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CX2SA > SATDIG 05.09.12 17:23l 815 Lines 32497 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. AO 40 replacement status (John Becker)
2. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich)
3. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Kevin Muenzler)
4. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (John Becker)
5. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Greg Dolkas)
6. CubeSat Microthrusters in Sat Magazine (Trevor .)
7. looking for documentation for ISS-school contact (Werner, HB9BNK)
8. Re: looking for documentation for ISS-school contact
(Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY])
9. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Kevin Muenzler)
10. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Kevin Muenzler)
11. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (John P. Toscano)
12. Re: AO 40 replacement status (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
13. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Trevor .)
14. Re: AO40 replacement !!! (Kevin Muenzler)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:38:07 -0500
From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO 40 replacement status
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20120904163444.01b56110@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OK I have got to ask what is the status?
Seems to be the best kept secret.
John, W0JAB
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:21:09 -0400
From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" <coro@xxxx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <50467ED5.8020300@xxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Just read a posting about a possible replacement for the ill fated super
sophisticated over-engineered ultra complex AO40 satellite.
My perception is that any attempt to create a New Generation Molnya
Orbit Satellite
must undergo a very serious and comprehensive engineering research , in
order
to keep it within an area of simplicity that will make possible a much
higher
degree of reliability.
No, it is not a call for an ultra simple parrot satellite, or a medium
level of sophistication...
what I am proposing is to achieve a consensus on how to keep the new
satellite
within engineering performance parameters that will help to keep costs
down,
increase the MTBF ( Mean Time Between Failures ) of its equipment, and
also to
achieve a high degree of operational control so that it can be kept working
for a long time.
In the meantime, until an AO40 Molnya satellite may be designed and
funds can
be found to build it and then obtain a piggy back ride on a launch... it
would
be nice to try to assemble one or more satellites that could follow the very
effective and practical designs of the RS10, RS12 and RS 15...
If such satellites are built they will certainly be most welcome at a
worldwide
scale, especially now that heliophysicists ( i.e. solar scientists ) are
almost sure
that the present solar cycle and the one following are going to bring
monthly
sunspot averages not seen in more than a century !!!
Maybe this posting could start a very productive thread on the AMSAT.BB
amigos !!!
It would be nice to hear opinions and points of view from all around the
world
on this topic
73 and DX
Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich ( AKA Arnie Coro )
Emergency Coordinator IARU Region II Area C
Host of Dxers Unlimited radio hobby program
Radio Havana Cuba
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 17:40:16 -0500
From: "Kevin Muenzler" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <001a01cd8aee$41d833b0$c5889b10$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In my opinion (it's worth every penny you just paid for it) if they are
going to create a new super sophisticated "Phase III Part Deux" it should
perhaps be taken to the ISS in pieces, assembled there and blown into a
long-period orbit. But then that's just my opinion. If I remember
correctly AO-40 was damaged by a collision with the launch vehicle shortly
after separation. Of course a new generation of easy-sats that can be
worked using a J-pole setup would be nice too.
Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE
Grid EL09uf
Eagle Creek Observatory
http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org
I can melt ice with my mind, it just takes a few minutes.
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:21 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Just read a posting about a possible replacement for the ill fated super
sophisticated over-engineered ultra complex AO40 satellite.
My perception is that any attempt to create a New Generation Molnya Orbit
Satellite must undergo a very serious and comprehensive engineering research
, in order to keep it within an area of simplicity that will make possible a
much higher degree of reliability.
No, it is not a call for an ultra simple parrot satellite, or a medium level
of sophistication...
what I am proposing is to achieve a consensus on how to keep the new
satellite within engineering performance parameters that will help to keep
costs down, increase the MTBF ( Mean Time Between Failures ) of its
equipment, and also to achieve a high degree of operational control so that
it can be kept working for a long time.
In the meantime, until an AO40 Molnya satellite may be designed and funds
can be found to build it and then obtain a piggy back ride on a launch... it
would be nice to try to assemble one or more satellites that could follow
the very effective and practical designs of the RS10, RS12 and RS 15...
If such satellites are built they will certainly be most welcome at a
worldwide scale, especially now that heliophysicists ( i.e. solar scientists
) are almost sure that the present solar cycle and the one following are
going to bring monthly sunspot averages not seen in more than a century !!!
Maybe this posting could start a very productive thread on the AMSAT.BB
amigos !!!
