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CX2SA > SATDIG 20.09.12 21:03l 582 Lines 22852 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA (James Luhn)
2. Re: 22% votes (Bob- W7LRD)
3. Re: 22% votes (John)
4. Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA
(Zilvinas, LY2SS)
5. Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA (Gus 8P6SM)
6. AC0RA/m (wyattdirks)
7. ISS_KIBO CubeSats Release Time (Mineo Wakita)
8. Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA
(Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY])
9. Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA (John)
10. Re: ISS_KIBO CubeSats Release Time (Trevor .)
11. Bill Tynsn, W3XO, Wins 2012 Barry Goldwater Award
(Rsoifer@xxx.xxxx
12. back on (Bob- W7LRD)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:42:00 -0500
From: James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA
Message-ID: <505A9E98.3050303@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Everyone has been so terrific helping me understand every aspect of
Satellite communications. I have another question that may really show
my ignorance of this part of the hobby. Hopefully I will not be banned
from ever asking another dumb question.
I will be working with a Boy Scout troop on October 20 participating
with JOTA (Jamboree On The Air). Is there an easy way to predict when
the various satellites and ISS will be passing overhead on October 20?
It would be nice to know the times and locations for October 20 weeks
ahead.
I wonder if others will be participating in JOTA by demonstrating the
use of satellites.
Thanks and 73,
-james
W5AOO
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 04:45:37 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID:
<34566330.53592.1348116337234.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxxxx
.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Gus...a bit painful to read, however I agree with about 99.9% if it. The
truth hurts.
73 Bob W7LED
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus 8P6SM" <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:30:50 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
On 09/19/2012 06:09 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:
> If you are going to push education, it's not real easy to sell someone like
> NASA who has launchers available, that their interest in education is
> served by launching an AO-40 replacement when it'll be full of "real hams"
> and little opportunity for students. The road to reduced cost launches lies
> with the education card and that is the path AMSAT-NA is on and until one
> of the "real hams" wants to step up and head a drive to raise several
> million dollars, I think you'll all be dead a buried before another AO-40
> flies.
I fear you are correct. About the likelihood of another HEO launch.
But I disagree about the rest.
The education card may gain us cheaper launches, but why are we
bothering? A recent post here mentioned a five-satellite CubeSat
launch, concluding that "Four of the CubeSats carry Amateur Radio
payloads..." Excuse me?
F-1 transmits on 145.980 MHz and 437.485 MHz which are both ham
frequencies. But hams can't use this bird, because unless you want to
look at earth images (and live in the vicinity of the ground-station) or
you are interested in the spacecraft's obscure telemetry, there is
nothing for you here. And if you ARE interested, you don't have to be a
ham radio operator to "use" the satellite. All you need is the
appropriate receiver and no license.
FITSAT-1 transmits on 437.250 MHz, 437.445 MHz and 5.840 GHz. Again,
all ham frequencies, and again, useable by ANYONE, with or without a ham
license, because all you need is a receiver (seeing as all you can do is
listen to some more obscure telemetry). The Hi-Brite LEDs writing CW in
the sky is really neet... but you won't see it unless you live near the
ground-station.... which I don't
WE-WISH (apparently) downlinks on ham frequency 437.505 MHz. It seems
to have a thermal imager on it, and presumably lots more obscure
telemetry. Once again, non-hams can use this as easily as hams because
it only requires you have a receiver, no interaction being possible.
TechEdSat will allow you (and any non-ham with a receiver) to listen to
the obscure telemetry (hereinafter "ObsTel") on ham frequency 437.465
MHz. Why you would want to, I can't imagine.
So. Is this the sort of "Amateur Radio Payload" that we should hope
for, if we continue to play the education card? Personally, I can't see
why we should bother. Judging by these satellites, the phrase "carries
an amateur radio payload" really means "usurps amateur radio frequencies
for non-amateur use for telemetry and telecommand on non-amateur
satellites".
Let me make it plain. I have no objection to (and indeed, I support)
satellites being launched for educational reasons. I suppose that I
really don't even object to the HamSat frequencies being used for
non-ham purposes, seeing as WE aren't using those frequencies for
anything much. But what are we gaining from playing this education
card? The hope that occasionally, we can arrange the launch of some
short lifespan, low range, fast pass, single channel FM bird that I get
to shout callsign and gridsquare at for 6-8 minutes at a time, on a good
day?
