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CX2SA > SATDIG 27.05.10 20:20l 668 Lines 23814 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 100527/1905Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:62300 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB5239
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. W1AW/5 at NM TI (Mark Spencer)
2. DN81-82 update (Rodney Waln)
3. AO-51 status update (Andrew Glasbrenner)
4. PJ2/N4QQ active tomorrow (Andrew Glasbrenner)
5. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
(Auke de Jong, VE6PWN)
6. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance (Greg D.)
7. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance (Auke de Jong)
8. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance (Bill Jones)
9. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
(Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF)
10. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance (Bill Jones)
11. Tracking X-37B In Real Time (B J)
12. Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance (Edward R Cole)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:18:39 -0600
From: "Mark Spencer" <mspencer@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] W1AW/5 at NM TI
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, "'W1AW'" <W1AW@xxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <20100526231840.F3E6655C9A7@xxxxxxxxxxx.x.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hey Guys, thanks for sticking it out through my battery failures and time
zone changes and helping make the satellite demonstration for the 13
teachers participating in the teachers institute at the New Mexico Military
Institute! The reviews from the teachers were very positive and summed up
with "WOW". If you need a QSL for the contact, just send a card to me at my
call address and I'll take care of a return card from DM73, Roswell, NM.
Thanks,
Mark
Mark Spencer, WA8SME
Education and Technology Program Coordinator
ARRL, the national association for Amateur RadioT
mspencer@xxxx.xxx
www.arrl.org/education-technology-program
www.arrl.org/teachers-institute-on-wireless-technology
530-495-9150
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rodney Waln <kc0zhf@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] DN81-82 update
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <819041.49657.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
hi all, well it was a weired trip with wind, rain and yes tornado's
i operated 2 passes on AO-51 from DN81-82 grid boundary on US385
south of Alliance Nebraska there is lots of room to operate from on both
sides of the road?
a word of caution,
it is across form an active railroad and BNSF security will be watching
and asking if you are ok, but are nice and accommodating just stay on the
west side of the highway and you will be ok.
?
also not that the south dakota grids did not work out and will be tried later,
thanks to those that worked me and hope i did not mess up any other people
that were giving out grids, if you worked me send e-mail,or hard card with
the info of contact
some use eqsl and that is ok to,
Rodney
kc0zhf
back in dn71?
?
?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 22:15:40 -0400
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 status update
To: Amsat-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, AO51 Modes <ao51-modes@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4BFDD5CC.1000304@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I just wanted to give a little status update on AO-51. We are currently
running just the normal V/U repeater, with PL enabled, and the power
management software running. The power management routine adjusts the
power output in three stages based on illumination state and battery
voltage. Tonight we increased the high setting to 1.57 watts. The mid
setting is at 290 mw, and the low setting is off. During passes over the
eastern US, especially in the morning, we have been collecting telemetry
on the 435.150 transmitter, so users may hear the power levels toggle on
435.300. The rest of the time outside of eclipse it should be pretty
steadily at the high setting. Soon after entering eclipse, if in use,
the transmitter will shut off.
Eclipses continue to lengthen until about July 1, then drop back to zero
by the third week of August. This last period of continuous illumination
will last until January 2011. AO-51 will likely only be operational
while illuminated after this date.
I want to thank Mark Hammond N8MH, Kevin Schuchmann WA6FWF, and Jim
White WD0E for their help with the satellite during this period of
rearranging our operational plan, and learning new tricks to keep AO-51
available as much as possible. We are approaching 6 years in orbit!
73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT-NA VP Operations
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 22:22:42 -0400
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] PJ2/N4QQ active tomorrow
To: Amsat-BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, ans-editor@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4BFDD772.1040302@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
John, N4QQ is in PJ2 (Curacao) for an HF contest this weekend, and has
his Arrow, and the AMSAT DXpedition loaner D7 with him. He plans on
being active on the FM satellites Thursday, Friday, and the following
Monday and Tuesday. No activity is expected over the weekend. John is an
experienced satellite operator, but new to the FM satellites, so please
give him a little room to put a somewhat rare DXCC entity on the air.
Members of other DXpeditions interested in adding satellite operations
to their events should contact me at ko4ma@xxxxx.xxx for information on
our loaner gear.