It would be nice to hear opinions and points of view from all around the
world on this topic
73 and DX
Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich ( AKA Arnie Coro ) Emergency Coordinator IARU
Region II Area C Host of Dxers Unlimited radio hobby program Radio Havana
Cuba _______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:21:42 -0500
From: John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20120904181955.01b7db50@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:40 PM 9/4/2012, you wrote:
>In my opinion (it's worth every penny you just paid for it) if they are
>going to create a new super sophisticated "Phase III Part Deux" it should
>perhaps be taken to the ISS in pieces, assembled there and blown into a
>long-period orbit. But then that's just my opinion.
Right you are.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:27:06 -0700
From: Greg Dolkas <ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Kevin Muenzler <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID:
<CAHrzzAo30MzF-MgbrJ7fvTQV0gF_pDE-gPPTokbYp+8qHOUDXA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Kevin,
Two comments...
1. I belive it was AO-10 that was damaged by a collision with the launch
vehicle. AO-40 had a problem with it's on-board rocket motor, which
exploded shortly after it's first burn, taking a good bit of the satellite
with it. Only through an extraordinary effort by the command team did they
get what was left working again. Amazing bird (and amazing command team!).
2. ISS assembly is an interesting idea, but I have a really hard time
believing you'd get anything resembling a rocket motor to be shipped up to
the ISS. That would comdemn the bird to be in a low and short-lived
orbit. Unless they could convince the Russians to turn the Progress around
and fire the retro engines the other way to RAISE it's orbit instead of
trashing it into the planet? Bolt our sat to the side. Sort of a SuitSat
on steroids? Wonder how high it could go?
But, keep the ideas coming.
Greg KO6TH
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Kevin Muenzler <
kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> In my opinion (it's worth every penny you just paid for it) if they are
> going to create a new super sophisticated "Phase III Part Deux" it should
> perhaps be taken to the ISS in pieces, assembled there and blown into a
> long-period orbit. But then that's just my opinion. If I remember
> correctly AO-40 was damaged by a collision with the launch vehicle shortly
> after separation. Of course a new generation of easy-sats that can be
> worked using a J-pole setup would be nice too.
>
> Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE
> Grid EL09uf
> Eagle Creek Observatory
> http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org
> I can melt ice with my mind, it just takes a few minutes.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
> Behalf Of Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:21 PM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
>
> Just read a posting about a possible replacement for the ill fated super
> sophisticated over-engineered ultra complex AO40 satellite.
> My perception is that any attempt to create a New Generation Molnya Orbit
> Satellite must undergo a very serious and comprehensive engineering
> research
> , in order to keep it within an area of simplicity that will make possible
> a
> much higher degree of reliability.
> No, it is not a call for an ultra simple parrot satellite, or a medium
> level
> of sophistication...
> what I am proposing is to achieve a consensus on how to keep the new
> satellite within engineering performance parameters that will help to keep
> costs down, increase the MTBF ( Mean Time Between Failures ) of its
> equipment, and also to achieve a high degree of operational control so that
> it can be kept working for a long time.
> In the meantime, until an AO40 Molnya satellite may be designed and funds
> can be found to build it and then obtain a piggy back ride on a launch...
> it
> would be nice to try to assemble one or more satellites that could follow
> the very effective and practical designs of the RS10, RS12 and RS 15...
> If such satellites are built they will certainly be most welcome at a
> worldwide scale, especially now that heliophysicists ( i.e. solar
> scientists
> ) are almost sure that the present solar cycle and the one following are
> going to bring monthly sunspot averages not seen in more than a century !!!
> Maybe this posting could start a very productive thread on the AMSAT.BB
> amigos !!!
> It would be nice to hear opinions and points of view from all around the
> world on this topic
> 73 and DX
> Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich ( AKA Arnie Coro ) Emergency Coordinator IARU
> Region II Area C Host of Dxers Unlimited radio hobby program Radio Havana
> Cuba _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:25:09 +0100 (BST)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] CubeSat Microthrusters in Sat Magazine
Message-ID:
<1346837109.61375.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The September issue of the free publication Sat Magazine features an article
on CubeSat Microthrusters - page 38
MIT Developed ?Microthrusters? Could Empower Small Sats
http://www.satmagazine.com/2012/SM_Sept2012.pdf
73 Trevor M5AKA
The AMSAT-UK Colloquium takes place Sept. 15-16 in Guildford, England.
Representatives from AMSAT-DL, AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-SA will be giving
presentations. See http://www.uk.amsat.org/colloquium/twelve
----
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 13:21:47 +0200
From: "Werner, HB9BNK" <hb9bnk@xxxx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] looking for documentation for ISS-school contact
Message-ID: <504735CB.5060404@xxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
I am preparing an presentation for school contact EU#280, which
will take place in November at a school in Basel, Switzerland.
