having that fun :(
I am not a rocket scientist, electrical engineer, or a sat designer.
These are just personal thoughts to see if this 'idea' is even feasible.
My thoughts could be seriously flawed and skewed and totally 'out of
this world' to say. For all I know, this might be one of those bright
ideas that would work better with a placement on the lunar surface as
long as it doesn't interfere with EME work and can survive the harsh
environment there. That would be a TOTALLY separate discussion in itself
alone.
James W8ISS
=====
On Tue, 2013-02-19 at 10:12 -0500, James French wrote:
> What are the possibilities of building a satellite that uses a Linksys
> WRT54GL router with a modified DD-wrt or HSMM-Mesh software as a store
> and forward BBS, to route a received request from one station to another
> station, or even to connect to a on board networked camera to receive
> images?
>
> What kind of uplink power would be needed from the home station?
>
> How fast could the speed(s) get theoretically?
>
> How big would the antenna have to be on the craft and for the ground
> station to even be able to do this adequately?
>
> Would the doppler be too much to even consider this?
>
> Would the space environment be too harsh for something like this?
>
> This is just something I was thinking about this morning and thought I
> would toss it out.
>
> James W8ISS
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:02:48 -0500
From: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo@xxxxx.xxx>
To: James French <w8iss1@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite?
Message-ID:
<CANoqCgbwqJtaF0o=hDQm_fYe6KhUONxTxLV7ru+Qtqh06SW=ng@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hello James, I just wanted to throw my two cents in on the protocols. I'm
not sure about the need for AX.25 implementation. The 802.11(Wi-Fi)
standard should server the purpose needed. AX.25 is a considerably limited
protocol. Low speeds, limited error correction, and frankly, it defeats the
purpose of putting a wifi router in orbit to begin with. One key feature of
802.11 is its ability to operate in less than ideal conditions. The
protocol natively supports error correction, multiple simultaneous users,
and can avoid data collision with "carrier-sense" technology.
Also, long distance shouldn't be too large a concern. I seem to remember
reading about a successful experiment involving high altitude balloons.
I may too not be entirely accurate on the above, I'm still in college for a
networking degree. I'm just going on what I've learned so far.
Joshua KJ4VYR
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 3:06 PM, James French <w8iss1@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Lee and those who have responded so far,
>
> Those are the questions that would need to be answered before even
> considering this 'novel' idea.
>
> I use the WRT54GL as a reference since that is what I am familiar with.
> The WRT54GL would need to be almost redesigned because of space
> radiation conditions plus it may just not have enough output power to
> even be considered especially with trying to fit it into a microsat or
> smaller frame and then finding a suitable launch. Could the satellite
> utilize a modified 'backfire' antenna (referencing AO-40 2.4GHz
> antennas) that utilizes dipoles offset from the surface on every side
> and then use the surface of the satellite itself for gain?
>
> As for HSMM-Mesh, this maybe the software to consider for something like
> this as its robust enough for what I have played with three WRT54G
> around my area (EN82jg), both mobile and stationary. My laptop (a
> Fujitsu Lifebook T4020) is sensitive enough to pick up one 54g half a
> mile away using just the supplied antennas and if I add a BBQ style dish
> (from my AO-40 reception days) to replace the supplied antenna, I can
> almost quadruple that range. Granted the laptop and 54g are both at
> ground level and have a lot of obstructions. Still have to take it out
> to one of the local parks to see what I can actually get for range with
> no buildings. With the laptop being so sensitive, I can connect to the
> local McD's free wi-fi almost half a mile away better than I can my
> d-link router in the basement.
>
> As for frequency usage, going by the 'slide-band' chart (available at
> http://www.hsmm-mesh.org), there are 6 available 'channels' that fall in
> the satellite sub-band the way I am interpreting FCC rules. If the
> 'slide-band ' crystal modification is done, that gives 4 'channels' for
> use. Something to consider there about 'channel' hopping in the
> software.
>
> Greg, KO6TH, brings up about the timing protocols. Maybe the HSMM group
> or TAPR would consider looking at the protocols and maybe modify them
> much like AX.25 was done for packet back in the 1980's.
