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CX2SA > SATDIG 26.09.12 08:14l 976 Lines 34639 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. winaos (Bob- W7LRD)
2. AO-7 OH5LK?? (Bob- W7LRD)
3. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(Andrew Glasbrenner)
4. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue
312) (Edward R Cole)
5. Re: AO-7 OH5LK?? (Trevor .)
6. modified metaphor (K4FEG)
7. Out of Office (Martha)
8. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(Andrew Glasbrenner)
9. TechEdSat launch from ISS Thursday (galysh@xxxx.xxx.xxxx.xxxx
10. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(Daniel Schultz)
11. LVB Tracker & SAT32PC Help making them play nicely needed
(James Luhn)
12. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue
312) (Tony Langdon)
13. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(R Oler)
14. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(R Oler)
15. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(R Oler)
16. Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue 312)
(R Oler)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:04:57 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] winaos
Message-ID:
<1609658912.18913.1348599897226.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxx
xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
disregard my last email for help with winaos...nothing like reading all the
directions..73 Bob
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:18:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-7 OH5LK??
Message-ID:
<962176020.19085.1348600706391.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxxx
x.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I heard OH5LK cqing on AO7 could not find myself quick enough to pounce.
He's not in qrz, anyone know?
work them till they drop
'73 Bob W7LRD
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:42:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID:
<30414484.1348602164180.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>Specific question. Has AMSAT approached SpaceX for a "good cause" launch?
RGO WB5MZO
Yes. We went to them, and they came to us to talk about DragonLab.
Keep in mind both ARISSat and now Fox have had "good cause" launches
provided, but strictly due to the educational component.
73, Drew KO4MA
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:00:32 -0800
From: Edward R Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Bill W1PA" <w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol.
7, Issue 312)
Message-ID: <201209252000.q8PK0WLe083146@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 10:06 AM 9/25/2012, Bill W1PA wrote:
>Based on the economics, those of us with aspirations of having a HEO
>in the near future might be better off
>upgrading our set-ups for the high-reliability _passive_ HEO that is
>available (aka EME).
>
>With absolutely no intent at sarcasm, any pointers to articles on
>how to take a HEO-class station up to EME-capable?
>
>Are "small station-small station" QSO's possible on EME, or does at
>least one station have to look like W5UN or Arecibo? (ok, maybe a
>little sarcasm)
>
>Bill W1PA (sitting on some collapsible C-band dishes)
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bill,
I will break my current policy of not contributing info to amsat-bb
and answer this one -- as I am one former HEO user that migrated to
eme. In truth that began before the launch of AO-40. I copied my
first eme signal in the fall of 1997 from a large eme station running
CW. I used half of my 20T cushcraft 2m satellite antenna (the
vertical half) and my ARR preamp. In 1998-99 I began building my eme station:
http://www.kl7uw.com/eme144.htm
I started with two M2 XP20 (ten-element yagi), an ARR P144VDG preamp
and a 120w motorola repeater PA to work W5UN and KB8RQ on CW. This
grew to my current four XP20 with polarity switching and better
preamps plus 1300w PA (8877).
Any one that still has an AO-40 class 2m antenna (at least 10-element
and 13 dBi gain) with a good 2m preamp and at least 150w amplifier
can become an entry-level 2m-eme station. You still probably will
not be able to contact a similar equipped station but there are many
stations like mine that you can work. Az-el tracking helps but not
absolutely necessary.
This is possible with smaller stations due to the digital sw called
JT65. JT65 enables detection of signals 10-dB weaker than CW can be
copied. The old standard station for CW eme was four ten-element
yagis and 600w output (typ what one got from a pair of 4CX250's under
the old 1000w maximum dc input regulation).
One yagi is 6-dB less than four and 150w is 6-dB less than 600w,
totaling a drop of 12-dB.
With two 13-dBi yagis and 400-600w one can work stations of the same
size (though it may be difficult at times).
JT65 is available FREE and downloaded from:
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/
click the link to WSJT and download WSJT9.3
Those that are serious about trying eme should consider subscribing
to the MoonNet e-mail reflector where one can find plenty of help
getting started:
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
The above suggestion is provided to those stations that miss HEO sats
and desire more technical challenge than they experience with FM LEO
(orbiting repeaters).
