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CX2SA > SATDIG 01.11.11 21:04l 636 Lines 22962 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 111101/1902Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:35778 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB6608
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. OFDM Transceivers (Trevor .)
2. Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking? (Stefan Wagener)
3. Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking? (Andrew Glasbrenner)
4. Re: OFDM Transceivers (Gregg Wonderly)
5. Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking? (Armando Mercado)
6. Rv: DK78 2011-11-04 (Omar Alvarez)
7. DX world has a good page (wa4hfn@xxxxxxx.xxxx
8. Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking? (Armando Mercado)
9. Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking? (Peter Guelzow)
10. Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking? (i8cvs)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:57:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] OFDM Transceivers
Message-ID:
<1320159438.80309.YahooMailClassic@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Just over a decade ago Peleg 4X1GP gave a good presentation to the annual
AMSAT-UK Colloquium in Guildford that pointed out that OFDM was the way
ahead for Amateur communications.
Well 10 years later the first OFDM Amateur transceivers have been announced.
Doodle Labs have announced a range of 64 QAM OFDM Transceivers for the
Amateur bands above 420 MHz.
The 420 MHz transceivers feature speeds of up to 12 Mbps and bandwidths of
10 MHz or 5 MHz, while data throughput of 48 Mbps is claimed on the 1240 MHz
verssion.
Details of the 420 MHz version are at
http://www.doodlelabs.com/products-and-services/amateur-bands/420-450-mhz-band
-dl435.html
The others in the range can be seen at
http://doodlelabs.com/products-and-services.html#Amateur
----
73 Trevor M5AKA
Daily Amateur Radio Email/RSS News: http://www.southgatearc.org/
Email Your News To: editor at southgatearc.org
Or Upload At: http://www.southgatearc.org/news/your_news_1.htm
----
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:18:49 -0500
From: Stefan Wagener <wageners@xxxxx.xxx>
To: KE7OSN <ke7osn@xxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
Message-ID:
<CAKu8kHCmdbQP=LDVCD0C5t5t6w+4N=CRAahZaV3fOF5kqeW2mA@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks Anthony,
Point well made. Keep up the good work and know that many in AMSAT are
behind you and will support you.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:26 AM, KE7OSN <ke7osn@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I think having stations set up to do that ranging would be neat to have if
> nothing else for an education opportunity.
>
> As a student working on building and launching one of these little
> nano-satellites I would like to see one thing cleared up. These are NOT
> University satellites, they are student satellites. They are designed and
> built by students, funded through grants and donations arranged by
> students. Universities provide little more then an framework
> for organizing these sorts of projects. So if the university is going to
> chip in to some fund on behalf of those helping track the satellites, then
> it would be really nice for them to through some money at the building of
> the satellites. At my school the department sponsoring our project has to
> pay the university rent for the space we take up in a building "owned" by
> the department for a project made up entirely of tuition paying students.
> We may only pay around $7-15K in tuition, and another $5-10K in housing,
> food, books, etc. but most of us if we are lucky can make about half our
> yearly costs from summer jobs or internships. The rest we scrounge for
> scholarships and grants. We put in around 20 hours a week into class and
> labs, another 15-40 in other school work. What little free time we have we
> spend in research labs instead of watching TV, or drinking. We spend a lot
> of that time trying to keep the project funded to a level that allows us to
> continue. We are very aware of how much it costs to construct a station to
> track satellites, and to build the satellites, and to launch the
> satellites. If we are able to bring in any extra money we spend that right
> back into the students we have putting 20 hours a week that they could and
> probably should spend on something outside of school. We devote years into
> these little boxes of electronics, in the hope that it will someday fly in
> space. We reach out and connect with other students doing the same thing,
> we congratulate them for their successes, and console them on their losses.
> I personally was up all night watching this latest launch as one of the
> cubes (E1P) was to have been launch on the Glory mission in march which
> failed to reach orbit. It is now on orbit and doing fine, M-Cubed however
> seams to be having issues and I will track it every chance I get to help
> that team understand what is going on.
>
> I got into nano-satellites by first being a HAM, and if I have my way
> anything I put into orbit will be switched over to a BBS, APRS digi, or
> even voice repeater when the scientific mission is done. ?That time may not
> come in the operational life span of the satellite and it is very important
> that it complete the mission that someone has generously paid for. If
> nothing else then I hope what I learn from this endeavor will serve to
> further the collective understanding of something.
