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CX2SA > SATDIG 13.12.10 03:55l 994 Lines 31923 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: LF Satellite ideas? 160m? (Trevor .)
2. Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF) (Trevor .)
3. Re: LF Satellite ideas? 160m? (John Magliacane)
4. Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
(W4ART Arthur Feller)
5. Re: timing (Erich Eichmann)
6. Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF) (Trevor .)
7. Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF) (Joe)
8. Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF) (Rocky Jones)
9. Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
(W4ART Arthur Feller)
10. Dual Yaesu Rigs on SatPC32 (Howard Kowall)
11. Re: Dual Yaesu Rigs on SatPC32 (Howard Kowall)
12. Re: LF Satellite ideas? (G. Beat)
13. Re: LF Satellite ideas? (G. Beat)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 20:03:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LF Satellite ideas? 160m?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <950110.57430.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
--- On Sun, 12/12/10, Bob Bruninga <bruninga@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> So if we can hear a 1W amsat on 2m, then we should be able
> to hear a 1 milliwatt transmitter on 160m with 20 dB
> stronger signal! (Of course noise level can easily be 20 dB
> stronger?)
Bear in mind there are no Amateur Satellite Service allocations below 7 MHz
so TX may be out of the question but a Rx experiment on 160m is a different
matter.
Good Luck
Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 20:37:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <524615.52543.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
IARU has been successfull in obtaining new global Amateur Service
allocations such as 135 kHz and 7.1-7.2 kHz, however, the Amateur Satellite
Service seems to have been forgotten. 7.0-7.1 is okay for sats but 7.1-7.2
isn't, Why? is the question that has to be asked.
Currently IARU is attempting to get an Amateur Service allocation at 500kHz
- should they also be getting that band for the Amateur Satellite Service as
well ?
Given the significant input of the ARRL into IARU perhaps amsat-bb members
in NA could remind ARRL that, where possible, new Amateur allocations should
be obtained for BOTH the Amateur and Amateur Satellite Services not just the
Amateur Service.
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 13:03:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John Magliacane <kd2bd@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LF Satellite ideas? 160m?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <268071.30728.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Bob.
> Drats. Bad news.. Good news!
I don't think the ionosphere will allow 160 meter downlink propagation... on
a regular basis, at least.
UoSAT-OSCAR-9 carried HF beacons on 7, 14, 21, and 28 MHz, and if I recall
correctly, the only beacon never heard was the one on 7 MHz.
So, receiving might be more beneficial than transmitting. It might prove
interesting to have the satellite generate a spectrogram of received signals
in the form of a GIF image that could be downloaded from the satellite,
thereby eliminating the requirement that the receiver's input be within a
satellite sub-band. ;-)
A spectrogram plot covering a whole orbit might also prove to be very
interesting. It might answer questions such as: Can sferics from lightning
be received outside the ionosphere? What does the VLF spectrum look like
over the poles vs. the rest of the globe? How does solar activity and
auroras effect VLF energy above the ionosphere? Can energy from the 50/60
Hz power grid be received in space?
73, de John, KD2BD
--
Visit John on the Web at:
http://kd2bd.ham.org/
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:18:31 -0500
From: W4ART Arthur Feller <afeller@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
To: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <3E6EFDEB-5BF3-4289-B8C8-2B4FBBCC4BCE@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Tevor!
The general principle is that the amateur-satellite service has frequency
allocations in bands where the amateur service has frequency allocations in
all three ITU regions. The only exceptions are in the bands 1260-1270 MHz
and 5650-5670 MHz, which are limited to the Earth-to-space direction, and
3400-3410 MHz, which are available in Regions 2 and 3. See RR 5.282.
In Region 2, the band 7100-7200 kHz was reallocated effective 29 MAR 2009.
See: RR 5.142.
Until 29 March 2009, the use of the band 7100-7300 kHz in Region 2 by the
amateur service shall not impose constraints on the broadcasting service
intended for use within Region 1 and Region 3. After 29 March 2009 the use
of the band 7200-7300 kHz in Region 2 by the amateur service shall not
impose constraints on the broadcasting service intended for use within
Region 1 and Region 3. RR 5.142.