I will reply directly to inquiries or questions but will not post
further on amsat-bb.
73, Ed - KL7UW
600m - 3cm
EME: 50/144/432/1296/3400
http://www.kl7uw.com/
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:18:15 +0100 (BST)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 OH5LK??
Message-ID:
<1348604295.85267.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
--- On Tue, 25/9/12, Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I heard OH5LK cqing on AO7 could not find myself quick enough to pounce.
> He's not in qrz, anyone know?
Station listed as being here:
http://www.dxmaps.com/callbook/gmap.php?Lan=&Call=OH5LK&Loc=KP30MN
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:28:15 -0500
From: K4FEG <K4FEG@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] modified metaphor
Message-ID: <506213DF.708@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
we have all heard the old expression: "there's no such thing as a
free lunch!"
the AMSAT version is: "There's no such thing as a free launch!"
I always wondered why they had that digital burst at the end of the the
AO27 timer? to help "soothe" us!
What will they think of next? The wonders never cease!
In the words of the famous philosopher Ted Turner: " Lead, Follow or get
out of my way!"
73 all
feg
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:32:44 -0400
From: Martha <martha@xxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Out of Office
Message-ID:
<CAPk0USzz6oOg_Vu4-0nBawEEj8sfk0eJLv=+PGtSyNeVp5CqtA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I will be out of the office tomorrow.
--
73- Martha
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:17:00 -0400
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID: <59242F30-EF73-4DCE-AC52-1AFF6E27248B@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
They weren't offering a free launch on Dragonlab. See my previous post about
pricing.
This is about as much as I'm going to say on the topic at this point. If you
have a real, hard lead, please share it with me or another director or
officer privately.
73, Drew KO4MA
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 25, 2012, at 7:52 PM, R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Are we pursing the Dragon lab option? Robert WB5MZO
>
> > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:42:43 -0400
> > From: glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
> > Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol.
7, Issue 312)
> > CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> >
> > >Specific question. Has AMSAT approached SpaceX for a "good cause"
launch? RGO WB5MZO
> >
> > Yes. We went to them, and they came to us to talk about DragonLab.
> >
> > Keep in mind both ARISSat and now Fox have had "good cause" launches
provided, but strictly due to the educational component.
> >
> > 73, Drew KO4MA
> >
> >
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 00:43:34 -0000
From: <galysh@xxxx.xxx.xxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] TechEdSat launch from ISS Thursday
Message-ID: <twig.1348620214.64099@xxxx.xxx.xxxx.xxx>
For anyone interested, San Jose University with NASA Ames is having
TechEdSat deployed from the ISS Thursday at 910AM PDT. The satellite will
start transmitting 40 minutes after deployment. They are asking for
telemetry reports to be sent to:
http://techedsat.com/index.php?option=com_proforms&view=form&jid=1&Itemid=189
The TechEdSAT (CubeSat) has a website.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TechEdSat
Also:
http://techedsat.com/
TechEdSat transmits a heartbeat packet over amateur radio every 4 seconds.
These packets are 122 ASCII character AX.25 packets. Amateur band radio
frequency is 437.465 MHz.
*It will have the same orbital elements as the ISS – at least for the
initial period.
Thanks,
Ivan
KD4HBO
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 00:05:26 -0400
From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@xxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID: <230qiZeeA5232S04.1348632326@xxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> ...if here in Houston we had to "pay rent" for our tower space (and we have
a
> couple of them) then the group that I am a part of which has a pretty nice
> repeater/packet system would simply be out of luck. What we were able to
do
> is convince the folks who usually take the large dollars to view us as a
> public service and we get the tower space (and the everything else space
> including Electricity) for 10 dollars a year.
>
> While AMSAT and other groups might or not compete with paying payloads
> have we lost the ability to go out and convince people that AMSAT is a
> worthy cause?
