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CX2SA > SATDIG 23.09.11 20:07l 720 Lines 23785 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Two Questions (Mark L. Hammond)
2. Re: Two Questions (Buckley, Jack)
3. SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions) (Stephen E. Belter)
4. Re: Two Questions (Michael Schulz)
5. Re: Two Questions (Michael Schulz)
6. SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions) (Werner, HB9BNK)
7. Re: SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions) (Dee)
8. Re: Two Questions (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
9. Re: Two Questions (Michael Schulz)
10. Re: Two Questions (Rick - WA4NVM)
11. Re: Two Questions (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:12:50 -0400
From: "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhammond@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "Ted" <k7trkradio@xxxxxxx.xxx>, "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID: <cBCq1h0084ltuWb05BCqrB@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>SATPC32 looks to me like an 80's dos program. Very unattractive.
>
>//
>K7TRK
>
>
SatPC32 might not have the spiffiest graphics (there is a non-cartoon mode,
btw), but its function is phenomenal.
If you want frequency and rotor control, it's hard to beat. One radio, two
radios, transverters, tones, odd splits, good adjustments for tx/rx matching
on transponders, automatic switching between satellites---it pretty much
does it all. It's for satellite operators, written (and maintained) by a
satellite operator. That's hard to beat :)
It takes time with the program to really get the hang of it, and to see
exactly how much it will do, and how well it will do it. It isn't a program
you fire up the very first time and have running exactly like you want it in
2 minutes. It's one you keep tweaking and adjusting to what YOU want it to
do. THEN it's click and go, every time.
Here's a statement--it's the only program current command stations trust and
use :)
73!
Mark N8MH
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:13:44 +0000
From: "Buckley, Jack" <JBUCKLEY1@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "'amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "w1akn@xxxx.xxxx <w1akn@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID:
<8099F985AEF69542ACA7FEDD0CA9AF1D48ABFCBD@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I love it :) Controversy that is!
Real men use Linux/UNIX anyway (sorry couldn't resists and a bit of
controversy is always fun ;) ).
73 Mike K5TRI
Mike,
I thought real men could use anything or rather make anything work including
computer operating systems (OSes)? :O ;) :)
Boy does a discussion regarding OSes open a can of worms or what? Around
here it can get downright bloody
FYI: W1AKN uses all the OSes (not by choice)
Love the AMSATBB - great source of knowledge. Just had to chuckle and throw
my nickel in the pot :(
It is always nice to see someone chime in with a bit of humor. Thank you for
the grin and laugh this morning Mike -
--... ...--
Jack Buckley
Callsign: W1AKN
Locator: FN41mv - Cape Cod <;))))><
E-Mail: w1akn@xxxx.xxx<xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:41:36 -0400
From: "Stephen E. Belter" <seb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT-BB <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions)
Message-ID:
<51668A33220E754EABE6583357ECEE2D79CD5E84@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This e-mail is my feeble attempt to provide a helpful response to how to
set-up SatPC32 for Doppler correction when operating SSB. I'm not an
expert, but I just went through this process because I'm migrating from Nova
to SatPC32.
Since I'm out-of-town, I don't have access to my satellite station, so I'm
doing this from memory. I also deleted your original post, as I was hopeful
that an expert would step forward to help you.
Your station is fine, with the Kenwood TS-2000 (?) and SatPC32. Your
success operating the FM satellites is a good proving ground.
Here is the approach I took:
(1) Install SatPC32, update the Keplarian elements, and synchronize the PC
clock to a national standard like WWV/NIST.
(2) Get your radio and SatPC32 communicating, and verify the operation
(including Doppler correction) using the FM satellites (AO-27, SO-50, and
AO-51).
(3) Wait for a good pass of VO-52, for example 60+ degrees maximum
elevation. I suggest VO-52 because it is the newest (compared to AO-7 and
FO-29), it is more tolerant of using too much transmit power, and it has the
smallest transponder correction.
(4) Open the "CAT" window. You can move the Window so that it doesn't
block access to the main SatPC32 window. Tune the radio above the center of
the satellite passband to reduce the QRM to other users. Make sure you are
in SSB mode on the radio ("C-" on SatPC32).
(5) Using your call and "Test 1-2-3", listen for yourself while you are
transmitting. You probably won't hear yourself at all, at least I didn't.
Using the +100 and -100 buttons in the Transmit Correction part of the CAT
window, try to find yourself. For VO-52, you should hear yourself within
+/- 1500 hertz. (I think I was about +800, but that is from memory.)
(6) Once you hear yourself using the +/-100 buttons, fine tune using the
+/-10 buttons.