73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT-NA VP Operations
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 20:31:53 -0600
From: "Auke de Jong, VE6PWN" <sparkycivic@xxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <007201cafd44$c4c811d0$6700a8c0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bostwick" <lihan161051@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:54 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
>> They will need a space fly swatter... More seriously some kind of
>> solution will have to be found to discard useless space debris and
>> junk.
I would venture to guess that we will develop the ability to gather and
deorbit much of the higher-orbit space junk at around the same time that the
junk density reaches a critical level as to become hazardous...provided that
we don't nuke ourselves back into the stone-ages in the meantime! ;)
I wonder if the satellite operators might soon be forced by regulators to
put efforts into developting this ability, just as they are supposed to
provide for end-of-life adjustments to "graveyard" orbit now?
Auke
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 20:09:05 -0700
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W5EAF0BC0C123980DD77A8A9EA0@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ah, I knew it couldn't be so simple. Thanks for the insight into this
aspect of satellite construction and operation.
Greg KO6TH
> From: wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:54 -0400
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
>
>
>
> On 25 May 2010 at 19:36, Greg D. wrote:
>
> >
> > I wonder... Has anyone at SES considered just turning off their
transmitter,
> > while Galaxy-15 crosses their path, and using it instead?
> >
>
> G-15 and AMC-11 are opposite polarity, and most of the AMC-11 transponders
are
> pretty wide, and the main carrier freq of each transponder is right at the
null
> between the transponders on G-15. It should work on narrow signals that
don't
> have carriers at the nulls, but I don't think it would work for most of
the wide
> transponders.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326
::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 23:06:07 -0600
From: "Auke de Jong" <sparkycivic@xxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <001001cafd5a$50f09af0$6700a8c0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
If Galaxy 15's transponders are all of opposite polarities, then wouldn't
the potential interference be cancelled-out by around -60dB due to the
polarisation mis-match on both the uplink and downlink paths?
Auke
----- Original Message -----
>> From: wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:54 -0400
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 May 2010 at 19:36, Greg D. wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I wonder... Has anyone at SES considered just turning off their
>> > transmitter,
>> > while Galaxy-15 crosses their path, and using it instead?
>> >
>>
>> G-15 and AMC-11 are opposite polarity, and most of the AMC-11
>> transponders are
>> pretty wide, and the main carrier freq of each transponder is right at
>> the null
>> between the transponders on G-15. It should work on narrow signals that
>> don't
>> have carriers at the nulls, but I don't think it would work for most of
>> the wide
>> transponders.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
> Hotmail.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326
::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 07:44:30 -0400
From: "Bill Jones" <wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4BFE22DE.1055.44719B@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 26 May 2010 at 23:06, Auke de Jong wrote:
> If Galaxy 15's transponders are all of opposite polarities, then wouldn't
> the potential interference be cancelled-out by around -60dB due to the
> polarisation mis-match on both the uplink and downlink paths?
>
> Auke
I think the transponders on both sats are 36MHz wide, spaced every 40 MHz.
AMC-11
has vertical transponders at 3720, 3760,.....4120,4160 and horizontal from
3740,3780,...4140,4180. There is about a 4 MHz gap between each
transponder, but
I am not sure just how sharp the dropoff of the bands are, and how effective
this
4 MHz gap really is. The Galaxy 15 transponders are at the same places, but
the
vertical are where the AMC11 horizontal are, and visa-versa. For narrower
signals which aren't centered at the transponder center, are within the
bandwidth
of both horizontal and vertical transponders. For example the QVC shopping
channel is an approximately 15 MHz wide vertical signal centered at 3928.
It's on
the 3902-3938 "3920" transponder on AMC-11, but would also almost fit into the
3922-3958 "3940" transponder on Galaxy-15.
Most of AMC-11's transponders however are centered on the nulls between the
Galaxy-15s transponders. I am not at all clear with respect to what this
would do
to the signal. Sort of seems like the 4 MHz gaps would be like a notch filter,
and would be somewhat similar to removing the carrier when generating a SSB
signal. These digital signals look very broad and rectangular in a spectrum
analyzer. Most are 20 or 30 MHz wide, and if you remove a 4 MHz wide segment
from the middle, I assume that it would result in significant distortion,
regardless of whether you leave the AMC-11 transponders on or off, but I
really
don't understand much at all about how removing part of the envelope of a
broad
digital signal like this affects the reception. Since these are mostly QPSK an
8PSK signals, it doesn't take much interference from similar symbol rate
signals
to mess up the reception of these things, particularly because the phases
will be
different from G-15.