Amsat has tried to sell the emergency and disaster communications aspect of
amateur radio but so far nobody has bitten on that bait. Getting space on a
tower is a few thousand dollars per year, getting a free satellite launch
represents a thousand times more money. A local ham club working with local
public safety officials can show them directly how valuable hams can be, on
the national level we are trying to appeal to a big bureaucracy with little
practical experience. Most of the rest of the world regards ham radio as an
outmoded hobby practiced by elderly white males. It has been said before in
this forum that nobody is going to donate money so that hams can talk to Japan
through an amateur satellite.
Amsat is not the only worthy non-profit in space these days. We compete with
many other amateur space groups, including the Google Lunar X prize teams.
Education is what brings in the big bucks today. The grant makers have fully
swallowed the phony notion that there is a "critical shortage" of engineers
and scientists, and they donate to causes that support STEM education. Our
ability to access space in the future depends on how well we work with the
education community. We need to stress that a real engineering design course
must include designing for reliability and a long lived communications
mission.
Amsat has a long and proud history of (mostly) successful satellites, which
gives us credibility in the field, if we don't allow others to rewrite history
and claim credit for things that we did first.
There is always an exception to every rule however, and if we ever find a
launch provider who thinks that amateur radio in space is a worthy cause, we
will be prepared to jump on it. It all depends on building personal
relationships with persons who are in a position to say yes, and as you know,
hams come from all walks of life, including corporate executives, military
officers and scientists.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:49:02 -0500
From: James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] LVB Tracker & SAT32PC Help making them play nicely
needed
Message-ID: <5062893E.7070308@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I think Bob, W7LRD, and I have a common block to some of our computer
applications. I am in the process of getting my G-5500 rotor, LVB
Tracker, and IC-910H to all play nicely with one another using SAT32PC
software (v12.8). I am using a Panasonic Toughbook Computer with the
serial port (com4) connected to the ICOM CT-17 level converter for
frequency control of the IC-910. A USB port (com1) is used to talk
with the LVB Tracker. Frequency control works terrific. I cannot make
the rotor control work however. The LVB Tracker manually controls the
rotor just fine. I can also control the rotor position by opening a
terminal window and giving commands(which indicates to me commands are
going down the USB pipe). When I give a park command via SAT32PC,
nothing happens nor does the rotor respond to other movement commands
from the SAT32PC software. I know I must be overlooking something very
simple and perhaps a good nights sleep might help me to resolve my
problem. Can someone share the "secret" of rotor control with me?
Hopefully no secret handshakes or needed. Any help will be sincerely
appreciated.
73,
-james
W5AOO
soon to be an ex "one armed paper hanger" in the satellite arena
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:38:18 +1000
From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@xxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol.
7, Issue 312)
Message-ID: <506294d4.4988440a.6dcc.ffff95b1@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 02:05 PM 9/26/2012, Daniel Schultz wrote:
>Amsat has tried to sell the emergency and disaster communications aspect of
>amateur radio but so far nobody has bitten on that bait. Getting space on a
>tower is a few thousand dollars per year, getting a free satellite launch
>represents a thousand times more money. A local ham club working with local
>public safety officials can show them directly how valuable hams can be, on
>the national level we are trying to appeal to a big bureaucracy with little
>practical experience. Most of the rest of the world regards ham radio as an
>outmoded hobby practiced by elderly white males. It has been said before in
>this forum that nobody is going to donate money so that hams can talk to
Japan
>through an amateur satellite.
>
>Amsat is not the only worthy non-profit in space these days. We compete with
>many other amateur space groups, including the Google Lunar X prize teams.
>Education is what brings in the big bucks today. The grant makers have fully
>swallowed the phony notion that there is a "critical shortage" of engineers
>and scientists, and they donate to causes that support STEM education. Our
>ability to access space in the future depends on how well we work with the
>education community. We need to stress that a real engineering design course
>must include designing for reliability and a long lived communications
>mission.
I've watched this discussion for some time, and have a couple of
things to say. Given what has been done in the past, and what is
most likely practical, I don't see a lot of potential for amateur
satellites in emergency communication. They could be pressed into
service for remote area messaging, but real time communication is
more likely to take place on HF, which is open in regional areas more
often and for longer than the typical LEO pass. Maybe a
geostationary satellite could be more practical for emergency use,
though there would need to be 3 to cover (almost) all of the Earth -
and my particular side would be at the bottom of the heap, unless it
was the Chinese who put the bird up there.
