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CX2SA > SATDIG 06.01.12 22:05l 506 Lines 17404 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 120106/2002Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SA #:46241 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB714
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (i8cvs)
2. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (Bob Bruninga)
3. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (K5OE)
4. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (Alan P. Biddle)
5. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (Eric Knaps, ON4HF)
6. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (Bill Acito W1PA)
7. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (John Geiger)
8. Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! (Clayton Coleman W5PFG)
9. ARISSat-1 Die Hards (John Spasojevich)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:56:38 +0100
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
To: "Clayton Coleman W5PFG" <kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>, "AMSAT"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <000001cccc72$e7e3b620$0401a8c0@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi Clayton, W5PFG
You have reinvented the wheel ! Since 1972 i.e. 40 years ago
beginning with OSCAR-6 all of us we were using full-duplex
capability because in the last century to call a CW or SSB
CQ without hearin your self and than try to receice for a
possible answere from someone it was considered a crazy
procedure.
Full-duplex CW and SSB continued from OSCAR-6 to all
linear satellites up to AO40 but unfortunately it stopped
beginning with the FM single channel satellites.
If you actually suggest to enhance the easy FM sat experience
using full-duplex probably the answere will be that it is too
complicated and too costly.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clayton Coleman W5PFG" <kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "AMSAT" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:42 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability?
I realize that many amateurs jump into the satellite fray by utilizing
an existing handheld radio and an antenna like the Arrow, Elk, or
tape-measure beam. It's a great way to get your feet wet and make
that "first" contact via the birds.
Now, let's look at how we can do BETTER.
Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. It
allows you, the ground station, to know that your signal is being
received and retransmitted by the satellite. I?m not saying it is a
mandatory but once you see its benefit, you may never want to go
?semi? again.
How do you really know you are being heard by the bird if you can't
hear yourself? Answer: You don't.
How do you know another station wasn't already being captured by the
bird and in the middle of a QSO when you transmit? Answer: You don't.
Let's talk about HOW to do full-duplex. First of all, you don't need
base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or
Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you
need!
What you need is at least one radio capable of transmitting on the
uplink and one radio capable of receiving on the downlink. For
example using AO-27:
1. A 2m-only HT, set to the satellite's uplink, ~145.85 MHz.
2. A 70cm-only HT, set to the satellite's downlink, ~436.795 MHz.
One added benefit is that while hearing the downlink, you can twist
your handheld
antennas (like the Arrow) to match polarity and peak your uplink.
Technically you do not even need a radio capable of transmitting to
hear yourself on the downlink. A scanner or pocket receiver works
dandy!
To get into full-duplex inexpensively, there are numerous options.
You can buy a NEW Baeofeng UV-3R for about $50-60 USD, shipped. This
radio could serve as an uplink or downlink radio, depending on your
need. I?m not peddling these radios but using them as an example.
If you have the Arrow with the built-in diplexer, simply bypass it by
running a patch cord from each radio to the respective UHF and VHF
beams. If you are running an Elk or tape-measure 2m beam, you will
need an inexpensive diplexer to give you both 2m and 70cm feed points.
One can be constructed easily or purchased from numerous vendors for
$30-80.
Give full-duplex a try. You will not only help the satellite
community by eliminating unnecessary hetero-dyning tug-of-war, it will
generally make you sound better on the birds! Oh, and use a pair of
earphones or a headset when you give it a try to avoid feedback.
73,
Clayton
W5PFG
Here are some more example full-duplex combinations:
Wouxon HT - Downlink
2m only-HT - Uplink
FT-60R - Uplink
Baofeng - Downlink
Handheld scanner - Downlink
Dual-band HT - Uplink
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 08:10:31 -0500
From: "Bob Bruninga" <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
To: "'AMSAT'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <00e201cccc74$914ee080$b3eca180$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You omitted all of the other full duplex radios: The D7 and D72 HT's and
D700 and D710 mobiles.
> Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world.
> you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910,
> Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds,
> chances are you have what you need!
There are 10's of thousands of these Kenwood radios out there, and many
people upgraded from the D7 and D700 to the D72 and D710 for the enhanced
APRS functions. But the full duplex dual band radios remain the best there
is for full duplex FM satellite AND APRS satellite work.
