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CX2SA > SATDIG 20.09.12 06:04l 914 Lines 33469 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: 22% votes (Daniel Schultz)
2. Re: Information on Ballots (i8cvs)
3. computer help (Bob- W7LRD)
4. Re: 22% votes (John Spasojevich)
5. Re: 22% votes (John Becker)
6. Re: 22% votes (John Becker)
7. Re: 22% votes (John Spasojevich)
8. Re: 22% votes (John Spasojevich)
9. A little antenna advice needed (James Luhn)
10. Decoding Keps (David A. Rush)
11. Re: Decoding Keps (Thomas Doyle)
12. Re: A little antenna advice needed (Philip Jenkins)
13. Re: 22% votes (Gus 8P6SM)
14. Re: Decoding Keps (i8cvs)
15. Re: 22% votes (i8cvs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:46:22 -0400
From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@xxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID: <553qisTtw6368S03.1348083982@xxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Did all of the people who complain about AMSAT and the lack of this or
> that satellite or feature or they way they are built or when do we get
> another HEO or how someone failed once, did they all vote?
The complainers need to do more than vote, they need to run for office
themselves.
> All of the above. Most care less about the politics. Even fewer actually
> would give their time to make a difference. But there never is a shortage
> of complainers.
The US presidential election will be decided by about half of our eligible
voters. The rest of them are too busy watching American Idol to give a damn
about who runs the country for the next four years, or else they believe that
nothing will change no matter which side wins.
>The numbers are low, was there an option to vote on line? That may be
>something to look at for next year or something like it.
An excellent idea. Why don't you go ahead and make it so? You would need to
figure out how to verify that only paid-up members can vote. That is why the
paper ballots are mailed out to active members each year. While you are at it,
I would also like to have a password protected members-only section of the web
site where we could post the symposium materials that I have been collecting
and archiving over the past half dozen years. My web coding skills are not up
to the task but I would like to share these materials with the paid-up Amsat
members.
> > Seems to be true of anything anymore, only 10% of our homeowners
> > showed up for the annual meeting. 5% of those had complaints that
> > they only voice once a year at the annual meeting. I don't know if
> > that means I'm doing a great job as a board member, or nobody gives a
> hoot either way.
Try erecting an 80 foot radio tower in your backyard. That should increase
your homeowner's association turnout by a large amount!
73
Dan Schultz N8FGV
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 21:48:01 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
To: "Jim Wright" <wrightjrjr@xxxxxxx.xxx>, "Amsat - BBs"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Information on Ballots
Message-ID: <000001cd969f$fffdc500$0301a8c0@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Wright" <wrightjrjr@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:33 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Information on Ballots
> Perhaps I am not the only one this happend too, but...... The long lag
> in receipt and return deadline caused mine to get covered up and
> forgotten until too late. If the deadline were shorter, I would have
> voted and put it back in the return mail the next day.
>
> Jim WA4IVM
> Amsat 31517
>
> ps: Yes! I am happy as things are going!
>
>
Hi Jim, WA4IVM
You are AMSAT member numbar 31517.........OK ?
The ballots sent by Martha to all AMSAT members in USA and outside
USA was 3176..........OK ?
My question is: Why 31517 and more ballots where not sent to all
USA and ouside USA members ?
I guess that 31517 - 3176 = 28341 are AMSAT members paying
anymore their AMSAT membership and this is a very big numbar
meaning that AMSAT is loosing credibility all around the world !
Considering the 3176 ballots sent by Martha only 700 ballots
were sent back voting.......OK ?
I am AMSAT member numbar 798 but I will start again to pay my
annual membership and for all negative back years as soon AMSAT
will start again to work around a HEO satellite as promised to all
of as on paper.........PHASE III.....a satellite for all !
If you are happy as things are going I am not because when AO40
died I losted a lot of money invested in equipments and antennas for
nothing !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:53:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] computer help
Message-ID:
<1893156823.48576.1348084426828.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxx
xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
If there is anyone who could help me (re) set up my computer (xp) / IC-910H
/ LVB tracker, I need some assistance. Preferably by phone, send email...I
have been chasing this around for over a %$#$*&% day.