A few years ago, I saw a movie, which shows the development of the
ISS since the first days. It consists of drawings only - not
pictures - and shows the progress of the space station in several
steps - it is very informative and would make a good topic in my
presentation.
Can somebody understand my description and point me to the source ?
Thanks !
Werner, HB9BNK
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 07:49:43 -0500
From: "Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY]"
<kenneth.g.ransom@xxxx.xxx>
To: "Werner, HB9BNK" <hb9bnk@xxxx.xx>, "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: looking for documentation for ISS-school
contact
Message-ID:
<CBB2346C58D9B14983E5AEFE4B34588601113642A5FD@xxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Was it an animated assembly series like this one?
http://i.usatoday.net/tech/graphics/iss_timeline/flash.htm
________________________________________
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On Behalf Of
Werner, HB9BNK [hb9bnk@xxxx.xxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:21 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] looking for documentation for ISS-school contact
I am preparing an presentation for school contact EU#280, which
will take place in November at a school in Basel, Switzerland.
A few years ago, I saw a movie, which shows the development of the
ISS since the first days. It consists of drawings only - not
pictures - and shows the progress of the space station in several
steps - it is very informative and would make a good topic in my
presentation.
Can somebody understand my description and point me to the source ?
Thanks !
Werner, HB9BNK
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 08:56:35 -0500
From: "Kevin Muenzler" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "'Amsat BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <000f01cd8b6e$438e6000$caab2000$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
That would explain an explosion. Those things don't just "burn off."
From: R Oler [mailto:orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxxx
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:35 PM
To: kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx Amsat BB
Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Kevin. AO-40 was damaged not by a collision with the launch vehicle...but
by the ground crew leaving a "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" tag and plug in the
propulstion system and the engine not working well in that config. WB5MZO
Robert
> From: kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 17:40:16 -0500
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
>
> In my opinion (it's worth every penny you just paid for it) if they are
> going to create a new super sophisticated "Phase III Part Deux" it should
> perhaps be taken to the ISS in pieces, assembled there and blown into a
> long-period orbit. But then that's just my opinion. If I remember
> correctly AO-40 was damaged by a collision with the launch vehicle shortly
> after separation. Of course a new generation of easy-sats that can be
> worked using a J-pole setup would be nice too.
>
> Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE
> Grid EL09uf
> Eagle Creek Observatory
> http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org
> I can melt ice with my mind, it just takes a few minutes.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
> Behalf Of Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:21 PM
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
>
> Just read a posting about a possible replacement for the ill fated super
> sophisticated over-engineered ultra complex AO40 satellite.
> My perception is that any attempt to create a New Generation Molnya Orbit
> Satellite must undergo a very serious and comprehensive engineering
research
> , in order to keep it within an area of simplicity that will make possible
a
> much higher degree of reliability.
> No, it is not a call for an ultra simple parrot satellite, or a medium
level
> of sophistication...
> what I am proposing is to achieve a consensus on how to keep the new
> satellite within engineering performance parameters that will help to keep
> costs down, increase the MTBF ( Mean Time Between Failures ) of its
> equipment, and also to achieve a high degree of operational control so
that
> it can be kept working for a long time.
> In the meantime, until an AO40 Molnya satellite may be designed and funds
> can be found to build it and then obtain a piggy back ride on a launch...
it
> would be nice to try to assemble one or more satellites that could follow
> the very effective and practical designs of the RS10, RS12 and RS 15...
> If such satellites are built they will certainly be most welcome at a
> worldwide scale, especially now that heliophysicists ( i.e. solar
scientists
> ) are almost sure that the present solar cycle and the one following are
> going to bring monthly sunspot averages not seen in more than a century
!!!
> Maybe this posting could start a very productive thread on the AMSAT.BB
> amigos !!!
> It would be nice to hear opinions and points of view from all around the
> world on this topic
> 73 and DX
> Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich ( AKA Arnie Coro ) Emergency Coordinator IARU
> Region II Area C Host of Dxers Unlimited radio hobby program Radio Havana
> Cuba _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 08:57:56 -0500
From: "Kevin Muenzler" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <001401cd8b6e$73ca17a0$5b5e46e0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You are right here, it was AO-10 that was damaged by the collision. I
didn't remember that AO-40 had an engine issue but that explains quite a
bit. It would be difficult to get some sort of rocket aboard the ISS now
that the space shuttle missions are finished but it's just an idea. Maybe
when the next generation of "Space Shuttles" come on line (yeah, right)
we'll have that opportunity again.
