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CX2SA > SATDIG 28.06.11 05:23l 896 Lines 32281 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: How to get started on SSB birds (Edward R. Cole)
2. Re: FD Mess (Gregg Wonderly)
3. Re: FD Mess (Edward R. Cole)
4. Re: FD Mess (R Oler)
5. Re: [AMSAT-BB] ISS, what the heck happened? (R Oler)
6. Re: FD Mess (R Oler)
7. Re: FD Mess (Ben Napper)
8. Re: How to get started on SSB birds (antennas) (Edward R. Cole)
9. Re: FD Mess (Joe)
10. Re: FD Mess (Bruce Paige)
11. Re: How to get started on SSB birds (antennas) (Bob- W7LRD)
12. subscribe (Don Ferguson)
13. Re: FD Mess (Tim Cunningham)
14. Re: FD Mess (Art McBride)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:16:38 -0800
From: "Edward R. Cole" <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How to get started on SSB birds
To: wa4hfn@xxxxxxx.xxxx Jeremy Widner <jeremyrwidner@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <201106280016.p5S0GcEK037258@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 03:51 PM 6/27/2011, Edward R. Cole wrote:
>Or Lindenblads or Quadrafillers. Info is on the Amsat webpage for
>these, right?
>
>73, Ed - KL7uW
>
Sorry I should have also said I have links on my webpage for the Lindenblads:
http://www.kl7uw.com/sat.htm
http://www.kl7uw.com/LBant.htm
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:19:31 -0500
From: Gregg Wonderly <w5ggw@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: John Geiger <aa5jg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4E091E13.40102@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
My club event is usually quite social, but, we use logging software that has
the
name of the operator in it, and logs over the network. So, it's always
visible,
who's working and who's not. I sat down on two different bands on two
different
occasions for about 1.5 hours each, calling CQ using phone with W5OK. I
worked
nearly 400 stations doing that, and if I wanted to put in more time, I could
have more than doubled that by going to other bands. I didn't use a keyer
and I
didn't use head phones.
If you want to contest, and want people around you to learn to contest, field
day is a great time to go out and show people how to do 30 sec or less
contacts.
If the experienced and capable operators hide in the comfort of the house
and
work as a 1D, then field day will soon just be a contest from the house...
Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW
On 6/27/2011 6:34 PM, John Geiger wrote:
> I wish it was treated like a major contest by my local club-I might attend
> their FD setup then.
>
> 73s John AA5jG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe"<nss@xxx.xxx>
> To:<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:22 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
>
>> I know the ARRL says it is not a contest. but if you believe that I
>> have a lovely swamp in Arizona to sell you.
>>
>> I know many clubs that it is a MAJOR contest for them and some it's the
>> onluy one they enter in.
>>
>> Joe WB9SBD
>>
>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
>> Idle Tyme
>> Idle-Tyme.com
>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
>>
>> On 6/27/2011 1:21 PM, Nigel Gunn wrote:
>>> A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
>>> your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
>>> FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
>>>
>>> On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
>>>> I think we have to let go of the mantra that ?any use of the bandwidth
>>>> is good use? with respect to ?encouraging more satellite activity?.
>>>> Wasn?t that the original intent of the ?100 point bonus? items? To
>>>> encourage specific activities ? traffic handling, promotion, emergency
>>>> power, etc.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:31:31 -0800
From: "Edward R. Cole" <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: John Geiger <aa5jg@xxxxxxx.xxx>, Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <201106280033.p5S0Xi5k098339@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
OK, you want to play "Reality":
IN a mass-casualty disaster, I hope satellite users will be smart
enough to "Restrict satellite use for emergency traffic". Each pass
will be strictly controlled by a Net Control with closed-net
protocols (no calls without permission of NC). NC WILL be traffic
cop and it will be one at a time calling...offenders will be "visited
by black suburbans and guys wearing sunglasses and padded suit coats"! ;-)
Seriously, under emcomm there WILL BE RULES and they will be
ENFORCED...as they should be.
so there is there is no comparison with ham radio, as usual.
Another reality: historically, most ham radio emcomm is passed on HF
or terrestrial VHF.
My unsolicited opinion: digital-comms is where satellite will be
most useful in emergency traffic.
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 11:54 AM 6/27/2011, John Geiger wrote:
>That is a good point. I am sure that if/when the big one hits and we need
>to pass emergency communications, we will have to do it under less than
>optimal conditions or "rules" including on the satellites. When such an
>occassion occurs, I doubt everyone will be limiting themselves to 5 watts or
>less, or only 1 QSO per satellite per day or weekend. I think most people
>will be trying to get through any way they can to pass traffic. We should
>get used to the pandamonium, that it what it will actually be like.