Bill Jones N3JLQ
Sweden Maine
wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
303rdBG page
http://www.eskerridge.com/bj/303rdbg/wwii.html
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:19:56 +0000
From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: Bill Jones <wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4BFE636C.5060408@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Where does one find this information?
On 27-May-10 11:44, Bill Jones wrote:
> I think the transponders on both sats are 36MHz wide, spaced every 40 MHz.
AMC-11
> has vertical transponders at 3720, 3760,.....4120,4160 and horizontal from
> 3740,3780,...4140,4180. There is about a 4 MHz gap between each
transponder, but
> I am not sure just how sharp the dropoff of the bands are, and how
effective this
> 4 MHz gap really is. The Galaxy 15 transponders are at the same places,
but the
> vertical are where the AMC11 horizontal are, and visa-versa. For narrower
> signals which aren't centered at the transponder center, are within the
bandwidth
> of both horizontal and vertical transponders. For example the QVC shopping
> channel is an approximately 15 MHz wide vertical signal centered at 3928.
It's on
> the 3902-3938 "3920" transponder on AMC-11, but would also almost fit into
the
> 3922-3958 "3940" transponder on Galaxy-15.
> Most of AMC-11's transponders however are centered on the nulls
between the
> Galaxy-15s transponders. I am not at all clear with respect to what this
would do
> to the signal. Sort of seems like the 4 MHz gaps would be like a notch
filter,
> and would be somewhat similar to removing the carrier when generating a SSB
> signal. These digital signals look very broad and rectangular in a spectrum
> analyzer. Most are 20 or 30 MHz wide, and if you remove a 4 MHz wide
segment
> from the middle, I assume that it would result in significant distortion,
> regardless of whether you leave the AMC-11 transponders on or off, but I
really
> don't understand much at all about how removing part of the envelope of a
broad
> digital signal like this affects the reception. Since these are mostly
QPSK an
> 8PSK signals, it doesn't take much interference from similar symbol rate
signals
> to mess up the reception of these things, particularly because the phases
will be
> different from G-15.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:05:06 -0400
From: "Bill Jones" <wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4BFE35C2.28932.8E3B31@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 27 May 2010 at 12:19, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
> Where does one find this information?
You can find info about the Galaxy sats at
http://www.intelsat.com/_files/network/satellites/Satellite-Guide.pdf
It has footprint info at the beginning, and the transponder layout at the end.
The SES web page doesn't seem to have the transponder info anymore, but it's
pretty much the same except the H/V transponders are reversed, but still 90%
overlapped.
Relative to what signals are on the various sats, try
http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html
AMC-11 link is at bottom right, and the Galaxy-12 is the replacement for
Galaxy-
15. Most sats have more of a mixture of wide and narrow signals, but AMC-11
pretty much has signals that are either 20 or 30 MHz wide, as determined by
the
sample rates. Ie a sample rate of 19510 is approximately 20 MHz wide, a
29270 SR
is about 30 MHz wide.
Bill Jones N3JLQ
Sweden Maine
wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
303rdBG page
http://www.eskerridge.com/bj/303rdbg/wwii.html
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: B J <top_gun_canada@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Tracking X-37B In Real Time
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <607264.3025.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=36514
This site also has pages for several OSCARs.
73s
Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 07:37:59 -0800
From: Edward R Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 'Zombie-sat' and the clever orbital dance
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <201005271538.o4RFc0NM070816@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 03:44 AM 5/27/2010, Bill Jones wrote:
>On 26 May 2010 at 23:06, Auke de Jong wrote:
>
> > If Galaxy 15's transponders are all of opposite polarities, then wouldn't
> > the potential interference be cancelled-out by around -60dB due to the
> > polarisation mis-match on both the uplink and downlink paths?