But, this is only in Region 2. So, until broadcasters vacate 7100-7200 in
regions 1 and 3, the amateur-satellite service won't have a frequency
allocation.
Make sense??
73, art.....
W4ART Arlington VA
On 12-Dec-2010, at 03:37 PM, Trevor . wrote:
> IARU has been successfull in obtaining new global Amateur Service
allocations such as 135 kHz and 7.1-7.2 kHz, however, the Amateur Satellite
Service seems to have been forgotten. 7.0-7.1 is okay for sats but 7.1-7.2
isn't, Why? is the question that has to be asked.
>
> Currently IARU is attempting to get an Amateur Service allocation at
500kHz - should they also be getting that band for the Amateur Satellite
Service as well ?
>
> Given the significant input of the ARRL into IARU perhaps amsat-bb members
in NA could remind ARRL that, where possible, new Amateur allocations should
be obtained for BOTH the Amateur and Amateur Satellite Services not just the
Amateur Service.
>
> 73 Trevor M5AKA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Nullum gratuitum prandium.
http://afeller.us
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 22:22:44 +0100
From: "Erich Eichmann" <erich.eichmann@xxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: timing
To: "Jack Barbera" <barberaalderwood@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <DC438AC7D389437FA15BCAB9BD039EDD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Jack,
please read the WinAOS help file that can opened with the WinAOS "Help"
menu.
In the SatPC32 environment WinAOS uses (by default) the same Keps file as
SatPC32. So, when you update that Keps file for SatPC32 WinAOS will
automatcally use the updated Keps.
When you run WinAOS "stand allone" you can download Keps files, for example
nasa.all, with your browser. You will see some download addresses in the
SatPC32 "Download Keps" window. In menu "Satellites" click on "Update Keps"
to open that window. In your browser open the file as (ascii) text file
with, e.g., Wordpad and save it in that format.
To choose a Keps file for WinAOS open menu "File" and navigate to the folder
that contains the file. The path and filename will then be saved for later
program starts.
With WinAOS you can not specify the altitude of your location. The program
gives a quick overview over the rising and setting times. For that purpose
the accuracy is fully sufficient.
73s, Erich, DK1TB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Barbera" <barberaalderwood@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "Amsat Reflector" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 8:04 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] timing
Thanks everyone for getting back to me! I did go thru and check the settings
for
both program and they look good. There are two areas that could be the
culprits
,if the WinAos is a sperate program how do I up date the keps? the second
area
is that I am 205 mtrs about sea level and could not find where to set in the
WinAos program if it is necessary/.
thanks for any help Jack WA1ZDV
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 22:06:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <967008.19570.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Art,
Thanks for the reply.
--- On Sun, 12/12/10, W4ART Arthur Feller <afeller@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> The general principle is that the amateur-satellite service has
> frequency allocations in bands where the amateur service has frequency
> allocations in all three ITU regions. ?
I'm not so sure that's so.
The amount of new Amateur Satellite Service spectrum allocated by ITU since
the mid 1970's is ZERO but the Amateur Service world-wide has gained spectrum.
> The only exceptions are in the bands 1260-1270 MHz and 5650-5670 MHz,
> which are limited to the Earth-to-space direction, and 3400-3410 MHz,
> which are available in Regions 2 and 3. ?See RR 5.282.
As you say back in the 70's 1260 and 5650 MHz were made Earth to Space only.
Does anyone know why this restriction was put in place ? Or even if the
reason for this restriction still applies 35 years later ?
> So, until broadcasters vacate 7100-7200 in Regions 1 and 3, the
> amateur-satellite service won't have a frequency allocation.
> Make sense??
No, an Amateur Satellite Service allocation at 7.1-7.2MHz is not on the
agenda for the next WRC in 2012 and currently IARU has no plans to ever ask
for one! See IARU spectrum requirements at:
http://www.iaru.org/ac-09spec.pdf
In it's entire history the IARU has not gained any ITU Primary Amateur
Satellite allocations in the bands above 146 MHz. We have no Primary
allocations above 146MHz until you get to 24GHz.
While it is encouraging to see that IARU would like to see Amateur Satellite
Service allocations at 50MHz and 3400MHz there are no other proposed Amateur
Satellite Service allocations on its agenda.