>
>73s John AA5JG
>
>On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Because, just maybe, one day you'll have to do it for real!
> >
> >
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:40:26 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>, <w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W35D97ECC100739651AD7BBD6570@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Exactly. Why anyone would think that an FM bird in LEO is a viable means
of emergency communications is beyond me. And then past that if it was the
"only means left" why anyone would be surprised that the people needing the
comm capability (such as it is) are not going to use whatever ERP it is
going to take to get into the bird is beyond me as well.
Most of the complaints strike me as silly. With the technical limitations
of an FM bird in LEO the notion of expecting anything different then what
exist now is almost tooth fairy like. In the end if FM birds are what the
folks and organizations who build satellites want to launch, this is the
kind of "operating" environment that they are going to encourage. The
argument that "we have to build satellites" that are popular is self
fulfilling.
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO (life member ARRL, AMSAT NARS)
> From: nigel@xxxxx.xxx
> To: w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:44:21 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [AMSAT-BB] ISS, what the heck happened?
To: <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <pisymbol@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W51E01C160EE1588FE1EA1BD6570@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bob. The odds of getting a "real ham" are pretty small in my view. There
will be the occasional person who is either interested in the effort pre
launch or gets that way due to circumstances aboard the station, but that's
going to be rare particularly as long as the folks doing the flying are
"NASA employees".
What I would hope for more is a real ham setup on ISS. something other then
a digi or a psuedo FM bird. A real transponder would be nice.
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO (Life member AMSAT ARRL NARS)
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:47:31 +0000
> From: w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx
> To: pisymbol@xxxxx.xxx
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: [AMSAT-BB] ISS, what the heck happened?
>
>
>
> This may open a can of worms-However, I'd like to see a "real" ham on the
ISS. We all know what that means. Granted they all take the tech license
to be "official" amateur radio operators. However we don't see the
"passion" in the belly to get on the air. There have been a few up there
that had that and it was noticable.
>
> 73 Bob W7LRD
>
> Seattle
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Alexander Sack" <pisymbol@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:08:17 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] [AMSAT-BB] ISS, what the heck happened?
>
> So I think everyone read the announcement ARRL made before FD. Now
> that FD weekend is at an end, can someone explain to me why NASA
> couldn't let the astronauts have 10 minutes on the radio for one pass?
> I mean were they having issues with the radio itself?
>
> I still don'c failure (I mean I couldn't even
> hear the digipeater at times).
>
> -aps (KC2ZSX)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:24:12 -0500
From: R Oler <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: <pagreen@xxxxx.xxx>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W1040A4BAB5763D4779BCCDD6570@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
How would you enforce it? Robert G. Oler WB5MZO (life member AMSAT ARRL NARS)
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:48:48 -0500
> From: pagreen@xxxxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> The ARRL should impose an ERP limit for satellite contacts. That
> would solve the problem. I don't see how running amplifiers on FD is
> in the spirit of what FD is all about. I've made contacts using 50 mw
> so why do stations use 100+ watts *before* the antenna.. I wouldn't
> want my kids playing around a FD site with this time of setup.
>
> 73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:40:19 -0500
From: Ben Napper <kc0pcq@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=qfO9+OOiR06PkJ56abjF-RZ1m3A@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Uh Oh... East Coast/West Coast... FIGHT!!! :) (Just kidding)
I managed to make my contact from the Kansas City area on the 4am pass on
SO-50 (as NX0U). Still a bit chaotic, but I did 'cheat' by leaving my
handheld plugged into external power to be a full 5w out. :)
KC0PCQ
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Clint Bradford <clintbradford@xxx.xxx>wrote:
> >> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi
> contacts ...
>
> I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean,
> we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest number
> of hams compared to anym!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:02:08 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4E092810.3030500@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
some one is gonna get capped!
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 6/27/2011 11:40 AM, Ben Napper wrote:
> Uh Oh... East Coast/West Coast... FIGHT!!! :) (Just kidding)
>
> I managed to make my contact from the Kansas City area on the 4am pass on
> SO-50 (as NX0U). Still a bit chaotic, but I did 'cheat' by leaving my
> handheld plugged into external power to be a full 5w out. :)
>
> KC0PCQ
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Clint
Bradford<clintbradford@xxx.xxx>wrote:
>
>>>> ... There were too many ops making what sounded like HI POWER multi
>> contacts ...