Kevin
From: Greg Dolkas [mailto:ko6th.greg@xxxxx.xxxx
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:27 PM
To: Kevin Muenzler
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Hi Kevin,
Two comments...
1. I belive it was AO-10 that was damaged by a collision with the launch
vehicle. AO-40 had a problem with it's on-board rocket motor, which
exploded shortly after it's first burn, taking a good bit of the satellite
with it. Only through an extraordinary effort by the command team did they
get what was left working again. Amazing bird (and amazing command team!).
2. ISS assembly is an interesting idea, but I have a really hard time
believing you'd get anything resembling a rocket motor to be shipped up to
the ISS. That would comdemn the bird to be in a low and short-lived orbit.
Unless they could convince the Russians to turn the Progress around and fire
the retro engines the other way to RAISE it's orbit instead of trashing it
into the planet? Bolt our sat to the side. Sort of a SuitSat on steroids?
Wonder how high it could go?
But, keep the ideas coming.
Greg KO6TH
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Kevin Muenzler
<kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
In my opinion (it's worth every penny you just paid for it) if they are
going to create a new super sophisticated "Phase III Part Deux" it should
perhaps be taken to the ISS in pieces, assembled there and blown into a
long-period orbit. But then that's just my opinion. If I remember
correctly AO-40 was damaged by a collision with the launch vehicle shortly
after separation. Of course a new generation of easy-sats that can be
worked using a J-pole setup would be nice too.
Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE
Grid EL09uf
Eagle Creek Observatory
http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org
I can melt ice with my mind, it just takes a few minutes.
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:21 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Just read a posting about a possible replacement for the ill fated super
sophisticated over-engineered ultra complex AO40 satellite.
My perception is that any attempt to create a New Generation Molnya Orbit
Satellite must undergo a very serious and comprehensive engineering research
, in order to keep it within an area of simplicity that will make possible a
much higher degree of reliability.
No, it is not a call for an ultra simple parrot satellite, or a medium level
of sophistication...
what I am proposing is to achieve a consensus on how to keep the new
satellite within engineering performance parameters that will help to keep
costs down, increase the MTBF ( Mean Time Between Failures ) of its
equipment, and also to achieve a high degree of operational control so that
it can be kept working for a long time.
In the meantime, until an AO40 Molnya satellite may be designed and funds
can be found to build it and then obtain a piggy back ride on a launch... it
would be nice to try to assemble one or more satellites that could follow
the very effective and practical designs of the RS10, RS12 and RS 15...
If such satellites are built they will certainly be most welcome at a
worldwide scale, especially now that heliophysicists ( i.e. solar scientists
) are almost sure that the present solar cycle and the one following are
going to bring monthly sunspot averages not seen in more than a century !!!
Maybe this posting could start a very productive thread on the AMSAT.BB
amigos !!!
It would be nice to hear opinions and points of view from all around the
world on this topic
73 and DX
Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich ( AKA Arnie Coro ) Emergency Coordinator IARU
Region II Area C Host of Dxers Unlimited radio hobby program Radio Havana
Cuba _______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 10:06:56 -0500
From: "John P. Toscano" <tosca005@xx.xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <50476A90.8080403@xx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 9/5/2012 8:57 AM, Kevin Muenzler wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Kevin Muenzler
> <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> In my opinion (it's worth every penny you just paid for it) if they are
> going to create a new super sophisticated "Phase III Part Deux" it should
> perhaps be taken to the ISS in pieces, assembled there and blown into a
> long-period orbit. But then that's just my opinion. If I remember
> correctly AO-40 was damaged by a collision with the launch vehicle shortly
> after separation. Of course a new generation of easy-sats that can be
> worked using a J-pole setup would be nice too.
Keep in mind that astronaut time is a very precious commodity,
particularly astronaut EVA time. I seriously doubt you'd ever get buy-in
by the authorities to have the astronauts devote any of their precious
EVA time to assembling an amateur satellite in orbit. Furthermore, I'm
not sure of the benefit of on-orbit assembly, unless you believed that
you could break down the satellite into such small pieces that they
could go along for a "free ride" whenever astronauts or cargo were being
sent up. Even AO-40 would have fit into the cargo bay of the (now,
sadly, grounded) shuttles, although its nitrogen tetroxide oxidizer and
monomethylhydrazine fuel would never have allowed it to fly on a manned
shuttle.