>
>
> Mark and Drew bring up about noise levels being unacceptable on a few of
> the lower bands. This might be mitigated with the use of the
> 'slide-band' modification by changing out the 20MHz crystal for a more
> appropriate frequency. As I noted earlier, more about the 'slide-band'
> mod for the 54GL is at the hsmm-mesh pages.
>
> So if some of these obstacles can be 'overcome', would this be a
> 'viable' consideration? Could something like this be utilized to gain
> the faster input speeds that are wanted for uploading/ downloading
> images, files, and maybe store and forward systems that could tie into
> the regional packet networks utilizing JNOS 2.0, WinLink, and FBB.
>
> I just miss having something that is more than just APRS-related on the
> satellites. This in no way is a knock on the present 1k2 sats, its just
> that my KPC-9612 has been VERY under-utilized since the mid-1990's and I
> miss having that fun :(
>
> I am not a rocket scientist, electrical engineer, or a sat designer.
> These are just personal thoughts to see if this 'idea' is even feasible.
> My thoughts could be seriously flawed and skewed and totally 'out of
> this world' to say. For all I know, this might be one of those bright
> ideas that would work better with a placement on the lunar surface as
> long as it doesn't interfere with EME work and can survive the harsh
> environment there. That would be a TOTALLY separate discussion in itself
> alone.
>
> James W8ISS
> =====
> On Tue, 2013-02-19 at 10:12 -0500, James French wrote:
> > What are the possibilities of building a satellite that uses a Linksys
> > WRT54GL router with a modified DD-wrt or HSMM-Mesh software as a store
> > and forward BBS, to route a received request from one station to another
> > station, or even to connect to a on board networked camera to receive
> > images?
> >
> > What kind of uplink power would be needed from the home station?
> >
> > How fast could the speed(s) get theoretically?
> >
> > How big would the antenna have to be on the craft and for the ground
> > station to even be able to do this adequately?
> >
> > Would the doppler be too much to even consider this?
> >
> > Would the space environment be too harsh for something like this?
> >
> > This is just something I was thinking about this morning and thought I
> > would toss it out.
> >
> > James W8ISS
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:08:40 -0500
From: Roger <Rogerkola@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite?
Message-ID: <5127DE58.2020603@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Could a gain antenna be incorporated into a gradient boom for aiming?
Roger
WA1KAT
On 2/22/2013 3:06 PM, James French wrote:
> Lee and those who have responded so far,
>
> Those are the questions that would need to be answered before even
> considering this 'novel' idea.
> Could the satellite
> utilize a modified 'backfire' antenna (referencing AO-40 2.4GHz
> antennas) that utilizes dipoles offset from the surface on every side
> and then use the surface of the satellite itself for gain?
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:31:29 -0500
From: jim@xxxxxx.xx
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] current operational amateur satellite lits
Message-ID: <b2672edfa582899e86046bcd5bb4bee8.squirrel@xxxx.xxxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Can anyone direct me to a lits of currently operational amateur satellites??
Thanks.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:32:15 -0500
From: Lizeth Norman <normanlizeth@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: STRaND-1 Launch Information
Message-ID:
<CAJUhCTNk6+fVv3Yx2NRb=63jH6HWrzmDQ-C=x=Ywsz-xxFT_mw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
All,
Apropos the current thread: Where is the S band downlink coordinated???
Would be nice if they allowed us to view the pictures.
Norm n3ykf
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:36:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite?
Message-ID:
<1361568961.12266.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
--- On Fri, 22/2/13, Joshua Abraham <jarvideo@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I seem to remember reading about a successful experiment involving high
> altitude balloons.
See http://www.nrl.navy.mil/content_images/07Information_Rupar.pdf
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:44:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: STRaND-1 Launch Information
Message-ID:
<1361569481.87328.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
--- On Fri, 22/2/13, Lizeth Norman <normanlizeth@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Apropos the current thread: Where is the S band downlink
> coordinated???
> Would be nice if they allowed us to view the pictures.