The ARRL is by far the largest financial donor to IARU and so carries the
most clout.
If ARRL isn't persuaded of the need for additional Amateur Satellite Service
allocations they won't happen.
73 Trevor M5AKA
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 18:06:53 -0600
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4D05639D.2050906@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Plus if it's listening to 135KHz and re transmitting what it hears on 2
or 70cm, it isn't transmitting on 135 so what part is not legal?
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 12/12/2010 2:37 PM, Trevor . wrote:
> IARU has been successfull in obtaining new global Amateur Service
allocations such as 135 kHz and 7.1-7.2 kHz, however, the Amateur Satellite
Service seems to have been forgotten. 7.0-7.1 is okay for sats but 7.1-7.2
isn't, Why? is the question that has to be asked.
>
> Currently IARU is attempting to get an Amateur Service allocation at
500kHz - should they also be getting that band for the Amateur Satellite
Service as well ?
>
> Given the significant input of the ARRL into IARU perhaps amsat-bb members
in NA could remind ARRL that, where possible, new Amateur allocations should
be obtained for BOTH the Amateur and Amateur Satellite Services not just the
Amateur Service.
>
> 73 Trevor M5AKA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:17:18 -0600
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
To: <afeller@xxxx.xxx>, <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W53E0CFC6476F120A0892F1D6110@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Art..one of the best explanations I have read of the allocations. FB
Robert WB5MZO Life member Amsat ARRL
> From: afeller@xxxx.xxx
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:18:31 -0500
> To: m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
>
> Hi, Tevor!
>
> The general principle is that the amateur-satellite service has frequency
allocations in bands where the amateur service has frequency allocations in
all three ITU regions. The only exceptions are in the bands 1260-1270 MHz
and 5650-5670 MHz, which are limited to the Earth-to-space direction, and
3400-3410 MHz, which are available in Regions 2 and 3. See RR 5.282.
>
> In Region 2, the band 7100-7200 kHz was reallocated effective 29 MAR 2009.
See: RR 5.142.
>
> Until 29 March 2009, the use of the band 7100-7300 kHz in Region 2 by the
amateur service shall not impose constraints on the broadcasting service
intended for use within Region 1 and Region 3. After 29 March 2009 the use
of the band 7200-7300 kHz in Region 2 by the amateur service shall not
impose constraints on the broadcasting service intended for use within
Region 1 and Region 3. RR 5.142.
>
> But, this is only in Region 2. So, until broadcasters vacate 7100-7200 in
regions 1 and 3, the amateur-satellite service won't have a frequency
allocation.
>
> Make sense??
>
> 73, art.....
> W4ART Arlington VA
>
> On 12-Dec-2010, at 03:37 PM, Trevor . wrote:
>
> > IARU has been successfull in obtaining new global Amateur Service
allocations such as 135 kHz and 7.1-7.2 kHz, however, the Amateur Satellite
Service seems to have been forgotten. 7.0-7.1 is okay for sats but 7.1-7.2
isn't, Why? is the question that has to be asked.
> >
> > Currently IARU is attempting to get an Amateur Service allocation at
500kHz - should they also be getting that band for the Amateur Satellite
Service as well ?
> >
> > Given the significant input of the ARRL into IARU perhaps amsat-bb
members in NA could remind ARRL that, where possible, new Amateur
allocations should be obtained for BOTH the Amateur and Amateur Satellite
Services not just the Amateur Service.
> >
> > 73 Trevor M5AKA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
> Nullum gratuitum prandium.
>
>
> http://afeller.us
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 17:43:29 -0500
From: W4ART Arthur Feller <afeller@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amateur Satellite Frequency Allocations (LF)
To: "Trevor ." <m5aka@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <62BA50E1-B139-421B-9F3D-F4688CC3D1FF@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Trevor!!
On 12-Dec-2010, at 05:06 PM, Trevor . wrote:
> Hi Art,
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> --- On Sun, 12/12/10, W4ART Arthur Feller <afeller@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> The general principle is that the amateur-satellite service has
>> frequency allocations in bands where the amateur service has frequency
>> allocations in all three ITU regions.
>
> I'm not so sure that's so.
Indeed it is. If a copy of the RR's isn't on hand, suggest clicking here
and read the annex with a table of frequencies allocated to the amateur and
amateur-satellite services.