You know, I don't have 10M to spare, to pay for a HEO launch. If I did,
I would. I might scrape together 10K to donate. But honestly now, why
should I? Apparently there will never be another AO-13 for me (and
"real hams") to enjoy, because such a bird will offer little opportunity
for students.
But of course, I am nobody special, and not even an AMSAT member (I'll
tell you why, if you want me to) so you can safely ignore my post.
--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:56:58 -0500
From: John <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID: <C490335B-B514-4672-981F-828F119EA414@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Gus, I understand what you are saying I share the same thoughts on the use
of the frequencies. Maybe by their use of them it keeps them active. I don't
presume to have the answers or the money. I just wish I knew what a "real"
ham is or was because no matter what part of the hobby I stick my nose into
it seems the "good old days" are the measure. My observation of the hobby
from my short 12 years in is that it's a hobby terribly stuck in the past
for a large number of folks.
John AG9D
Sent from my iPod
On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> On 09/19/2012 06:09 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:
>> If you are going to push education, it's not real easy to sell someone like
>> NASA who has launchers available, that their interest in education is
>> served by launching an AO-40 replacement when it'll be full of "real hams"
>> and little opportunity for students. The road to reduced cost launches lies
>> with the education card and that is the path AMSAT-NA is on and until one
>> of the "real hams" wants to step up and head a drive to raise several
>> million dollars, I think you'll all be dead a buried before another AO-40
>> flies.
>
> I fear you are correct. About the likelihood of another HEO launch. But I
disagree about the rest.
>
> The education card may gain us cheaper launches, but why are we bothering?
A recent post here mentioned a five-satellite CubeSat launch, concluding
that "Four of the CubeSats carry Amateur Radio payloads..." Excuse me?
>
> F-1 transmits on 145.980 MHz and 437.485 MHz which are both ham
frequencies. But hams can't use this bird, because unless you want to look
at earth images (and live in the vicinity of the ground-station) or you are
interested in the spacecraft's obscure telemetry, there is nothing for you
here. And if you ARE interested, you don't have to be a ham radio operator
to "use" the satellite. All you need is the appropriate receiver and no
license.
>
> FITSAT-1 transmits on 437.250 MHz, 437.445 MHz and 5.840 GHz. Again, all
ham frequencies, and again, useable by ANYONE, with or without a ham
license, because all you need is a receiver (seeing as all you can do is
listen to some more obscure telemetry). The Hi-Brite LEDs writing CW in the
sky is really neet... but you won't see it unless you live near the
ground-station.... which I don't
>
> WE-WISH (apparently) downlinks on ham frequency 437.505 MHz. It seems to
have a thermal imager on it, and presumably lots more obscure telemetry.
Once again, non-hams can use this as easily as hams because it only requires
you have a receiver, no interaction being possible.
>
> TechEdSat will allow you (and any non-ham with a receiver) to listen to
the obscure telemetry (hereinafter "ObsTel") on ham frequency 437.465 MHz.
Why you would want to, I can't imagine.
>
> So. Is this the sort of "Amateur Radio Payload" that we should hope for,
if we continue to play the education card? Personally, I can't see why we
should bother. Judging by these satellites, the phrase "carries an amateur
radio payload" really means "usurps amateur radio frequencies for
non-amateur use for telemetry and telecommand on non-amateur satellites".
>
> Let me make it plain. I have no objection to (and indeed, I support)
satellites being launched for educational reasons. I suppose that I really
don't even object to the HamSat frequencies being used for non-ham purposes,
seeing as WE aren't using those frequencies for anything much. But what are
we gaining from playing this education card? The hope that occasionally, we
can arrange the launch of some short lifespan, low range, fast pass, single
channel FM bird that I get to shout callsign and gridsquare at for 6-8
minutes at a time, on a good day?
>
> You know, I don't have 10M to spare, to pay for a HEO launch. If I did, I
would. I might scrape together 10K to donate. But honestly now, why should
I? Apparently there will never be another AO-13 for me (and "real hams") to
enjoy, because such a bird will offer little opportunity for students.
>
> But of course, I am nobody special, and not even an AMSAT member (I'll
tell you why, if you want me to) so you can safely ignore my post.