73
digitally challanged
Bob W7LRD
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:15:41 -0500
From: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Daniel Schultz <n8fgv@xxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID:
<CA+qbou5PniGq9cYrAXQg7ptFnxA4zcP_Jtstg4PiEjG_c_3HxA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I agree. But its easier to sit on your butt and point fingers. If you
actually do something you have to take responsibility for the failure not
just the success.
I wish the folks who long for the HEO's would solve two problems. Where the
money will come from to build it and where the money will come from to
launch it. Or who will provide a ride share deal and where the money will
come from for that.
I hear it all the time at hamfests about how amsat screwed up how amsat is
wrong how much money they lost etc etc etc and when asked how they will
help the usual answer is either nothing or they will help when the HEO
flies. Yeah right
John AG9D
On Sep 19, 2012 3:04 PM, "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> > Did all of the people who complain about AMSAT and the lack of this or
> > that satellite or feature or they way they are built or when do we get
> > another HEO or how someone failed once, did they all vote?
>
> The complainers need to do more than vote, they need to run for office
> themselves.
>
>
> > All of the above. Most care less about the politics. Even fewer actually
> > would give their time to make a difference. But there never is a shortage
> > of complainers.
>
> The US presidential election will be decided by about half of our eligible
> voters. The rest of them are too busy watching American Idol to give a damn
> about who runs the country for the next four years, or else they believe
> that
> nothing will change no matter which side wins.
>
>
> >The numbers are low, was there an option to vote on line? That may be
> >something to look at for next year or something like it.
>
> An excellent idea. Why don't you go ahead and make it so? You would need to
> figure out how to verify that only paid-up members can vote. That is why
> the
> paper ballots are mailed out to active members each year. While you are at
> it,
> I would also like to have a password protected members-only section of the
> web
> site where we could post the symposium materials that I have been
> collecting
> and archiving over the past half dozen years. My web coding skills are not
> up
> to the task but I would like to share these materials with the paid-up
> Amsat
> members.
>
>
> > > Seems to be true of anything anymore, only 10% of our homeowners
> > > showed up for the annual meeting. 5% of those had complaints that
> > > they only voice once a year at the annual meeting. I don't know if
> > > that means I'm doing a great job as a board member, or nobody gives a
> > hoot either way.
>
> Try erecting an 80 foot radio tower in your backyard. That should increase
> your homeowner's association turnout by a large amount!
>
> 73
>
> Dan Schultz N8FGV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:49:05 -0500
From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20120919154707.059b5e30@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I sent this direct first but was rejected because I'm not on his "approved"
list.
Ken
I really think that there are a large number like myself waiting to
see what is going to happen for a replacement for AO40.
From people that I have talked to with a license calls above tech
and more then a HT could care less about another FM bird.
John
At 03:47 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote:
>I disagree with the principle of prodding apathetic people to vote. If
somebody isn't willing to do the research, fill out a card, and mail it
back, then why should we go out of our way to get a vote they themselves
apparently don't care about. I'm more interested in the opinions of those
who are motivated enough to do this relatively simple task. I don't
understand the fixation with getting a higher percentage of the membership
to vote.
>
>73, Ken N2WWD
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:35:05 -0500
From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20120919163352.05ad3e18@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:23 PM 9/19/2012, you wrote:
>I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding the connection between the two.
not need to try to explain then.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:09:16 -0500
From: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
To: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID:
<CA+qbou5uhpDKZ1MZ-HrEszfPcC0F8xSZZXu25RcL7cyfFO7yiw@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The way I understand this age old train of thought and I get it a lot from
my local hams when I do a hamfest for AMSAT in my area is that, just like
in many ham clubs, there are a group of people who feel that they are "real
hams". Whether it's because they had to pass a harder test ( as in the old
advanced test was harder then the current extra ) of they had to pass a 20
WPM code test or they had to drive to the FCC and that people coming into
the hobby today are second class citizens, not good enough because the test
criteria changed. Same thing with AMSAT. Unless you work linear birds you
are not a "real" satellite operator. We can take that a step or two
farther. I'd say you are not a real satellite operator unless you use the
old Oscar Locator, figure your own pass predictions without the benefit of
a computer. We can make the argument of who is a better man all day long
and still end up with the same two groups on opposite sides of the room.
No doubt a HEO bird or geosync is idea, we've read it here a million times.