There is no S-Band downlink.
The images will be sent on 437.568 MHz when over Guildford, Surrey using the
Saratoga protocol, see
http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/publications/internet-drafts/d
raft-wood-tsvwg-saratoga/wood-eddy-saratoga-dtn-iwssc-07.pdf
http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/publications/internet-drafts/d
raft-wood-tsvwg-saratoga/will-ivancic-saratoga-ietf-81-tsvwg-session.pdf
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:47:19 -0600
From: "Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: current operational amateur satellite lits
Message-ID: <000001ce1146$309754d0$91c5fe70$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php
It used to be here but the site crashes (and has been doing so for quite a
while).
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of jim@xxxxxx.xx
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:31 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] current operational amateur satellite lits
Can anyone direct me to a lits of currently operational amateur satellites??
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:52:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: current operational amateur satellite list
Message-ID:
<1361569971.46092.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Can anyone direct me to a list of currently operational
> amateur satellites?
See http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?s=active+satellites&x=0&y=0
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:44:34 -0500
From: Anthony Monteiro <aa2tx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: current operational amateur satellite list
Message-ID: <512810F2.70805@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Jim,
In addition to DK3WN's page, you may find
this page useful:
http://oscar.dcarr.org/
73,
Tony AA2TX
---
On 2/22/2013 4:52 PM, Trevor . wrote:
>> Can anyone direct me to a list of currently operational
>> amateur satellites?
>
> See http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?s=active+satellites&x=0&y=0
>
> 73 Trevor M5AKA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 03:41:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Christian F1AFZ <f1afz@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re : Re: current operational amateur satellite
lits
Message-ID: <8CFDFB8B15068CE-15A0-46A3F@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello,
http://www.f1afz.fr/satellites/satellites.php
73's Christian F1AFZ
http://www.f1afz.fr
F1AFZ sur Twitter : http://twitter.com/f1afz
-----E-mail d'origine-----
De : Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
A: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Envoy? le : Ve, 22 F?v 2013 23:00
Sujet : [amsat-bb] Re: current operational amateur satellite lits
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php
It used to be here but the site crashes (and has been doing so for quite a
while).
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of jim@xxxxxx.xx
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:31 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] current operational amateur satellite lits
Can anyone direct me to a lits of currently operational amateur satellites?
Thanks.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 22:46:55 -0600
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite?
Message-ID: <BLU176-W4A869D0858612EE2A7143D6F10@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
There has been some work done with wireless routers and amplifiers in
several balloon flights in association with the Wx bureau. A group which I
am a part of got the equivalent of an SBIR from a federal agency to do this
work (plus they helped us get on the balloons. There is no secret here
really, the various formulas associated with link margins etc "work" (grin)
and the links were quite solid AND city RF made little difference.
Directional arrays on the ground are ones friend and even near "WiFI"
hotspots the systems worked well (that was part of the test).
The main issue for a satellite particularly one in LEO is going to be
doppler shift. Farther out of course the shift is less but link margin is
more difficult.
The frequencies are different but we are now using TACSAT 4 for some test.
Robert WB5MZO
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:36:01 +0000
> From: m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2.4GHz broadband router on satellite?
>
> --- On Fri, 22/2/13, Joshua Abraham <jarvideo@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > I seem to remember reading about a successful experiment involving high
> > altitude balloons.
>
> See http://www.nrl.navy.mil/content_images/07Information_Rupar.pdf
>
> 73 Trevor M5AKA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:26:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, "FLWSS@xxxxx.xxxx
<FLWSS@xxxxx.xxx>, AMSAT-FL <amsat-florida@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Yaesu FT-726R parts available
Message-ID:
<27671930.1361640379638.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I have an old 726 that I'm parting out. The band modules are headed for Ebay
today, but if anyone needs another part, please let me know. Unfortunately,
no satellite board or CTCSS encoder. No guarantees any of it works, but the
price will be right. The radio did power up but had low output and issues
with the VFO encoder.
Email at ko4ma@xxxxx.xxx please.
73, Drew KO4MA
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 8, Issue 57
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