>
> I attend a state school as a student of Mechanical Engineering, I have been
> dumpster diving for parts, I carry two rolls of duct tape, I find a hammer
> can fix many problems, I have spent hours building things to replace tools
> I either cannot afford, or cannot afford to wait for. The moral is that
> these aren't multi-million dollar projects with blank checks, these are
> shoestring operations that have to take things one step at a time. If you
> don't want to help out the next generation of aerospace engineers and
> rocket scientists that's up to you. We won't turn down help, but many of us
> have grown to expect nothing from anyone. We will build a ladder so we can
> through our satellite into orbit if we have to.
>
> I'm sorry if I seam over passionate or long winded, but please keep in mind
> that I have watched for several years as budgets have been cut, my tuition
> and living expenses goes up, and my income and financial-aid remain the
> same. It is like a broken record (yes I know what records are) to hear
> people complain about a short term inconvenience and offer a solution that
> threatens long term progress.
>
> Anthony Odenthal
> KE7OSN
> President Amateur Radio Club at OSU
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 21:45, Dave Guimont <dguimon1@xxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> Very good, Peter, I was hoping we could get Jim to chime in!!
>>
>> 73 Dave
>>
>>
>> ?On 31.10.2011 21:17, jmfranke wrote:
>>> > To paraphrase Yoda in Star Wars:
>>> >
>>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Whine not. Do. Or do not. There is no whine.
>>> >
>>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?John WA4WDL
>>>
>>> or just do it yourself....
>>>
>>>
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/**articles/g3ruh/123.html<http://www.amsat.org/amsa
t/articles/g3ruh/123.html>
>>>
>>> Sorry - I could not resist.. ? old AMSAT technology, almost forgotten
>>> by most people...
>>>
>>> 73s
>>> Peter DB2OS
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? 73, Dave, WB6LLO
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dguimon1@xxx.xx.xxx
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Disagree: I learn....
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Pulling for P3E... ______________________________**
>> _________________
>>
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb<http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo
/amsat-bb>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:34:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: KE7OSN <ke7osn@xxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
Message-ID:
<6345572.1320161645834.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thanks Anthony for some perspective that some of us really need. If anything
there needs to be tighter cooperation between the general AMSAT community
and the universities, and less of this adversarial nastiness and "gimme"
mentality.
The Fox program is trying to address some of these issues by providing the
spacecraft bus and repeater (or transponder in Fox-2), and room for an
experiment from a partner university. We hope the experiment and university
partnership gets us a low-cost launch, and the university gets a ground
network and reliable comms system. AMSAT gets an on-orbit asset after, and
probably during, the experiment part of the mission. Win-win.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message-----
>From: KE7OSN <ke7osn@xxxx.xxx>
>Sent: Nov 1, 2011 4:26 AM
>To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
>
>I think having stations set up to do that ranging would be neat to have if
>nothing else for an education opportunity.
>
>As a student working on building and launching one of these little
>nano-satellites I would like to see one thing cleared up. These are NOT
>University satellites, they are student satellites. They are designed and
>built by students, funded through grants and donations arranged by
>students. Universities provide little more then an framework
>for organizing these sorts of projects. So if the university is going to
>chip in to some fund on behalf of those helping track the satellites, then
>it would be really nice for them to through some money at the building of
>the satellites. At my school the department sponsoring our project has to
>pay the university rent for the space we take up in a building "owned" by
>the department for a project made up entirely of tuition paying students.
>We may only pay around $7-15K in tuition, and another $5-10K in housing,
>food, books, etc. but most of us if we are lucky can make about half our
>yearly costs from summer jobs or internships. The rest we scrounge for
>scholarships and grants. We put in around 20 hours a week into class and
>labs, another 15-40 in other school work. What little free time we have we
>spend in research labs instead of watching TV, or drinking. We spend a lot
>of that time trying to keep the project funded to a level that allows us to
>continue. We are very aware of how much it costs to construct a station to
>track satellites, and to build the satellites, and to launch the
>satellites. If we are able to bring in any extra money we spend that right
>back into the students we have putting 20 hours a week that they could and
>probably should spend on something outside of school. We devote years into
>these little boxes of electronics, in the hope that it will someday fly in
>space. We reach out and connect with other students doing the same thing,
>we congratulate them for their successes, and console them on their losses.