(7) You can improve the tuning of your uplink/downlink using CW mode ("C+"
on SatPC32). Zero-beat the Kenwood's CW sidetone with your received signal.
(8) *Save* the result by using the "Save" button in the CAT window. When
given the choice, save the transmitter correction.
(9) Verify that things are working by working a few VO-52 QSOs.
(10) Repeat using FO-29 and AO-7, in that order. You may need to search
over a wider frequency range (+/-3000 hertz).
(11) One other important change when moving from FM to SSB. Your power
output is important! Learn how to reduce your power and use the minimum
power needed to hear yourself on the satellite. If you use too much power,
you'll trash other conversations on the satellite and your transmissions
will be badly distorted!
Good luck!
73, Steve N9IP
--
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:52:17 -0500
From: Michael Schulz <mschulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID: <0FDC76B4-64F2-42A9-AB5B-6B6BD889EDC3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sep 23, 2011, at 6:13 AM, Buckley, Jack wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I thought real men could use anything or rather make anything work
including computer operating systems (OSes)? :O ;) :)
>
> Boy does a discussion regarding OSes open a can of worms or what? Around
here it can get downright bloody
>
> FYI: W1AKN uses all the OSes (not by choice)
Haha .. well I use many too. I use Windows 7 and Linux for work, I use Mac
OS X for my private desktop and then again Linux
for my servers and ham radio activities. Well this weekend I will boot into
Windows for that to run N1MM for the Texas QSO Party.
There even reports of me using Solaris, Tru64 and AIX. But those are just
reports.
But hey ..if you want to go fishing, you need worms, don't you? :)
> Love the AMSATBB - great source of knowledge. Just had to chuckle and
throw my nickel in the pot :(
>
> It is always nice to see someone chime in with a bit of humor. Thank you
for the grin and laugh this morning Mike -
If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong :). Enjoy the day and hear
you on the birds (the linear ones of course,
because they as well are for real men ;) ). But glad I could help.
73 Mike K5TRI
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:56:18 -0500
From: Michael Schulz <mschulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID: <909906C6-3341-4779-AE98-E64A756C9466@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Domenico,
I already came across your articles. The reason I brought it up was that I
see so many complain about
new hams not knowing this, or that and the other too but then most don't
really try to help and teach.
I live by the principle that what you learn you must share and what you know
you must teach. That's the
only way we as society evolve and that includes ham radio :).
But again, bashing on the newcomers doesn't help anything. If they're only
shown how to work a satellite
with a HT and a store bought antenna then that's what we get. Let's help
these folks get to the next step
and show them that you can actually have a real QSO on a satellite but in an
informative way, not talking
down on them.
73 Mike K5TRI
On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:49 PM, i8cvs wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Schulz" <mschulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:20 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
>
>> Domenico,
>
> <snip>
>>
>> There seems to be a lot of bashing of clueless newbs wherever I turn on
>> the Internet when it comes to ham radio. So I have to ask you: have you
>> done anything lately to educate new hams?
>>
>>> 73 Mike K5TRI
>
> Hi Mike K5TRI
>
> Yes I did always my effort to educate the new radio hams to use satellites
> in order to improve their knoledge in radio tecnology and not only to use
> satellites to collect only grids for very small.
>
> Read please my technical articles into the AMSAT-Journal
>
> 73" de
>
> i8CVS Domenico
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:26:51 +0200
From: "Werner, HB9BNK" <hb9bnk@xxxx.xx>
To: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions)
Message-ID: <4E7C891B.3040703@xxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Steve,
Congratulations: you did a great job in taking the time to write
this helpful description !
I could have used it years ago and will check my procedures today
73 Werner, HB9BNK
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:42:44 -0400
From: Dee <morsesat@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "'Stephen E. Belter'" <seb@xxxxxx.xxx>, "'AMSAT-BB'"
<AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions)
Message-ID: <000001cc7a07$70bbd720$52338560$@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
All & Steve,
Very good procedure Steve. Let us not get hung up on operating
systems. The last time I recommended SATPC32 to be purchased by
someone to update their system and also donate to AMSAT to help out
our satellite funds for future sats, I was chastised for suggesting
a Windows program instead of Lithem. Works fine for me.
While at field day, I answered many questions about how tuning goes
for SSB and FM Birds. At flea markets I have a set up for the birds
with a IC-910 and a SATPC32 controlled G5400 setup with a split
arrow antenna and make as many contacts as time permits- Most of
the time, I get to sell a program or 2 since they see it's use and
"Promise" to answer questions if they have any when the y buy it.
This is why I am an AMSAT coordinator here in NJ and try to pass on
what I have learned since Late 70's of satellite ops. Yes, I miss
the HEO sats and enjoyed them while they were around. Our sights as
satellite user's must be on the future to get an HEO or MEO
satellite in orbit. If our membership is to grow we have to start
attracting satellite user's to our ranks by adding their support for
our activities. (Advertisement???)