> The amount of new Amateur Satellite Service spectrum allocated by ITU
since the mid 1970's is ZERO but the Amateur Service world-wide has gained
spectrum.
Actually, major changes were made in conjunction with the 1979 General World
Administrative Radio Conference. Many of the current allocations were
adopted in the Final Acts of the 1979 GWARC.
>> The only exceptions are in the bands 1260-1270 MHz and 5650-5670 MHz,
>> which are limited to the Earth-to-space direction, and 3400-3410 MHz,
>> which are available in Regions 2 and 3. See RR 5.282.
>
> As you say back in the 70's 1260 and 5650 MHz were made Earth to Space
only. Does anyone know why this restriction was put in place ? Or even if
the reason for this restriction still applies 35 years later ?
The footnote was applied in at the 1979 GWARC. I believe the reason is that
administrations in Regions 1 and 3 would not agree to the amateur-satellite
service in the space-to-Earth direction.
>> So, until broadcasters vacate 7100-7200 in Regions 1 and 3, the
>> amateur-satellite service won't have a frequency allocation.
>> Make sense??
>
> No, an Amateur Satellite Service allocation at 7.1-7.2MHz is not on the
agenda for the next WRC in 2012 and currently IARU has no plans to ever ask
for one! See IARU spectrum requirements at:
> http://www.iaru.org/ac-09spec.pdf
Exactly. But, "no plans to ever ask" is a very long time. As explained,
until the broadcasting service vacates the band in Regions 1 and 3, the
amateur-satellite service likely will not go in there. Given the
interference from long distance propagation common at 7100 kHz, it's highly
unlikely that the amateur-satellite service will get an allocation in Region
2 until all the broadcasting stations vacate, which cannot happen until some
future World Radiocommunication Conference.
> In it's entire history the IARU has not gained any ITU Primary Amateur
Satellite allocations in the bands above 146 MHz. We have no Primary
allocations above 146MHz until you get to 24GHz.
Also true. But, we have very good sharing arrangements with the
radiolocation service in many of these bands. Given the monetary value
ascribed to these bands, we probably have a very, very good arrangement,
indeed!
> While it is encouraging to see that IARU would like to see Amateur
Satellite Service allocations at 50MHz and 3400MHz there are no other
proposed Amateur Satellite Service allocations on its agenda.
>
> The ARRL is by far the largest financial donor to IARU and so carries the
most clout.
>
> If ARRL isn't persuaded of the need for additional Amateur Satellite
Service allocations they won't happen.
Trevor, there's a huge difference between being persuaded of the need for an
allocation and the political, diplomatic, engineering, legal, and financial
aspects of making it happen. World radio frequency management is quite
difficult and, most assuredly, NOT for the feint of heart.
I hope this helps.
73, art.....
W4ART Arlington VA
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
- Daniel Patrick Moynihan
http://afeller.us
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 18:54:18 -0600
From: "Howard Kowall" <hkowall@xxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dual Yaesu Rigs on SatPC32
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000801cb9a60$45af10b0$6801a8c0@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello to all
Trying to cal my dual rig control on SatPC32 V12.8a
I adjust the receive cat till I hear my voice proper aprox -1.3 kHz on FO29
I reset it to 0 then adjust the cat for transmitter to +1.3kHz
I click change/store data file button,then click uplink cal button
I restart SatPC32 and try again on FO29 now I am out aprox -2.6khz
Anyone else had any Issues,I read the Doppler.sqf file and the math is correct
Hmm
Thanks all who read and reply
Howard
VE4ISP
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 19:09:59 -0600
From: "Howard Kowall" <hkowall@xxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Dual Yaesu Rigs on SatPC32
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <002c01cb9a62$76e3bc60$6801a8c0@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Sorry the rigs I am using are the following
FT817ND VHF / Ft897D UHF
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Kowall" <hkowall@xxxx.xx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 6:54 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Dual Yaesu Rigs on SatPC32
> Hello to all
> Trying to cal my dual rig control on SatPC32 V12.8a
> I adjust the receive cat till I hear my voice proper aprox -1.3 kHz on
> FO29
> I reset it to 0 then adjust the cat for transmitter to +1.3kHz
> I click change/store data file button,then click uplink cal button
> I restart SatPC32 and try again on FO29 now I am out aprox -2.6khz
> Anyone else had any Issues,I read the Doppler.sqf file and the math is
> correct
> Hmm
> Thanks all who read and reply
> Howard
> VE4ISP
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 01:23:44 +0000 (UTC)
From: "G. Beat" <gregory.beat@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LF Satellite ideas?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<1989980761.632065.1292203424298.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxx
xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Bob -
I apoligize for the tardinesss of reply to your query.