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:10:49 +0300
From: "Zilvinas, LY2SS" <zilvinas@xxxxx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and
JOTA
Message-ID: <505AA559.6080106@xxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 2012.09.20 07:42, James Luhn wrote:
> Is there an easy way to predict when the various satellites and ISS
> will be passing overhead on October 20? It would be nice to know the
> times and locations for October 20 weeks ahead.
>
F.E. gpredict, "Sky at glance option"
p.s. software need a little tweaking for own taste, but it's great and
the price is right :-)
73 Zilvis
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:23:15 -0400
From: Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and
JOTA
Message-ID: <505AA843.50802@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 09/20/2012 12:42 AM, James Luhn wrote:
> I will be working with a Boy Scout troop on October 20 participating
> with JOTA (Jamboree On The Air). Is there an easy way to predict when
> the various satellites and ISS will be passing overhead on October 20?
> It would be nice to know the times and locations for October 20 weeks
> ahead.
Tracking software should be able to give you an 'ephemeris' table for
each pass for the day. For example, the software I use lists FOUR
passes on 20th October, for ISS. The best of these is 11:59:20 to
12:09:55 (nearly 13 minutes!). If I drill down on that pass, it lists
times, AZ/EL angles, range, doppler correction, etc, from AOS (314?/0?)
thru TCA (233?/40?) to LOS (157?/0?) in increments of 30-40 seconds. I
would expect any halfway decent tracking software should be able to give
the same sort of info.
So, tell us what software you want to use, ande maybe someone who uses
that particular software can tell you how to get the ephemeris info for
the particular date, QTH and satellite(s) you want.
But consider that "weeks ahead" means that you are using elements that
are weeks old! (Or, they will be, weeks from now when you need to use
the data.) So any ephemeris data generated "weeks ahead" should be
regenerated periodically as new elements become available, so your
ephemeris becomes more accurate the closer you get to the date of interest.
--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:10:37 -0500
From: wyattdirks <wyattdirks@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] AC0RA/m
Message-ID: <DUB403-EAS248B749E335DA1EC2C0CDCECD9A0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Soon I will be going near the grids of en23 and en33 and was wondering how
much interest there is in those grids??
Drop me an email if you need either of those so I know how much effort I
should put into from working those grids.
Thanks
Wyatt
AC0RA?
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:14:18 +0900
From: "Mineo Wakita" <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS_KIBO CubeSats Release Time
Message-ID: <61ED9EE2A5F8438F83A301B2EE4D492D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-2022-jp";
reply-type=original
The release time of ISS_KIBO CubeSats was set on as follows.
The afternoon of 27 Sep 2012,
First, 15:10-15:20 UTC: Order of WE-WISH, RAIKO by Astronaut Akihiko Hoshide
Second, 16:30-16:40 UTC: Order of TechEdSat, NanoRack/F-1, FITSAT-1 by JAXA GS
Satellite Downlink Beacon Mode
--------- ---------------- ------- -----
FITSAT-1 437.445, 5.84GHz 437.250 FM,CW
WE WISH 437.505 437.505 SSTV,CW
RAIKO 2.2GHz, 13GHz 13GHz 38.4 - 500kbps
TechEdSat 437.465 437.465 CW
F-1 145.980 437.485 1200bps AFSK,FM,CW
--------- ---------------- ------- ------------------
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hamradio/je9pel/htv3cube.htm
http://tinyurl.com/7x79o6p
http://kibo.jaxa.jp/en/about/kibo/rms/
http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?cat=98
http://www.uk.amsat.org/10119
JE9PEL, Mineo Wakita
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 06:00:54 -0500
From: "Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY]"
<kenneth.g.ransom@xxxx.xxx>
To: Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and
JOTA
Message-ID:
<CBB2346C58D9B14983E5AEFE4B345886011137565312@xxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Predicting ISS out that far is more challenging than the other satellites as
the ISS has frequent orbital maneuvers that most of the other amateur
satellites do not. The significant factor affecting the other static amateur
satellites is variations in orbital drag due to solar activity. ISS is much
more dynamic being controlled by reboosts and occasionally maneuvered to
avoid debris. Even the crew members moving around can cause subtle changes
in the orbit.
Best to use ISS predicts that far ahead as a ballpark estimate instead of a
pinpoint prediction.