>>
>> I am quite proud of how stations acted out here on the West Coast. I mean,
>> we have the largest potential for problems, since we have the largest
number
>> of hams compared to anywhere else in the U.S. Yes, the FM birds were busy
>> ... and I even could call one particular pass a little chaotic (grin) ...
>> but, overall, common sense and reasonable operating techniques prevailed.
>>
>> Clint Bradford, K6LCS
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce Paige <kk5do@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: Tim Cunningham <tim_cunningham@xxxxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <105939.44811.qm@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I can handle that... next year it will be "2012 AMSAT Field Day Emergency
Preparedness"
73...bruce
________________________________
From: Tim Cunningham <tim_cunningham@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:49:06 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read
the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "STeve Andre'" <andres@xxx.xxx>
Cc: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the
scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' <andres@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as
> such.
> My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was
> only
> later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
> really wasn't one.
>
> All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
> Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
> summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
> way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
>
> I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
> offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
> speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
> those of rovers.
>
> --STeve Andre'
> wb8wsf en72
>
> On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> > A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> > your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> > FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
> >
> > On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> >> I think we have to let go of the mantra that ?any use of the bandwidth
> is good use? with respect to ?encouraging more satellite activity?. Wasn?t
> that the original intent of the ?100 point bonus? items? To encourage
> specific activities ? traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 01:28:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bob- W7LRD <w7lrd@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How to get started on SSB birds (antennas)
To: Joe Krepps <occupant@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<1289848085.224304.1309224534568.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxx
xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
About the only time I need the flame thrower antenna and/or pre amp is when
I'm trying to stretch the AO-7 foot print to get to OH8MBN from Seattle.?
Other than that? a short yagi and low power is very adaquate for LEO's
73 Bob W7LRD
Seattle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Krepps" <occupant@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 5:02:55 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How to get started on SSB birds (antennas)
All,
I appreciate that this topic has been brought up (especially _after_ FD, ?
HiHi!!).
If I may inject a question: for the seriously budget minded, is there any ?
value to building a "better antenna" (i.e. more elements for improved ?
gain) versus adding a pre-amp? I realize a higher gain antenna will be ?
more sensitive to positioning/aiming and, unless I go the U-110 rotator ?
route, I won't be doing much elevation adjustment.
I'll be using either my current FT-817ND or an eBay all mode 2m ?
transciever, for AO-7. In Mode A, rx with the FT-817ND & tx with a "well ?
loved" 2m all mode. In Mode B, rx with the 2m all mode and Tx with the ?
FT-817ND. Of course, dialing the power down as often as practical!
(Now, I kinda' wish I could have held onto my old IC-820H, Yaesu Az/El ?
rotators and "Oscar link" crossed yagis...but I needed $$ at the time. ?
Now, I'm married so, by definition, I'm broke. HiHi!)
I appreciate ALL the wisdom shared so far! :)
Mny tnx & 73!
Joe WB3CFN
P.S. I _do_ have an Arrow but not sure how suitable it is for continuous ?
outdoor use.
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:49:00 -0700
From: Don Ferguson <kd6irexx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] subscribe
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000801cc353d$ef5a9530$ce0fbf90$@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
subscribe
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:52:50 -0500
From: "Tim Cunningham" <tim_cunningham@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <B2FE9B590E834BBF8E235CF94E2AEB59@xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Excellent!
Now let's move to the next step of business and address the true "FD Mess"
that comes around every year.
The focus is around the FM satellite chaos. Several of us know the when,
where, and why the 1 QSO limit was imposed.
What I would like to see happen to address this issue is look at the real
statistics, before and after the institution of this ruling for the 1 QSO
limit. Look at the data and determine how many more QSO's were made before
this ruling when a Net Control style of operation took place. If you need
help I can provide the hit rate from our Field Day data way back when. It is
bigger than many might realize. This type of operation brought about the
same level of comment at the time, but I think we overlooked the benefit due
to all the rants. With a 1 QSO point credit limit, we removed the fact that
somebody could monopolize and run up their point count. Thus, the 1 QSO
limit achieved its goal. This issue is that it went too far and promoted
chaos.