We've heard the "build it and they will come" comments a million times. No
one ever talks about the reality. Most of you guys who want HEO admit that
you don't support AMSAT in it's current mission. So I assume you don't go
to symposiums or have other routes to information. How much did AO40 cost
in it's day? That part I don't know. I recall a slide from the 2010
Symposium I think it was that showed the cost of a replacement AO-51 and it
was around $500K, the price IntelSat wanted just to place a transponder on
the open space of their bird and carry it to geosync was $1.2M. So how
long will it take all of you "build it and they will come" guys to pony up
that kind of money? Then there is a launch...visit www.batc.tv and watch
AMSAT-DL's 2012 symposium update. P3E is sitting almost ready to go, the
hardware is nearly 5 years old...there is no launch...no one can
realistically raise that much money. If you have noticed there is not
really that much development of new launchers so no opportunities to ride
as ballast like in the old days.
If you are going to push education, it's not real easy to sell someone like
NASA who has launchers available, that their interest in education is
served by launching an AO-40 replacement when it'll be full of "real hams"
and little opportunity for students. The road to reduced cost launches lies
with the education card and that is the path AMSAT-NA is on and until one
of the "real hams" wants to step up and head a drive to raise several
million dollars, I think you'll all be dead a buried before another AO-40
flies.
John - AG9D
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:49 PM, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I sent this direct first but was rejected because I'm not on his "approved"
> list.
>
>
> Ken
> I really think that there are a large number like myself waiting to
> see what is going to happen for a replacement for AO40.
>
> From people that I have talked to with a license calls above tech
> and more then a HT could care less about another FM bird.
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> At 03:47 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote:
> >I disagree with the principle of prodding apathetic people to vote. If
> somebody isn't willing to do the research, fill out a card, and mail it
> back, then why should we go out of our way to get a vote they themselves
> apparently don't care about. I'm more interested in the opinions of those
> who are motivated enough to do this relatively simple task. I don't
> understand the fixation with getting a higher percentage of the membership
> to vote.
> >
> >73, Ken N2WWD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:13:01 -0500
From: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
To: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID:
<CA+qbou4mwTPuNkQBjiN5g8aM21tCYw3--kXnPRDts3EN21Nnjg@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The reason for my thinking is simple. I was 10 when Gene Cernan walked on
the moon. In case you forgot, he was the LAST an to walk on the moon. I've
been waiting 38 years for it to happpen again. So rather then wait for P3E
or AO-40 part deux I would rather have something up there than nothing at
all.
John - AG9D
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:09 PM, John Spasojevich <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>wrote:
> The way I understand this age old train of thought and I get it a lot from
> my local hams when I do a hamfest for AMSAT in my area is that, just like
> in many ham clubs, there are a group of people who feel that they are "real
> hams". Whether it's because they had to pass a harder test ( as in the old
> advanced test was harder then the current extra ) of they had to pass a 20
> WPM code test or they had to drive to the FCC and that people coming into
> the hobby today are second class citizens, not good enough because the test
> criteria changed. Same thing with AMSAT. Unless you work linear birds you
> are not a "real" satellite operator. We can take that a step or two
> farther. I'd say you are not a real satellite operator unless you use the
> old Oscar Locator, figure your own pass predictions without the benefit of
> a computer. We can make the argument of who is a better man all day long
> and still end up with the same two groups on opposite sides of the room.
> No doubt a HEO bird or geosync is idea, we've read it here a million times.
> We've heard the "build it and they will come" comments a million times. No
> one ever talks about the reality. Most of you guys who want HEO admit that
> you don't support AMSAT in it's current mission. So I assume you don't go
> to symposiums or have other routes to information. How much did AO40 cost
> in it's day? That part I don't know. I recall a slide from the 2010
> Symposium I think it was that showed the cost of a replacement AO-51 and it
> was around $500K, the price IntelSat wanted just to place a transponder on
> the open space of their bird and carry it to geosync was $1.2M. So how
> long will it take all of you "build it and they will come" guys to pony up
> that kind of money? Then there is a launch...visit www.batc.tv and watch
> AMSAT-DL's 2012 symposium update. P3E is sitting almost ready to go, the
> hardware is nearly 5 years old...there is no launch...no one can
> realistically raise that much money. If you have noticed there is not
> really that much development of new launchers so no opportunities to ride
> as ballast like in the old days.