Kenneth - N5VHO
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Gus 8P6SM
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:23 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA
On 09/20/2012 12:42 AM, James Luhn wrote:
> I will be working with a Boy Scout troop on October 20 participating
> with JOTA (Jamboree On The Air). Is there an easy way to predict when
> the various satellites and ISS will be passing overhead on October 20?
> It would be nice to know the times and locations for October 20 weeks
> ahead.
Tracking software should be able to give you an 'ephemeris' table for
each pass for the day. For example, the software I use lists FOUR
passes on 20th October, for ISS. The best of these is 11:59:20 to
12:09:55 (nearly 13 minutes!). If I drill down on that pass, it lists
times, AZ/EL angles, range, doppler correction, etc, from AOS (314?/0?)
thru TCA (233?/40?) to LOS (157?/0?) in increments of 30-40 seconds. I
would expect any halfway decent tracking software should be able to give
the same sort of info.
So, tell us what software you want to use, ande maybe someone who uses
that particular software can tell you how to get the ephemeris info for
the particular date, QTH and satellite(s) you want.
But consider that "weeks ahead" means that you are using elements that
are weeks old! (Or, they will be, weeks from now when you need to use
the data.) So any ephemeris data generated "weeks ahead" should be
regenerated periodically as new elements become available, so your
ephemeris becomes more accurate the closer you get to the date of interest.
--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 07:34:23 -0500
From: John <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
To: James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and
JOTA
Message-ID: <C04D8D90-7711-4236-908A-907BDF076F43@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
That's hard to do. ISS periodically reboosts and that changes the orbit. If
you use today's keps you could for example be off by several minutes or even
more. If you have NOVA or SatPC32 you can do an update the week before and
be close assuming no reboost.
John AG9D
Sent from my iPod
On Sep 19, 2012, at 11:42 PM, James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx> wrote:
> Everyone has been so terrific helping me understand every aspect of
Satellite communications. I have another question that may really show my
ignorance of this part of the hobby. Hopefully I will not be banned from
ever asking another dumb question.
>
> I will be working with a Boy Scout troop on October 20 participating with
JOTA (Jamboree On The Air). Is there an easy way to predict when the
various satellites and ISS will be passing overhead on October 20? It would
be nice to know the times and locations for October 20 weeks ahead.
>
> I wonder if others will be participating in JOTA by demonstrating the use
of satellites.
>
> Thanks and 73,
> -james
> W5AOO
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 13:57:17 +0100 (BST)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS_KIBO CubeSats Release Time
Message-ID:
<1348145837.41447.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I think live video of the deployment will available to watch on the web via
http://tinyurl.com/Hoshide-CubeSat-Deployment
but I could be misreading it.
The original Japanese is at
http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:29:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rsoifer@xxx.xxx
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Cc: ans-editor@xxxxx.xxxx k1sfa@xxxx.xxxx w3xo@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Bill Tynsn, W3XO, Wins 2012 Barry Goldwater Award
Message-ID: <12406.489c4cfe.3d8c8259@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The Radio Club of America announced this week that William A. Tynan, W3XO,
is the recipient of its 2012 Barry Goldwater Amateur Radio Award. The award
recognizes Bill's lifelong service to the public through amateur radio. It
will be presented at the club's annual awards banquet in New York on
November 16th. ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, like Bill a club Fellow, will
be the
keynote speaker.
Bill, one of AMSAT's charter members, is a past President and Chairman of
the Board. For many years, he conducted QST's monthly column, "The World
Above 50 MHz." He is also a past President of the Central States VHF Society.
Bill played a key role in the origination of amateur radio from the Space
Shuttle and the International Space Station.
The Radio Club of America, founded in 1909, is the world''s oldest radio
comunications association. For more information, see
www.radioclubofamerica.org.
Congratulations, Bill!
73 Ray W2RS
(Fellow, RCA)
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:41:17 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] back on
Message-ID:
<1394801880.59266.1348166477644.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxx
xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
to my many sat friends...Bob is finally back on satellites after a
ridiculous four months, over the top, make xyl happy, antenna/tower rebuild.
The details of which would take too long for this post. Finally got computer
controlling antennas/910. Frank (FEG) I just heard you on FO-29.
73 Bob W7LRD
Seattle
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 7, Issue 307
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