The reason for this investigation applies directly to the new title you are
suggesting for the AMSAT event titled "2012 AMSAT Field Day Emergency
Preparedness". In the original intent of Field Day it is only reasonable to
pull away from this title that we are communicators finding ways to
communicate effectively and efficiently. That being the case I think you
will find that that a reasonable net control operation on an FM satellite
may yield the most completed 2-way QSO's than letting chaos reign. The ARRL
even promotes nets for a reason! We have let chaos reign far too long when
some may recall when a net control style of operation yielded the most
complete 2-way QSO's. Decipher the data and let the data speak for itself.
We ran an experiment many years ago on an FM satellite during Field Day that
brought on this ruling and we know that a net control style of operation is
the only way to command control and bring more orderly operation than a free
for all. The current rule!
on an FM satellite does not promote the style of operation that would
normally be conducted under emergency preparedness condition. We can change
this and it has been proven that a Net Control style of operation can
increase the QSO count. I cannot help but remember listening in frustration
years ago when people were calling aimlessly on an FM satellite during Field
Day and very few were making 2-way exchanges. We could not stand it! Our
station got on the air a few passes and became a target in a Net Style
operation and stations were calling the target and we dished out QSO's to
many station when nothing was being accomplished at the time. It brought
order to chaos and QSO's were being made quickly. The operation was not
about the points, but it was all about communicating. However, the aftermath
of this specific operation created the great FM satellite rift.
It is time to move forward and change the course of chaos.
My suggestion is to allow a Net Control type of operation. Let us say you
make 5, 10 or more sequential QSO's and pass it off to another station who
can capture and command the satellite, if there is one. Efficiency is
improved when there is a target. I guess my only point here is that doing
nothing will change nothing. We still have the 1 QSO limit so nobody has to
worry about a monopoly or somebody running up there point total. I would do
it and not claim a QSO point if needed in order to see it changed for the
better. When somebody hears a target station they will call it and/or the
target station can respond to those calling. This operation clearly netted
the most QSO's being made at a specific time in history. It also clears
traffic on the satellite faster when stations get their 100 bonus points for
the ARRL event or 1 point for the AMSAT event. At this point the other
station is dancing in the field bragging about their contact plus they would
not get any additional c!
redit even if they made another contact anyway. Disallowing a net style or
control point for multiple contacts on an FM satellite only promotes chaos.
This is my point and a suggestion for the box.
?
Thank you for your interest and sincerity in advance,
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Paige
To: Tim Cunningham ; amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
I can handle that... next year it will be "2012 AMSAT Field Day Emergency
Preparedness"
73...bruce
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tim Cunningham <tim_cunningham@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:49:06 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read
the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "STeve Andre'" <andres@xxx.xxx>
Cc: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the
scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' <andres@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as
> such.
> My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was
> only
> later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it
> really wasn't one.
>
> All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff.
> Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the
> summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great
> way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
>
> I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and
> offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and
> speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially
> those of rovers.
>
> --STeve Andre'
> wb8wsf en72
>
> On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
> > A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> > your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> > FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
> >
> > On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
> >> I think we have to let go of the mantra that ?any use of the bandwidth
> is good use? with respect to ?encouraging more satellite activity?.
Wasn?t
> that the original intent of the ?100 point bonus? items? To encourage
> specific activities ? traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
> >>
> >
>
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:10:28 -0700
From: "Art McBride" <kc6uqh@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
To: "'R Oler'" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>,
<w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: 'Amsat BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <3C1C5BBB62F14168A639745D914872AA@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Robert,
One or two contacts during an emergency could be life or death to someone.
The contact that gets through at the right time is the only one that counts.
FO 29 and VO52 are so lightly populated that you most always hear yourself
and on one else. But on Field Day there is blood in the water and the sharks
are feeding!
Art,KC6UQH
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of R Oler
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:40 AM
To: nigel@xxxxx.xxxx w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx
Cc: Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Exactly. Why anyone would think that an FM bird in LEO is a viable means
of emergency communications is beyond me. And then past that if it was the
"only means left" why anyone would be surprised that the people needing the
comm capability (such as it is) are not going to use whatever ERP it is
going to take to get into the bird is beyond me as well.
Most of the complaints strike me as silly. With the technical limitations
of an FM bird in LEO the notion of expecting anything different then what
exist now is almost tooth fairy like. In the end if FM birds are what the
folks and organizations who build satellites want to launch, this is the
kind of "operating" environment that they are going to encourage. The
argument that "we have to build satellites" that are popular is self
fulfilling.
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO (life member ARRL, AMSAT NARS)
> From: nigel@xxxxx.xxx
> To: w1pa@xxxxxxx.xxx
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
>
> A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate
> your emergency comms ability to Joe Public.
> FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 6, Issue 347
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