>
> If you are going to push education, it's not real easy to sell someone
> like NASA who has launchers available, that their interest in education is
> served by launching an AO-40 replacement when it'll be full of "real hams"
> and little opportunity for students. The road to reduced cost launches lies
> with the education card and that is the path AMSAT-NA is on and until one
> of the "real hams" wants to step up and head a drive to raise several
> million dollars, I think you'll all be dead a buried before another AO-40
> flies.
>
> John - AG9D
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:49 PM, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I sent this direct first but was rejected because I'm not on his
>> "approved"
>> list.
>>
>>
>> Ken
>> I really think that there are a large number like myself waiting to
>> see what is going to happen for a replacement for AO40.
>>
>> From people that I have talked to with a license calls above tech
>> and more then a HT could care less about another FM bird.
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 03:47 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote:
>> >I disagree with the principle of prodding apathetic people to vote. If
>> somebody isn't willing to do the research, fill out a card, and mail it
>> back, then why should we go out of our way to get a vote they themselves
>> apparently don't care about. I'm more interested in the opinions of those
>> who are motivated enough to do this relatively simple task. I don't
>> understand the fixation with getting a higher percentage of the membership
>> to vote.
>> >
>> >73, Ken N2WWD
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:54:33 -0500
From: James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] A little antenna advice needed
Message-ID: <505A4D29.9030005@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I need some antenna advice. I ended up with two Elk and two Arrow
beams. I thought about using two of the Elk antennas on a boom stacked
horizontally. Would this be worth the effort? I am a little unsure
about how far apart they would need to be to perhaps have some added
gain. Seems like I remember seeing a photo of someone with a couple of
the Elks mounted horizontally. I have a Cushcraft or a M2 coax divider
that could be used. Am I just farting in the breeze or would it be
worth the time to put the antennas together? BTW, I always put my
antenna on a tripod while working the satellites. I am not a very good
"one armed paper hanger".
Thanks & 73s
-james
W5AOO
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:19:37 -0400
From: "David A. Rush" <david@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Decoding Keps
Message-ID: <505A6119.2040601@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I've been working on some code to decode the two-line Keplerian data
like the ARRL sends out weekly (with a thank-you to AMSAT-NA).
A couple of the values are in a somewhat cryptic format, the "BSTAR" and
"second derivative of the mean motion". The strings tend to be either a
space or a + sign, five digits, usually a minus sign (but seen at least
once as a plus sign) and finally another digit, such as:
+00000-0
+11682-3
00000-0
30767-3
00000-0
00000+0
+00000-0
+89689-4
What I have found about this format is that it is "decimal assumed", and
examples suggest that +89689-4 = 0.89689 * 10 ^-4 or 0.000089689, if I
converted that correctly.
I'm guessing that the first character is the sign (+ or -) of the
number, where a space is assumed positive. I've only seen one example
of the 7th character being a plus (and all the digits were zero), so I
assume that + or - are valid values for the exponent. I guess the
format is fundamentally limited to an exponent between +9 and -9.
Am I interpreting it correctly? Any other insight?
David, ky7dr
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:14:02 -0500
From: Thomas Doyle <tomdoyle1948@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "David A. Rush" <david@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Decoding Keps
Message-ID:
<CAHnRQRJ9BaaAPRa7_kix_BBe2PBCcMEnexr_Yn1QtgxCWOS3+g@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
David,
Check this out.
http://celestrak.com/NORAD/documentation/tle-fmt.asp
73 W9KE Tom Doyle
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 7:19 PM, David A. Rush <david@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I've been working on some code to decode the two-line Keplerian data like
> the ARRL sends out weekly (with a thank-you to AMSAT-NA).
>
> A couple of the values are in a somewhat cryptic format, the "BSTAR" and
> "second derivative of the mean motion". The strings tend to be either a
> space or a + sign, five digits, usually a minus sign (but seen at least once
> as a plus sign) and finally another digit, such as:
>
> +00000-0
> +11682-3
> 00000-0
> 30767-3
> 00000-0
> 00000+0
> +00000-0
> +89689-4
>
> What I have found about this format is that it is "decimal assumed", and
> examples suggest that +89689-4 = 0.89689 * 10 ^-4 or 0.000089689, if I
> converted that correctly.