> >
> > Auke
>
>
>I think the transponders on both sats are 36MHz wide, spaced every
>40 MHz. AMC-11
>has vertical transponders at 3720, 3760,.....4120,4160 and horizontal from
>3740,3780,...4140,4180. There is about a 4 MHz gap between each
>transponder, but
>I am not sure just how sharp the dropoff of the bands are, and how
>effective this
>4 MHz gap really is. The Galaxy 15 transponders are at the same
>places, but the
>vertical are where the AMC11 horizontal are, and visa-versa. For narrower
>signals which aren't centered at the transponder center, are within
>the bandwidth
>of both horizontal and vertical transponders. For example the QVC shopping
>channel is an approximately 15 MHz wide vertical signal centered at
>3928. It's on
>the 3902-3938 "3920" transponder on AMC-11, but would also almost
>fit into the
>3922-3958 "3940" transponder on Galaxy-15.
> Most of AMC-11's transponders however are centered on the nulls
> between the
>Galaxy-15s transponders. I am not at all clear with respect to what
>this would do
>to the signal. Sort of seems like the 4 MHz gaps would be like a
>notch filter,
>and would be somewhat similar to removing the carrier when generating a SSB
>signal. These digital signals look very broad and rectangular in a spectrum
>analyzer. Most are 20 or 30 MHz wide, and if you remove a 4 MHz wide segment
>from the middle, I assume that it would result in significant distortion,
>regardless of whether you leave the AMC-11 transponders on or off,
>but I really
>don't understand much at all about how removing part of the envelope
>of a broad
>digital signal like this affects the reception. Since these are
>mostly QPSK an
>8PSK signals, it doesn't take much interference from similar symbol
>rate signals
>to mess up the reception of these things, particularly because the
>phases will be
>different from G-15.
>
>
>
>
>
>Bill Jones N3JLQ
>Sweden Maine
>wejones@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
>http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
>
>303rdBG page
>http://www.eskerridge.com/bj/303rdbg/wwii.html
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
What I recall from installing c-band dishes in the mid-1980's is
that adjacent satellites were parked in orbit spaced approx. 4
degrees apart. They then polarized even numbered channels 90-degrees
from odd numbered channels. The early satellite receivers had to be
programmed for each satellite and polarity adjusted for best even and
odd channel. If you had polarity off, the receiver could pick up a
transponder (channel) from an adjacent satellite. It would not be
clear but it would show a blurry picture and even sound. Usually,
once you adjusted the polarity and were pointed dead on a satellite
the correct channel for that satellite would be received. In some
cases satellites had inactive channels and there would be bleed-over
from an adjacent channel in the same satellite. Most of these
satellites had individual transponder amplifiers that could be
individually adjusted in power by ground station commands. If you
had a smaller home dish that sometimes meant not all channels would
be received clearly.
However, the polarity angle of one satellite would not be the same as
another so even if they had opposite polarity channel schemes they
might only be 45 or 60-degrees vs 90-degrees. At 45-degrees the
signal is only 3-dB down vs about 20-dB at 90-degrees.
Here in Alaska, the first satellite dishes had to be 14 to 16 foot
for good reception. Initially, only Galaxy-V "Aurora" was available
with two channels: the RATNET (Rural Alaska TV Net) and an
educational net. Most rural schools put up 16-foot dishes to receive
this (my 16-foot eme dish is a surplus one of these). By mid 1980's
commercial home dishes became widely available and new satellites
were launched with enough signal in AK for 10-12 foot dishes. In
1985 HBO was first to scramble (encoded) their programs requiring a
subscription and descrambler box. In the mid-1990's Ku-band
satellite service (Direct-TV, Dish-Net) became available but not for
HI or AK. But enterprising AK dealers offered 6-foot dishes to
receive the weak signal at the edge of the footprint. Today, a
30-inch dish is standard in AK though many opt for 1m (39-in) or 1.2m
(4-ft) dishes to minimize rain fade.
The 4-MHz gaps in the channels were guard bands and not notched to my
knowledge. Often narrow-band subcarriers carried commercial data not
viewed by home customers.
A standard tool in a satellite installer's kit back in those days was
a chainsaw, since trees did not pass c-band microwaves. I figure
that I installed somewhere about 50-70 dishes from 1985-1991. The
Exxon-Valdez Oil Spill in 1989 gave me 13 months of work and I did
not go back to TV dishes full-time after that. I just retired after
15 years as a comm tech for an AK Oil Spill Recovery Org.
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 5, Issue 239
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