Presently, ARISSat1 is in the forefront. It is operating fine and
if you haven't heard it yet, listen on 145.950 +-doppler for a good
signal voice announcements and SSTV. You may find they call this
satellite "radioskaf-B" in the keps list.
Anyway, follow Steve's procedure and you can't lose. I worked FO-29
Yesterday and there were about 6 people using that bird.
73,
Dee, NB2F
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx
On Behalf Of Stephen E. Belter
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 7:42 AM
To: AMSAT-BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] SSB, SatPC32 and Doppler (was Two Questions)
This e-mail is my feeble attempt to provide a helpful response to
how to set-up SatPC32 for Doppler correction when operating SSB.
I'm not an expert, but I just went through this process because I'm
migrating from Nova to SatPC32.
Since I'm out-of-town, I don't have access to my satellite station,
so I'm doing this from memory. I also deleted your original post,
as I was hopeful that an expert would step forward to help you.
Your station is fine, with the Kenwood TS-2000 (?) and SatPC32.
Your success operating the FM satellites is a good proving ground.
Here is the approach I took:
(1) Install SatPC32, update the Keplarian elements, and synchronize
the PC clock to a national standard like WWV/NIST.
(2) Get your radio and SatPC32 communicating, and verify the
operation (including Doppler correction) using the FM satellites
(AO-27, SO-50, and AO-51).
(3) Wait for a good pass of VO-52, for example 60+ degrees maximum
elevation. I suggest VO-52 because it is the newest (compared to
AO-7 and FO-29), it is more tolerant of using too much transmit
power, and it has the smallest transponder correction.
(4) Open the "CAT" window. You can move the Window so that it
doesn't block access to the main SatPC32 window. Tune the radio
above the center of the satellite passband to reduce the QRM to
other users. Make sure you are in St +800, but that is from memory.)
(6) Once you hear yourself using the +/-100 buttons, fine tune
using the +/-10 buttons.
(7) You can improve the tuning of your uplink/downlink using CW
mode ("C+" on SatPC32). Zero-beat the Kenwood's CW sidetone with
your received signal.
(8) *Save* the result by using the "Save" button in the CAT window.
When given the choice, save the transmitter correction.
(9) Verify that things are working by working a few VO-52 QSOs.
(10) Repeat using FO-29 and AO-7, in that order. You may need to
search over a wider frequency range (+/-3000 hertz).
(11) One other important change when moving from FM to SSB. Your
power output is important! Learn how to reduce your power and use
the minimum power needed to hear yourself on the satellite. If you
use too much power, you'll trash other conversations on the
satellite and your transmissions will be badly distorted!
Good luck!
73, Steve N9IP
--
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:18:16 -0700
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUcMKv-PAQd8EU2=1H4uHiqnahYXxyuHK35MuAnzThdjNQ@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi!
WB9SBD commented:
>> "Are the linear sats too complicated?
>
> NO!
>
><snip>
>
> As far as doppler correction,,, we turned the large knob on the front of the
> radio, ?thats our doppler correction system.
>
><snip>
>
> Simple and very effective ?thousands of hams did it for decades, no reason
> it won't work now.
It still works in 2011.
Until very recently, I did all my satellite operating with portable stations
in
the field - city parks, parking lots, hamfests, the proverbial "middle of
nowhere", or wherever I could set up and operate. I intentionally started
out without relying on a computer to control my radios, and have stayed
with that for the past few years I have been on the SSB birds. For me,
a computer would add to the complexity of operating in the field - have
to power it, be able to see the LCD display (a problem with many laptops
that use glossy LCD panels like my Acer netbook), and hoping it doesn't
suffer a failure.
Now that I just moved into a house, I hope to take some time to finally dust
off my SatPC32 and USB/serial adapters and see how things are with
computer control, working initially from my back yard. I'll probably still
deal
with the antenna by holding it, and then getting a tripod it can sit on.
Down the road, I *m usually needed for the SSB birds compared to FM, but it will open up more
satellites that you can work. And it is fun!
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:31:26 -0500
From: Michael Schulz <mschulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Amsat - BBs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID: <E0B5497B-CA84-42D0-BA10-1CB5C8551BD4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sep 23, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
> I hope you are able to be on VO-52 on Saturday, 22 October, when I am doing
> demonstrations on FM and SSB satellites from a hamfest in Tucson AZ that
> morning. If there are FM passes available that morning, I will be on them -
> as well as the VO-52 passes. At the hamfests I have operated from, the SSB
> demonstrations usually attract the larger crowds. When they see it does not
> take much more equipment to work SSB than FM via satellite, that turns out
> to be a pleasant surprise for the audiences.