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:00:06 -0500 (EST)
From: K5OE <k5oe@xxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <8CE9A92A154BE80-2200-713B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, Bob, I see those old D700 at hamfests regularly. Add to the list of
full-duplex HTs the Yaesu FT-51R. I bought mine on ebay years ago for way
less than it costs to go to a Texans game. I did a quick check and found
one for sale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAESU-FT-51R-2M-440MHZ-PAGING-TRANCEIVER-PORTABLE-4-MI
KES-2-CHARGERS-MANUAL-/110802350647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cc55b237
An old HT almost always needs a new aftermarket battery (or two) if you plan
on actually using it handheld.
73,
Jerry, K5OE
> You omitted all of the other full duplex radios: The D7 and D72 HT's and
> D700 and D710 mobiles.
>
>> Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world.
>> you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910,
>> Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds,
>> chances are you have what you need!
>
> There are 10's of thousands of these Kenwood radios out there, and many
> people upgraded from the D7 and D700 to the D72 and D710 for the enhanced
> APRS functions. But the full duplex dual band radios remain the best there
> is for full duplex FM satellite AND APRS satellite work.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 08:16:48 -0600
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <F0FF322DC75B4FB386FDAAA2DCD7A779@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If it hasn't been mentioned, the Kenwood TM-V7A, the starting point of all
the D7XX family, also works well on full duplex. I have had a few Mobil
QSOs using a poor, for satellite ops, antenna. The only problem is that the
original display tends to fade and develop lines, which eventually render it
unusable. At one point, Kenwood fixed them free, and the replacement in
mine is still excellent after 10 years.
73s,
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:39:55 +0100
From: "Eric Knaps, ON4HF" <on4hf@xxxxxxx.xx>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <4F0707BB.10509@xxxxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
And please use full doppler correction. I always have to follow the
other station going higher in frequency and than come in the middle of
someone elses qso.
73,
Eric.
Amateur Radio Station ON4HF
Eric Knaps
Satellite manager UBA
http://www.on4hf.be
Op 06/01/2012 13:56, i8cvs schreef:
> Hi Clayton, W5PFG
>
> You have reinvented the wheel ! Since 1972 i.e. 40 years ago
> beginning with OSCAR-6 all of us we were using full-duplex
> capability because in the last century to call a CW or SSB
> CQ without hearin your self and than try to receice for a
> possible answere from someone it was considered a crazy
> procedure.
>
> Full-duplex CW and SSB continued from OSCAR-6 to all
> linear satellites up to AO40 but unfortunately it stopped
> beginning with the FM single channel satellites.
>
> If you actually suggest to enhance the easy FM sat experience
> using full-duplex probably the answere will be that it is too
> complicated and too costly.
>
> 73" de
>
> i8CVS Domenico
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clayton Coleman W5PFG"<kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "AMSAT"<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:42 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
>
>
> Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability?
>
> I realize that many amateurs jump into the satellite fray by utilizing
> an existing handheld radio and an antenna like the Arrow, Elk, or
> tape-measure beam. It's a great way to get your feet wet and make
> that "first" contact via the birds.
>
> Now, let's look at how we can do BETTER.
>
> Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. It
> allows you, the ground station, to know that your signal is being
> received and retransmitted by the satellite. I?m not saying it is a
> mandatory but once you see its benefit, you may never want to go
> ?semi? again.
>
> How do you really know you are being heard by the bird if you can't
> hear yourself? Answer: You don't.
>
> How do you know another station wasn't already being captured by the
> bird and in the middle of a QSO when you transmit? Answer: You don't.
>
> Let's talk about HOW to do full-duplex. First of all, you don't need
> base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or
> Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you
> need!
>
> What you need is at least one radio capable of transmitting on the
> uplink and one radio capable of receiving on the downlink. For
> example using AO-27:
>
> 1. A 2m-only HT, set to the satellite's uplink, ~145.85 MHz.
> 2. A 70cm-only HT, set to the satellite's downlink, ~436.795 MHz.