> I'm guessing that the first character is the sign (+ or -) of the number,
> where a space is assumed positive. I've only seen one example of the 7th
> character being a plus (and all the digits were zero), so I assume that + or
> - are valid values for the exponent. I guess the format is fundamentally
> limited to an exponent between +9 and -9.
>
> Am I interpreting it correctly? Any other insight?
>
> David, ky7dr
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
--
Sent from my computer.
tom ...
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:14:56 -0400
From: Philip Jenkins <philipjjenkins@xxxxx.xxx>
To: James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: A little antenna advice needed
Message-ID:
<CAJvoBMns4y8sa5+pWTXj4Lk0dnMJTX8SZHcEL3YQ_W3Cdjj=vQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Here's a website which I was referred to when I had questions about
stacking identical yagis horizontally and vertically, and vertically
stacking antennas for separate bands. It's a start....hope you can some
useful info from it.
http://www.directivesystems.com/STACKING.htm
Philip N4HF
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:54 PM, James Luhn <luhn@xx.xxx> wrote:
> I need some antenna advice. I ended up with two Elk and two Arrow beams.
> I thought about using two of the Elk antennas on a boom stacked
> horizontally. Would this be worth the effort? I am a little unsure about
> how far apart they would need to be to perhaps have some added gain. Seems
> like I remember seeing a photo of someone with a couple of the Elks mounted
> horizontally. I have a Cushcraft or a M2 coax divider that could be used.
> Am I just farting in the breeze or would it be worth the time to put the
> antennas together? BTW, I always put my antenna on a tripod while working
> the satellites. I am not a very good "one armed paper hanger".
>
> Thanks & 73s
> -james
> W5AOO
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:30:50 -0400
From: Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID: <505A8DEA.1070508@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 09/19/2012 06:09 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:
> If you are going to push education, it's not real easy to sell someone like
> NASA who has launchers available, that their interest in education is
> served by launching an AO-40 replacement when it'll be full of "real hams"
> and little opportunity for students. The road to reduced cost launches lies
> with the education card and that is the path AMSAT-NA is on and until one
> of the "real hams" wants to step up and head a drive to raise several
> million dollars, I think you'll all be dead a buried before another AO-40
> flies.
I fear you are correct. About the likelihood of another HEO launch.
But I disagree about the rest.
The education card may gain us cheaper launches, but why are we
bothering? A recent post here mentioned a five-satellite CubeSat
launch, concluding that "Four of the CubeSats carry Amateur Radio
payloads..." Excuse me?
F-1 transmits on 145.980 MHz and 437.485 MHz which are both ham
frequencies. But hams can't use this bird, because unless you want to
look at earth images (and live in the vicinity of the ground-station) or
you are interested in the spacecraft's obscure telemetry, there is
nothing for you here. And if you ARE interested, you don't have to be a
ham radio operator to "use" the satellite. All you need is the
appropriate receiver and no license.
FITSAT-1 transmits on 437.250 MHz, 437.445 MHz and 5.840 GHz. Again,
all ham frequencies, and again, useable by ANYONE, with or without a ham
license, because all you need is a receiver (seeing as all you can do is
listen to some more obscure telemetry). The Hi-Brite LEDs writing CW in
the sky is really neet... but you won't see it unless you live near the
ground-station.... which I don't
WE-WISH (apparently) downlinks on ham frequency 437.505 MHz. It seems
to have a thermal imager on it, and presumably lots more obscure
telemetry. Once again, non-hams can use this as easily as hams because
it only requires you have a receiver, no interaction being possible.
TechEdSat will allow you (and any non-ham with a receiver) to listen to
the obscure telemetry (hereinafter "ObsTel") on ham frequency 437.465
MHz. Why you would want to, I can't imagine.
So. Is this the sort of "Amateur Radio Payload" that we should hope
for, if we continue to play the education card? Personally, I can't see
why we should bother. Judging by these satellites, the phrase "carries
an amateur radio payload" really means "usurps amateur radio frequencies
for non-amateur use for telemetry and telecommand on non-amateur
satellites".
Let me make it plain. I have no objection to (and indeed, I support)
satellites being launched for educational reasons. I suppose that I
really don't even object to the HamSat frequencies being used for
non-ham purposes, seeing as WE aren't using those frequencies for
anything much. But what are we gaining from playing this education
card? The hope that occasionally, we can arrange the launch of some
short lifespan, low range, fast pass, single channel FM bird that I get
to shout callsign and gridsquare at for 6-8 minutes at a time, on a good
day?