December is?a?busy time for me?with projects finishing and planning for
2011?projects.
I would suggest the?University of Alaska's work with Red Sprites and Blue
Jets.
http://elf.gi.alaska.edu/
What are Red Sprites and Blue Jets?
Red sprites and blue jets are upper atmospheric optical phenomena associated
with thunderstorms that have only recently been documented using low light
level television technology.
The first images of a sprite were accidently obtained in 1989 (Franz et al.
, 1990).
Beginning in 1990, about twenty images have been obtained from the space
shuttle (Vaughan et al. , 1992; Boeck et al. , 1994).
Since then, video sequences of well over a thousand sprites have been
captured.
These include measurements from the ground ( Lyons, 1994; Winckler, 1995)
and from aircraft (Sentman and Wescott, 1993; Sentman et al. , 1995 ).
Numerous images have also been obtained from aircraft of blue jets ( Wescott
et al. , 1995 ), also a previously unrecorded form of optical activity above
thunderstorms.
Blue jets appear to emerge directly from the tops of clouds and shoot upward
in narrow cones through the stratosphere.
Their upward speed has been measured to be about 100 km per second.
Anecdotal reports of "rocket-like" and other optical emissions above
thunderstorms go back more than a century (Lyons, 1994),
and there have been several pilot reports of similar phenomena (Vaughan and
Vonnegut, 1989).
Possibly associated gamma ray bursts and TIPPS have also recently reported.
Together, these phenomena suggest that thunderstorms exert a much greater
influence on the middle and upper atmospheres than was previously suspected.
====
Specific to your VLF capabilities on this satellite ......
Look at the 1997 PhD disseration?by Steve Cummer submitted to the Department
of Electrical Engineering
at Stanford University: ? Lightning and Ionospheric Remote Sensing Using
VLF/ELF Radio Atmospherics
http://www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/publications/theses/cummerthesis.pdf
at Stanford University: ? Lightning and Ionospheric Remote Sensing Using
VLF/ELF Radio Atmospherics
http://www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/publications/theses/cummerthesis.pdf
This research was supported by the Office of Naval Research through grants
N00014-93-1-1201 and N00014-95-1-1095,
by the Air Force Office of Scientific Research through grant
F49620-97-1-0468, and by the Air Force Phillips Laboratory through grant
F19628-96-C-0149.
====
That should get you started Bob.
Greg
w9gb
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 14:13:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ?LF Satellite ideas?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20101211141333.AGV57516@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is 137 KHz possible from space?
Our next Cubesat will have a 1100 meter long antenna (think tether
satellite). ?It will ultimatelly be an electrodynamic tether but the first
one will have NO ACTIVE ELECTRONICS connected to the tether.
So I have asked them to make it 1100m long instead of a generic 1km tether
to try to make it resonant in an amateur band. ?THe path loss at 137 KHz is
60 dB LESS than it is at 2 meters, so it shouldn't take much to communicate
with an 1100m long antenna.
I'm sorry I didnt think of this sooner, but I need a real SCIENCE
justification for this. ?Maybe LF that low will never punch through the
ionosphere, or maybe it will be completely absorbed. ?Can give good science
on this idea?
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 14:13:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ?LF Satellite ideas?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20101211141333.AGV57516@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is 137 KHz possible from space?
Our next Cubesat will have a 1100 meter long antenna (think tether
satellite). ?It will ultimatelly be an electrodynamic tether but the first
one will have NO ACTIVE ELECTRONICS connected to the tether.
So I have asked them to make it 1100m long instead of a generic 1km tether
to try to make it resonant in an amateur band. ?THe path loss at 137 KHz is
60 dB LESS than it is at 2 meters, so it shouldn't take much to communicate
with an 1100m long antenna.