I see a lot more potential in partnering with the education
community. They're seeking to train aerospace engineers, and perhaps
working with this community - as mentors, given there's a lot of
proven satellite expertise in AMSAT, as well as "clients" (to have
students building to a specification). Amateur radio itself is about
learning - usually self learning, but education would seem to broadly
fall in the learning side of the hobby. Sharing that with industry
and getting working transponders in return would seem like a
win-win. I do think it should be a two way street, AMSAT helps the
students and universities achieve their educational goals, and gets a
working bird in return, once the primary mission is completed. From
what was posted about Fox earlier, that sounds like a good example of
this sort of thing.
And of someone wanted to try out a new propulsion system on a live
satellite, I'm sure AMSAT would be more than happy to help with the
comms side of things.
However, I also understand that times have changed, and I may never
get the opportunity to try working a HEO in my lifetime. I'm not
going to bag AMSAT for that, it's just the way the industry has gone,
and the old launch opportunities have dried up.
73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:52:21 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID: <COL106-W115A455983877E7C5AD09ED69D0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Bob General or specific rants are "OK". Look I go to FAA meetings every
six months to hang on to my DPE certification and after a bit unless the
presenter is very good...you cover the same thing over and over after two
decades of doing this.
I just dont agree with much of what you are saying.
There is "upmass" that is at least "not taken" by operating payloads. OSC
is going to use a mass simulator for their Antares launch, there has not
been a Falcon9 that has flown anywhere near "full payload mass", the next
one on October 7 or there abouts wont do it...there is likely to be a Falcon
heavy less then full launch at some point in the next 2-5 years...
http://www.spaceflightservices.com/MHome.php
these people are going to try a business on the notion of carrying secondary
payloads on the Falcon9...there is a basic bus associated with them...when
the bus is done is it possible that there is room to put an amateur payload
on that?
there are "places" on the Falcon9 second stage for "small payloads"...what
was the payload that flew on an Ariane second stage and stayed attached to
it? IDEFIX or something like that...
I've never quite gotten an answer as to why we are not trying to get a
linear transponder attached permanently to ISS? Since the Russians ran the
last satellite as a sort of ISS payload for a bit its clear that there is
some room there to at least try that. Or maybe not; the last satellite from
ISS seemed to "toast" a lot of bridges so maybe those options are gone.
Andrew raised Dragon lab...if we can get a payload on Dragonlab that strikes
me as a good "door opener" with SpaceX...
Now would any of these organizations dole out 5-10-100 lbs of payload
for an amateur radio satellite? I dont know and maybe everyone at AMSat
is asking as hard as they can and getting the door slammed in their
faces...but that is a different story then "there is no launches'
Whats the approach to take with these people? AMSAT is big in the
educational mode and maybe that is the only pony that the organization has,
but maybe there are other approaches that would be more productive.
When the group I am a part of wanted to move our repeater/beacon complex
from a members tower in Clear Lake to something "better" we got a lot of
no's until we got some yes's but we didnt use education at all. We used
emergency communications (which payed off when the hurricane came FEMA
started using our repeater system), public service and a few other things
and finally made it through the door. For it we got 300 feet or tower
height, a rack space and emergency power. When the time came the folks
there even gave us hardline...
Since you brought up "politics"...all I know is that trying the same thing
over and over usually ensures getting the same results. I dont think we are
going to see an AO-10,13 or 40 again because of the propulsion issue. I
doubt any group is going to let a pyalod on with a motor unless there are
"real rocket scientist" doing the job...the record has not been all that
sterling.
As for going to the "null file"...gee I am a life member of Amsat and well I
am surprised that these post are showing up on the board...
Robert WB5MZO
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:59:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7, Issue
312)
From: rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx
To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Robert:
You are going to be used for my generic rant, it's not personal. I can get
away with this because I have no official role.
AMSAT here and elsewhere has NO desire to become just another customer for
exactly the reasons you describe. It amazes me that anyone thinks we don't
know this.