Granted, it is easier to get a ride for a 1U cubesat than another AO-40,
and the best way to get a ride to orbit is to make the hardware as small
and light as possible. But other than shrinking the bird, I don't think
that it's so much a problem of re-engineering a whole new satellite
design. The design of AO-40 was incredibly good. The design failure was
in the step-by-step commissioning process that left a fuel port cap in
place prior to launch which then led to the explosion that crippled the
bird. People bemoan how "over-engineered" and how "excessively complex"
AO-40 was, but it was precisely that complexity and over-engineering
that allowed us to get any use out of the bird after the explosion.
Getting a ride to a satisfactory orbit is far and away the biggest obstacle.
Now I'll get onto my soapbox for a few moments. I do not understand why
we keep pouring our limited resources into single-channel FM satellites.
Even a cubesat is capable of carrying a linear transponder, and even if
it is put into a LEO, it has to be more useful than an FM transponder in
the same orbit. Since the big issue is getting a ride to orbit, why not
send up the most capable satellite that we can within the constraints of
the allowable package size and weight? I mean, in the worst case, if we
launched a linear transponder and "everyone" complained that it was too
hard to work it, it could still be operated as a single-channel FM
transponder if you allowed people to transmit in FM, much as it would
break my heart to allow it. You would not have lost anything by sending
up the linear transponder. Make every launch count for as much as
possible. Getting off my soapbox now.
My thanks go out to all the folks working behind the scenes to try their
darndest to get us new launch opportunities and to get new flight
hardware built and ready to go in case a launch opportunity is found.
The AMSAT BOD and staff and volunteers put a remarkable amount of effort
into this stuff, and seldom get the acknowledgement that they deserve,
since major breakthroughs like the launch of an AO-40 are prevented by
forces outside of their control. Which just means that they are working
all the harder, *NOT* that they are slackers.
And don't get me wrong, I think that cubesats are a good thing,
particularly if they are truly educational (teach us how to build
better, smaller satellites), and especially if they are able to someday
solve the problem of sufficiently safe and effective on-board propulsion
to achieve higher orbits. But please, try and put the best possible RF
hardware on them when they go up! (Sorry for the short jump back onto
the soapbox there!)
73 de W0JT
AMSAT-NA Life Member
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 10:25:44 -0600
From: "Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL" <vlfiscus@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO 40 replacement status
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20120905101805.00bf2138@xxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 04:38 PM 9/4/2012 -0500, John Becker <w0jab@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>OK I have got to ask what is the status?
>Seems to be the best kept secret.
>
>
>
>John, W0JAB
I've given a lot of thought to this over the years, and I would be
a lot more active if we had a new HEO up there, and I also think it
would boost Amsat memberships worldwide.
BUT...
To have a new HEO is going to take a worldwide effort, just like it
was with all the past HEO's. No one single Amsat organization has
the resources to do it on its own, and we're not going to be able to
work internationally again on a new HEO until something is done about
ITAR.
KB7ADL
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 16:48:14 +0100 (BST)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Kevin Muenzler
<kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID:
<1346860094.18176.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Kevin Muenzler <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> It would be difficult to get some sort of rocket aboard the ISS now
> that the space shuttle missions are finished
I doubt it was ever feasible, if I understand it correctly there are even
issues with shipping rechargable batteries up there let alone a rocket.
Also with regards to ISS bear in mind buying astronauts time to do anything
would cost a fortune. They are employed by their respective organizations to
work up there.
Getting CubeSat's to MEO or HEO will depend on developing propulsion,
fold-out solar panels, and even CubeSat directional antennas - I wonder
could a 2m 2 ele Yagi be incorporated into a 3U CubeSat ?
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:15:35 -0500
From: "Kevin Muenzler" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
Message-ID: <003101cd8b81$ae8e3610$0baaa230$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I can understand that!
What I meant was that it could be launched as so many have been launched --
from the shuttle cargo bay. But, no more shuttles...Mr. Obama gave them all
away. :(
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor . [mailto:m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:48 AM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Kevin Muenzler
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AO40 replacement !!!
--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Kevin Muenzler <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> It would be difficult to get some sort of rocket aboard the ISS now
> that the space shuttle missions are finished
I doubt it was ever feasible, if I understand it correctly there are even
issues with shipping rechargable batteries up there let alone a rocket.
Also with regards to ISS bear in mind buying astronauts time to do anything
would cost a fortune. They are employed by their respective organizations to
work up there.
Getting CubeSat's to MEO or HEO will depend on developing propulsion,
fold-out solar panels, and even CubeSat directional antennas - I wonder
could a 2m 2 ele Yagi be incorporated into a 3U CubeSat ?
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 7, Issue 285
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