I'm sorry I didnt think of this sooner, but I need a real SCIENCE
justification for this. ?Maybe LF that low will never punch through the
ionosphere, or maybe it will be completely absorbed. ?Can give good science
on this idea?
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 01:48:21 +0000 (UTC)
From: "G. Beat" <gregory.beat@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LF Satellite ideas?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<287558607.633257.1292204901843.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxx
xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Stanford University's VLF Research Group
http://vlf.stanford.edu/research
The Stanford University?VLF?Group investigates the Earth's electrical
environment, its upper atmosphere, lightning discharges, radiation belts,
and the ionized regions of upper atmosphere known as the ionosphere and
magnetosphere.
Much of our work involves the use of very low frequency (VLF)
electromagnetic waves which are generated by lightning discharges, by
man-made transmitters and by energetic radiation belt electrons.
We investigate the generation of these waves and the manner in which they
propagate in and scatter from various regions of the upper atmosphere.
We use?VLF?waves as diagnostic tools to investigate physical processes in
the Earth's plasma environment.
Under the direction of? Professor?Umran?Inan , the?VLF?group carries out
extensive observational programs at multiple sites around the world and on
satellites.
In addition, extensive theoretical modeling and interpretation work is
carried out, on quantitative modeling of high-altitude optical emissions
known as sprites, blue jets, and elves, on modeling the propagation and
scattering of electromagnetic waves in the Earth-ionosphere?waveguide, and
on other related electromagnetic wave and plasma physics problems.
VLF Data
http://vlf.stanford.edu/vlfdata/
===
w9gb
----- Original Message -----
From: "G. Beat" <gregory.beat@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 7:23:44 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ?LF Satellite ideas?
====
Specific to your VLF capabilities on this satellite ......
Look at the 1997 PhD disseration?by Steve Cummer submitted to the Department
of Electrical Engineering
at Stanford University: ? Lightning and Ionospheric Remote Sensing Using
VLF/ELF Radio Atmospherics
http://www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/publications/theses/cummerthesis.pdf
at Stanford University: ? Lightning and Ionospheric Remote Sensing Using
VLF/ELF Radio Atmospherics
http://www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/publications/theses/cummerthesis.pdf
This research was supported by the Office of Naval Research through grants
N00014-93-1-1201 and N00014-95-1-1095,
by the Air Force Office of Scientific Research through grant
F49620-97-1-0468, and by the Air Force Phillips Laboratory through grant
F19628-96-C-0149.
====
That should get you started Bob.
Greg
w9gb
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 14:13:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ?LF Satellite ideas?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20101211141333.AGV57516@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is 137 KHz possible from space?
Our next Cubesat will have a 1100 meter long antenna (think tether
satellite). ?It will ultimatelly be an electrodynamic tether but the first
one will have NO ACTIVE ELECTRONICS connected to the tether.
So I have asked them to make it 1100m long instead of a generic 1km tether
to try to make it resonant in an amateur band. ?THe path loss at 137 KHz is
60 dB LESS than it is at 2 meters, so it shouldn't take much to communicate
with an 1100m long antenna.
I'm sorry I didnt think of this sooner, but I need a real SCIENCE
justification for this. ?Maybe LF that low will never punch through the
ionosphere, or maybe it will be completely absorbed. ?Can give good science
on this idea?
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 14:13:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ?LF Satellite ideas?
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20101211141333.AGV57516@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is 137 KHz possible from space?
Our next Cubesat will have a 1100 meter long antenna (think tether
satellite). ?It will ultimatelly be an electrodynamic tether but the first
one will have NO ACTIVE ELECTRONICS connected to the tether.
So I have asked them to make it 1100m long instead of a generic 1km tether
to try to make it resonant in an amateur band. ?THe path loss at 137 KHz is
60 dB LESS than it is at 2 meters, so it shouldn't take much to communicate
with an 1100m long antenna.
I'm sorry I didnt think of this sooner, but I need a real SCIENCE
justification for this. ?Maybe LF that low will never punch through the
ionosphere, or maybe it will be completely absorbed. ?Can give good science
on this idea?
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 5, Issue 490
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