You know, I don't have 10M to spare, to pay for a HEO launch. If I did,
I would. I might scrape together 10K to donate. But honestly now, why
should I? Apparently there will never be another AO-13 for me (and
"real hams") to enjoy, because such a bird will offer little opportunity
for students.
But of course, I am nobody special, and not even an AMSAT member (I'll
tell you why, if you want me to) so you can safely ignore my post.
--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:45:51 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
To: "David A. Rush" <david@xxxxxxxx.xxx>, "Amsat - BBs"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Decoding Keps
Message-ID: <000001cd96e2$b81a0260$0301a8c0@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi David, KY7DR
I suggest you to compare the 2 line NASA orbital data with the AMSAT
Keplerian elements for the same day and you will get the answere to your
questions.
Example for OSCAR-7
DECODE 2-LINE ELSETS WITH THE FOLLOWING KEY:
1 AAAAAU 00 0 0 BBBBB.BBBBBBBB .CCCCCCCC 00000-0 00000-0 0 DDDZ
2 AAAAA EEE.EEEE FFF.FFFF GGGGGGG HHH.HHHH III.IIII JJ.JJJJJJJJKKKKKZ
KEY: A-CATALOGNUM B-EPOCHTIME C-DECAY D-ELSETNUM E-INCLINATION F-RAAN
G-ECCENTRICITY H-ARGPERIGEE I-MNANOM J-MNMOTION K-ORBITNUM Z-CHECKSUM
Two line NASA orbital data for orbit KKKKK or i.e. numbar 73100
AO-07
1 07530U 74089B 12256.61218065 -.00000027 00000-0 10000-3 0 4795
2 07530 101.4099 250.4681 0012001 109.6272 250.6089 12.53591141731001
AMSAT orbital data for the same Epoch revolution i. e. the same orbit numbar
73100
Satellite: AO-07
Catalog number: 07530
Epoch time: 12256.61218065
Element set: 479
Inclination: 101.4099 deg
RA of node: 250.4681 deg
Eccentricity: 0.0012001
Arg of perigee: 109.6272 deg
Mean anomaly: 250.6089 deg
Mean motion: 12.53591141 rev/day
Decay rate: -2.7e-07 rev/day^2
Epoch rev: 73100
Checksum: 262
About your calculation:
If the sign is plus like in +89689-4 your following calculation is correct:
+89689-4 = 0.89689 * 10 ^-4 or 0.000089689
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Rush" <david@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 2:19 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Decoding Keps
> I've been working on some code to decode the two-line Keplerian data
> like the ARRL sends out weekly (with a thank-you to AMSAT-NA).
>
> A couple of the values are in a somewhat cryptic format, the "BSTAR" and
> "second derivative of the mean motion". The strings tend to be either a
> space or a + sign, five digits, usually a minus sign (but seen at least
> once as a plus sign) and finally another digit, such as:
>
> +00000-0
> +11682-3
> 00000-0
> 30767-3
> 00000-0
> 00000+0
> +00000-0
> +89689-4
>
> What I have found about this format is that it is "decimal assumed", and
> examples suggest that +89689-4 = 0.89689 * 10 ^-4 or 0.000089689, if I
> converted that correctly.
> I'm guessing that the first character is the sign (+ or -) of the
> number, where a space is assumed positive. I've only seen one example
> of the 7th character being a plus (and all the digits were zero), so I
> assume that + or - are valid values for the exponent. I guess the
> format is fundamentally limited to an exponent between +9 and -9.
>
> Am I interpreting it correctly? Any other insight?
>
> David, ky7dr
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:58:42 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
To: "Gus 8P6SM" <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>, "Amsat - BBs" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Message-ID: <001a01cd96e4$39ca94e0$0301a8c0@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus 8P6SM" <8p6sm@xxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:30 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
> Judging by these satellites, the phrase "carries
> an amateur radio payload" really means "usurps amateur radio frequencies
> for non-amateur use for telemetry and telecommand on non-amateur
> satellites".
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
Hi Gus, 8P6SM
Well said ! I agree completely with you
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 7, Issue 306
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