There is a reason for Cubesat work. It's about the only "free" ride
available. Here in the USA, we have NASA ELaNa and there are similar
programs elsewhere as essentially our only access to space.
The Chinese "amateur" space groups are doing larger spacecraft but they have
direct government support as they try to build a spacefaring cadre of
engineers and scientists.
In the early days/years of AMSAT we could talk NASA or ESA folks into
letting us on board. Now, there are no ESA test rides and Arianespace is a
corporation, desirous of making a profit, and giving away rides doesn't
contribute to their task of helping the bottom line.
People seem to think that AMSAT-anywhere have gotten lazy, stupid, old,
whatever. It is not true. We can build tiny sat's or micro sat's and get
them up with only cubesats being relatively easy. I've seen a few of our
older supporters tell folks where to send their donations and support......
This reminds me of being told things by politicians these days.. Promise
much, deliver nothing,,,
How has that worked out for folks?
If ANYONE has a known likely way to space for a significant amateur
transponder only mission, I dare say you will get trampled by AMSAT-anywhere
to get to the provider.
In general, suggestions like "why don't you folks" or "I think you folks
should" go directly to the null file because they consume AMSAT archive
storage and only increase its noise floor and they are known to the utter
novices working directly with AMSAT-Anywhere.
Bob
On Tuesday, September 25, 2012, R Oler wrote:
Drew.
If AMSAT becomes or has become "just another customer" of launchers then you
are probably correct and even more so the future for "realsats" ie ones that
actually do communications is bleak.
I am sort of surprised that this is the "thought" ...if here in Houston we
had to "pay rent" for our tower space (and we have a couple of them) then
the group that I am a part of which has a pretty nice repeater/packet system
would simply be out of luck. What we were able to do is convince the folks
who usually take the large dollars to view us as a public service and we get
the tower space (and the everything else space including Electricity) for 10
dollars a year.
My boss routinely sends his Gulfstream fleet out to do things for which
people "pay" nothing or little because he gives to good causes.
While AMSAT and other groups might or not compete with paying payloads have
we lost the ability to go out and convince people that AMSAT is a worthy
cause?
Specific question. Has AMSAT approached SpaceX for a "good cause" launch?
RGO WB5MZO
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:47:28 -0400
From: glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
I'll just leave this here, to prove the reality of the situation:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1913/1
"Doud said that SpaceX recently completed an internal study on the
feasibility of flying secondary payloads. That effort also developed
prices for flying those secondary payloads, which he disclosed in his
presentation. A P-POD would cost between $200,000 and $325,000 for
missions to LEO, or $350,000 to $575,000 for missions to geosynchronous
transfer orbit (GTO). An ESPA-class satellite weighing up to 180
kilograms would cost $4?5 million for LEO missions and $7?9 million for
GTO missions, he said."
73, Drew KO4MA
-
Drew..No it is not a false premise.
.if SpaceX is flying with "not used" mass we should at least approach them
to be able to see if we could put payloads on the vehicle..or take something
to ISS...there is mass and space, the launch on Oct 7 will only carry 1000
lbs. Also we might be able to find some space on the Falcon heavy launch.
Robert WB5MZO
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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--
Bob McGwier
Owner and Technical Director, Allied Communication, LLC
Facebook: N4HYBob
ARS: N4HY
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:52:59 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID: <COL106-W44DEF0560BA85453233C3FD69D0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Are we pursing the Dragon lab option? Robert WB5MZO
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:42:43 -0400
> From: glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
> Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>
> >Specific question. Has AMSAT approached SpaceX for a "good cause"
launch? RGO WB5MZO
>
> Yes. We went to them, and they came to us to talk about DragonLab.
>
> Keep in mind both ARISSat and now Fox have had "good cause" launches
provided, but strictly due to the educational component.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:49:30 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID: <COL106-W46A4BD3698055D8FBBBEFCD69C0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Drew...I didnt see any prices for Dragon lab, all I got was a link to a
SpaceReview article which is of course a great site but public.
have a great day thanks for the time, I know you are busy...RGO WB5MZO
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> From: glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:17:00 -0400
> To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
>
> They weren't offering a free launch on Dragonlab. See my previous post
about pricing.