In the morning should be a 9:40ish am pass local time for me. So I might be
on it
sipping my coffee :). The big difference that you can show is, that the
linear birds
are not like a zoo at times (except for the 5 am passes during the weekends
on AO-51)
and you can have a real QSO for the entire length of the pass. Granted you
row or Elk in terms of price by leaps :). But then
again it doesn't look
as nice.
73 Mike K5TRI
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:46:10 -0500
From: "Rick - WA4NVM" <wa4nvm@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Michael Schulz" <mschulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "Amsat - BBs"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID: <5669A5F763ED407C8E9213D9BF0A9448@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi All,
On this subject, I took my AO-7 and AO-8 Oscarlocator's to the local ham
breakfast this morning to
show some of the newer (last few years) operators how we did it in the 70's
before computers, etc.
Does anyone have an old copy of a late 70's or early 80's QST that has the
old monthly chart in it?
For you later operator's, they printed a chart with the first equator
crossing each day for each bird.
Then you plotted each pass and used your Oscarlocator to see when the bird
was in your footprint.
I would just like a copy of that chart from someone.
Thanks in advance for any replies,
Rick WA4NVM LM1339
> Domenico,
>
> I already came across your articles. The reason I brought it up was that I
> see so many complain about
> new hams not knowing this, or that and the other too but then most don't
> really try to help and teach.
>
> I live by the principle that what you learn you must share and what you
> know you must teach. That's the
> only way we as society evolve and that includes ham radio :).
>
> But again, bashing on the newcomers doesn't help anything. If they're only
> shown how to work a satellite
> with a HT and a store bought antenna then that's what we get. Let's help
> these folks get to the next step
> and show them that you can actually have a real QSO on a satellite but in
> an informative way, not talking
> down on them.
>
> 73 Mike K5TRI
>
> On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:49 PM, i8cvs wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Schulz" <mschulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>> To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:20 AM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
>>
>>> Domenico,
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> There seems to be a lot of bashing of clueless newbs wherever I turn on
>>> the Internet when it comes to ham radio. So I have to ask you: have you
>>> done anything lately to educate new hams?
>>>
>>>> 73 Mike K5TRI
>>
>> Hi Mike K5TRI
>>
>> Yes I did always my effort to educate the new radio hams to use
>> satellites
>> in order to improve their knoledge in radio tecnology and not only to use
>> satellites to collect only grids for very small.
>>
>> Read please my technical articles into the AMSAT-Journal
>>
>> 73" de
>>
>> i8CVS Domenico
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:54:08 -0700
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUeX2W0XhBQ0jCXntiX1TTD4QHkw6zDiJAUvUwD3vLz55g@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Mike!
> In the morning should be a 9:40ish am pass local time for me. So I might
be on it
> sipping my coffee :). The big difference that you can show is, that the
linear birds
> are not like a zoo at times (except for the 5 am passes during the
weekends on AO-51)
> and you can have a real QSO for the entire length of the pass. Granted you
may only
> collect one grid and you may already have that one but it's simply an
addition.
It may be almost a month until that hamfest in Tucson, but I hope to hear you
on that morning.
I've done demonstrations on SSB satellites for the past couple of years, and
know that I may end up with a single QSO for the entire pass. On some rare
occasions, I end up talking to myself for the entire pass. Then I can pass
the
time by demonstrating how I sound through the satellite as I reduce power from
5W to the lowest power setting on my FT-817ND transmitter (500mW). I
usually can get more than one QSO on these demonstrations, thanks to those
reading the -BB and showing up on the passes I am working.
As for grids, the QSOs at demonstrations away from the Phoenix area don't help
my grid count. They may help your grid count, depending on what you need.
:-)
> My current antenna setup is a AR-22 TV rotor with a 5 ele 2M and a 10 ele
70cm at
> 30 deg fixed elevation both horizontal polarized. Total cost approx. $200
plus cables.
> Next project will be to build a 2nd IOio and phase them together 90 deg
off to see if
> that will help with the fading issue (mostly on FO-29) vs buying or
building a complex
> RHCP/LHCP switchable setup.
If that's what you were using when I worked you last month on VO-52, it
sounded
really well. Good job! Maybe we can hook up on FO-29 or AO-7 (mode B)
sometime
soon.
> My IOio beats your Arrow or Elk in terms of price by leaps :). But then
again it doesn't look
> as nice.
My Elk was a Christmas gift a few years ago, so it was free to me.
But yes, the cost
of the parts for an IOio or a WA5VJB "cheap Yagi" will beat the MSRP of my
Elk.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 6, Issue 533
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