>I personally was up all night watching this latest launch as one of the
>cubes (E1P) was to have been launch on the Glory mission in march which
>failed to reach orbit. It is now on orbit and doing fine, M-Cubed however
>seams to be having issues and I will track it every chance I get to help
>that team understand what is going on.
>
>I got into nano-satellites by first being a HAM, and if I have my way
>anything I put into orbit will be switched over to a BBS, APRS digi, or
>even voice repeater when the scientific mission is done. That time may not
>come in the operational life span of the satellite and it is very important
>that it complete the mission that someone has generously paid for. If
>nothing else then I hope what I learn from this endeavor will serve to
>further the collective understanding of something.
>
>I attend a state school as a student of Mechanical Engineering, I have been
>dumpster diving for parts, I carry two rolls of duct tape, I find a hammer
>can fix many problems, I have spent hours building things to replace tools
>I either cannot afford, or cannot afford to wait for. The moral is that
>these aren't multi-million dollar projects with blank checks, these are
>shoestring operations that have to take things one step at a time. If you
>don't want to help out the next generation of aerospace engineers and
>rocket scientists that's up to you. We won't turn down help, but many of us
>have grown to expect nothing from anyone. We will build a ladder so we can
>through our satellite into orbit if we have to.
>
>I'm sorry if I seam over passionate or long winded, but please keep in mind
>that I have watched for several years as budgets have been cut, my tuition
>and living expenses goes up, and my income and financial-aid remain the
>same. It is like a broken record (yes I know what records are) to hear
>people complain about a short term inconvenience and offer a solution that
>threatens long term progress.
>
>Anthony Odenthal
>KE7OSN
>President Amateur Radio Club at OSU
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:41:31 -0500
From: Gregg Wonderly <w5ggw@xxx.xxx>
To: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OFDM Transceivers
Message-ID: <4EB0132B.10800@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
This is a truly awesome development...
Gregg
On 11/1/2011 9:57 AM, Trevor . wrote:
> Just over a decade ago Peleg 4X1GP gave a good presentation to the annual
AMSAT-UK Colloquium in Guildford that pointed out that OFDM was the way
ahead for Amateur communications.
>
> Well 10 years later the first OFDM Amateur transceivers have been announced.
>
> Doodle Labs have announced a range of 64 QAM OFDM Transceivers for the
Amateur bands above 420 MHz.
>
> The 420 MHz transceivers feature speeds of up to 12 Mbps and bandwidths of
10 MHz or 5 MHz, while data throughput of 48 Mbps is claimed on the 1240 MHz
verssion.
>
> Details of the 420 MHz version are at
>
http://www.doodlelabs.com/products-and-services/amateur-bands/420-450-mhz-band
-dl435.html
>
> The others in the range can be seen at
> http://doodlelabs.com/products-and-services.html#Amateur
>
> ----
> 73 Trevor M5AKA
> Daily Amateur Radio Email/RSS News: http://www.southgatearc.org/
> Email Your News To: editor at southgatearc.org
> Or Upload At: http://www.southgatearc.org/news/your_news_1.htm
> ----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:38:48 -0400
From: "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
Message-ID: <10A93A1CC8974CCA83F9898B76C8D44F@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
Great!
I look forward to seeing the results.
Will the keps be posted here or will they
be available on a subscription basis only?
:-)
73, Armando N8IGJ
>If our satellite has an onboard transponder it is possible
>to create the keplerian elements at a ground control station
>using the following method:
>http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/123.html
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:51:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Omar Alvarez <xe1aom@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxxx <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Rv: DK78 2011-11-04
Message-ID:
<1320166271.73994.YahooMailNeo@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hello
Celebrating my birthday I want to activate DK78 for all my Sat friends.
Hope be in AO-51 at 22:46 UTC.
Maybe I will be in AO-51 at 21:10 UTC, is a low pass for me in my portable
QRP station.
I really try to celebrate my 42 years old? from this grid at the pacific
coast.
Its my birthday? but I will try it for all of you.
Regards
Omar
XE1AO
?