>
> One added benefit is that while hearing the downlink, you can twist
> your handheld
> antennas (like the Arrow) to match polarity and peak your uplink.
>
> Technically you do not even need a radio capable of transmitting to
> hear yourself on the downlink. A scanner or pocket receiver works
> dandy!
>
> To get into full-duplex inexpensively, there are numerous options.
> You can buy a NEW Baeofeng UV-3R for about $50-60 USD, shipped. This
> radio could serve as an uplink or downlink radio, depending on your
> need. I?m not peddling these radios but using them as an example.
>
> If you have the Arrow with the built-in diplexer, simply bypass it by
> running a patch cord from each radio to the respective UHF and VHF
> beams. If you are running an Elk or tape-measure 2m beam, you will
> need an inexpensive diplexer to give you both 2m and 70cm feed points.
> One can be constructed easily or purchased from numerous vendors for
> $30-80.
>
> Give full-duplex a try. You will not only help the satellite
> community by eliminating unnecessary hetero-dyning tug-of-war, it will
> generally make you sound better on the birds! Oh, and use a pair of
> earphones or a headset when you give it a try to avoid feedback.
>
> 73,
> Clayton
> W5PFG
>
> Here are some more example full-duplex combinations:
>
> Wouxon HT - Downlink
> 2m only-HT - Uplink
>
> FT-60R - Uplink
> Baofeng - Downlink
>
> Handheld scanner - Downlink
> Dual-band HT - Uplink
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 09:40:03 -0500
From: "Bill Acito W1PA" <w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <BAY157-ds128A0EC37BA161E999B34D98950@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
>> The only addition to your list is a receive preamp if you're running full
duplex.
Norm, I completely agree. I hang a ARR 432 pre-amp with it's own small 12v
pack between the
diplexor and the 432 side of the Arrow. I have an RF switched version just
in case I do
something stupid with the FT-530. I use a headset so there is no audio
feedback/echo.
Makes all the difference on low passes (<5) and less than optimal locations.
Bill W1PA
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 15:04:14 -0000
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <APBIDDLE@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <CA725F0AF27F407AADE8F55DB330D665@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
And the V7A has an excellent receiver in it! QST measured it as more
sensitive on UHF than most dualbanders. I miss the one I had, and wouldn't
mind finding another.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 2:16 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
> If it hasn't been mentioned, the Kenwood TM-V7A, the starting point of all
> the D7XX family, also works well on full duplex. I have had a few Mobil
> QSOs using a poor, for satellite ops, antenna. The only problem is that
> the
> original display tends to fade and develop lines, which eventually render
> it
> unusable. At one point, Kenwood fixed them free, and the replacement in
> mine is still excellent after 10 years.
>
> 73s,
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 10:47:32 -0600
From: Clayton Coleman W5PFG <kayakfishtx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Message-ID: <322C92F8-793F-4545-838F-0DF2BC15306B@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have made 1000+ contacts via satellites using a TM-D700 and TM-D710. The
receive is excellent. Without a preamp, I can work any of the current FM
birds from AOS to LOS. I'm always on the lookout for deals on used ones
locally. I actually prefer the 700 for portable since I can run a serial
cable right to the front of the radio to interface with UISS on my laptop.
73
Clayton
W5PFG
Sent from my mobile phone.
On Jan 6, 2012, at 7:10, "Bob Bruninga" <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> There are 10's of thousands of these Kenwood radios out there, and many
> people upgraded from the D7 and D700 to the D72 and D710 for the enhanced
> APRS functions. But the full duplex dual band radios remain the best there
> is for full duplex FM satellite AND APRS satellite work.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 12:07:57 -0600
From: John Spasojevich <johnag9d@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISSat-1 Die Hards
Message-ID:
<CA+qbou41DRd81zZSAg0FaN=daP5Vx23fmmxQvTEwyQyzYSSBkQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
If you go to www.n9xh.org you will find some shots of a young man, new to
the hobby, with his freshly delivered by Santa HT and a home brew antenna
catching the last few SSTV images from ARISSat. I think he's been a ham
for just a couple of months. Great to see.
73,
John - AG9D
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 7, Issue 14
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