>
> This is about as much as I'm going to say on the topic at this point. If
you have a real, hard lead, please share it with me or another director or
officer privately.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 7:52 PM, R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > Are we pursing the Dragon lab option? Robert WB5MZO
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:42:43 -0400
> > > From: glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
> > > Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest,
Vol. 7, Issue 312)
> > > CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > >
> > > >Specific question. Has AMSAT approached SpaceX for a "good cause"
launch? RGO WB5MZO
> > >
> > > Yes. We went to them, and they came to us to talk about DragonLab.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind both ARISSat and now Fox have had "good cause" launches
provided, but strictly due to the educational component.
> > >
> > > 73, Drew KO4MA
> > >
> > >
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 00:14:16 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <n8fgv@xxx.xxx>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol. 7,
Issue 312)
Message-ID: <COL106-W56FEB855E3DEE3EB1B499CD69C0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dan.
thanks for the reply (we will see how long my comments leak through to the
BB...I expect the filters to start any moment now)
What I am suggesting is that AMSAT needs to think outside the box in terms
of justifying satellites. I dont know that public service will or wont
sell...but for instance (and I am just musing this)
Maybe we can get some traction on ISS by figure out a way to use an amateur
radio payload as a proof of operation for Dextre? there is some use planned
for Dextre in the December (at least notationally now) flight of a Dragon
(ie CRS 2).
Finally while I think "personal histories" are great; there needs to be
something more then that; there has to be some reason that advances the
cause of the launch provider to get the "sizzle" that pony up a free launch.
I agree that a launch campaign is not free space on a tower, but the point
is that we could not have afforded the space on the three towers we are on
(for various devices) had we not gotten them for "10 dollars and a shake"
...and to do that we had to come up with a package that got the people who
owned the tower interested in what we did.
We did that and I suspect if AMSAT starts looking outside of the "education
box" they will find one as well.
Meanwhile Oscar 7 keeps on chugging RGO WB5MZO
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 00:05:26 -0400
> From: n8fgv@xxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Launch Costs (was-re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol.
7, Issue 312)
>
> > ...if here in Houston we had to "pay rent" for our tower space (and we
have
> a
> > couple of them) then the group that I am a part of which has a pretty nice
> > repeater/packet system would simply be out of luck. What we were able to
> do
> > is convince the folks who usually take the large dollars to view us as a
> > public service and we get the tower space (and the everything else space
> > including Electricity) for 10 dollars a year.
> >
> > While AMSAT and other groups might or not compete with paying payloads
> > have we lost the ability to go out and convince people that AMSAT is a
> > worthy cause?
>
> Amsat has tried to sell the emergency and disaster communications aspect of
> amateur radio but so far nobody has bitten on that bait. Getting space on a
> tower is a few thousand dollars per year, getting a free satellite launch
> represents a thousand times more money. A local ham club working with local
> public safety officials can show them directly how valuable hams can be, on
> the national level we are trying to appeal to a big bureaucracy with little
> practical experience. Most of the rest of the world regards ham radio as an
> outmoded hobby practiced by elderly white males. It has been said before in
> this forum that nobody is going to donate money so that hams can talk to
Japan
> through an amateur satellite.
>
> Amsat is not the only worthy non-profit in space these days. We compete with
> many other amateur space groups, including the Google Lunar X prize teams.
> Education is what brings in the big bucks today. The grant makers have fully
> swallowed the phony notion that there is a "critical shortage" of engineers
> and scientists, and they donate to causes that support STEM education. Our
> ability to access space in the future depends on how well we work with the
> education community. We need to stress that a real engineering design course
> must include designing for reliability and a long lived communications
> mission.
>
> Amsat has a long and proud history of (mostly) successful satellites, which
> gives us credibility in the field, if we don't allow others to rewrite
history
> and claim credit for things that we did first.
>
> There is always an exception to every rule however, and if we ever find a
> launch provider who thinks that amateur radio in space is a worthy cause, we
> will be prepared to jump on it. It all depends on building personal
> relationships with persons who are in a position to say yes, and as you
know,
> hams come from all walks of life, including corporate executives, military
> officers and scientists.
>
> Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 7, Issue 319
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