********************************
M.C. Omar Alvarez C?rdenas
Facultad de Telematica, U
de C
316 1075
xe1aom@xxxx.xx
omar_ac@xxxxxxx.xxx
********************************
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:58:16 +0000 (UTC)
From: wa4hfn@xxxxxxx.xxx
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] DX world has a good page
Message-ID:
<957278880.1286305.1320166696399.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxx
xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
http://dxworld.com/satlog.html
wa4hfn
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:28:44 -0400
From: "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
Message-ID: <824B1EB36D1040D9950799D55D1A4A6F@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>..........but please keep in mind
>that I have watched for several years as budgets have been cut, my tuition
>and living expenses goes up, and my income and financial-aid remain the
>same. It is like a broken record (yes I know what records are) to hear
>people complain about a short term inconvenience and offer a solution that
>threatens long term progress.
>Anthony Odenthal
>KE7OSN
>President Amateur Radio Club at OSU
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Anthony,
Very well said. I find it astonishing the tone
deafness of some of the postings that
appear here from time to time.
Thanks for your post.
73, Armando N8IGJ
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:00:02 +0100
From: Peter Guelzow <peter.guelzow@xxxxxx.xx>
To: g.shirville@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
Message-ID: <4EB033A2.2040707@xxxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Graham,
this is very good news indeed and I'm excited to hear that you will use
it on FUNcube and UKcube.. the principals of ranging are easy to
understand and I think it would be an ideal educational tool to learn
about orbital mechanics, Kepler's law, etc., even how GPS works..
argh... we could create our own GNSS system .. haha :-)
The AMSAT ranging system developed by Karl Meinzer DJ4ZC and later
optimized by James Miller G3RUH was used on all Phase 3 satellites
(OSCAR-10/13/40). You only needed an 400 Bit/s BPSK demodulator (used
for telemetry already) and a BPSK modulator (as part of our command
station). With the Phase 3 satellites it was also working through the
regenerative ranging mode of the IHU, i.e. the Beacon TX data was
directly feed by the Command RX. Like with the transponder, you have to
measure or calculate the system phase delays to calibrate it and achieve
higher accuracy. This includes calibrating your own system through a
simple "repeater"... but even without calibration, it already works
amazingly well..
Most people will laugh today, but the early AMSAT ranging software was
running on the amazing ATARI 800 computer and Karl's IPS software.
Beside the P3 satellites, we used this also LEO like AO-21 and on FUJI
OSCAR-12 to provide early Elements for those satellites... it was fun!
73
Peter DB2OS
On 01.11.2011 10:03, g.shirville@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Many thanks for the link. On our FUNcube cubesat mission we are
> promoting, as one of the many educational outreach subjects, the
> opportunity for a group to design and build such a ranging system
> using the U/V linear transponder that we will be flying on board. The
> same functionality will also be available on UKube.
>
> Maybe others can use this idea to help justify the presence of amateur
> transponders on satellites to provide independent position
> information. We might, however, have to ask Jim to take down his paper
> from the web so as not to make it too easy:)
>
>
> best 73
>
> Graham
> G3VZV
>
> or just do it yourself....
>
> http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/123.html
>
> Sorry - I could not resist.. old AMSAT technology, almost forgotten
> by most people...
>
> 73s
> Peter DB2OS
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:49:11 +0100
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxx.xx>
To: "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>, "Amsat - BBs"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
Message-ID: <002201cc98c6$f2950220$0401a8c0@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Armando, N8IGJ
If unlikely AMSAT will be oblijed to derive by itself
keps for the OSCAR satellites carrying a transponder
using the following method:
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/123.html
or the GPS method:
ftp://rsd.gsfc.nasa.gov/pub/chesters/goesref/Moreau_GPS.pdf
the keps will be posted here for free in the hope to get more
satellite users and AMSAT members.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando Mercado" <am25544@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 5:38 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Charge for Satellite Tracking?
> Hi,
>
> Great!
> I look forward to seeing the results.
> Will the keps be posted here or will they
> be available on a subscription basis only?
>
> :-)
>
> 73, Armando N8IGJ
>
> >If our satellite has an onboard transponder it is possible
> >to create the keplerian elements at a ground control station
> >using the following method:
>
> >http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/123.html
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 6, Issue 608
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