| |
CX2SA > SATDIG 01.04.10 18:44l 1259 Lines 41528 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB5145
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V5 145
Path: IZ3LSV<IK2XDE<DB0RES<WA7V<CX2SA
Sent: 100401/1734Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:49970 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB5145
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Today's Pass Schedule for AA5UK/KH6 BL02ic (Adrian Engele)
2. XE2VAS @ DM31, tomorrow through Sunday 4/4 (Patrick STODDARD)
3. Real-time satellite QSO maps (Gabriel - EA6VQ)
4. Thanks to AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO tonight!
(Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
5. Re: Thanks to AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO tonight! (Adrian Engele)
6. AA5UK/KH6 Schedule for 4/01/2010 (Adrian Engele)
7. Arrow and EME? (MM)
8. XE2BSS @ DM30 update (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
9. OX/N?RC/P active from Thule on HO-68 (OZ1MY)
10. OX/N0RC active from FQ56 (Daniel "Nick" Kucij)
11. Re: Arrow and EME? (Edward Cole)
12. Replies please... (Dave Aitch)
13. FM on VO-52 (H?kan H)
14. Re: Arrow and EME? (Mark Lunday)
15. Re: Arrow and EME? (John Geiger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adrian Engele <aa5uk@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Today's Pass Schedule for AA5UK/KH6 BL02ic
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <935078.27114.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Greetings all,
The AO7 pass this morning was very difficult. I am experiencing locally
heavy QRN on 2m. I had one email from an XE station that suggested
troposcatter could have been affecting my receive as there was 2m
propagation from HI to Baja at the time. Very possible. At the low angles
that I am working, it would not surprise me. Any other theories?
I was on several other passes FO-29 and VU-52 passes this AM and only worked
a couple of stations. I heard one W6 station this morning's pass I had a
rough time copying you. Drop me a note if you get this email. Sure wish to
see more activity on the linear satellites.
Here is what I plan for this afternoon (HI):
4/1/2010:
FO-29 @ 03:34 UTC
FO-29 @ 05:16 UTC I can only work AOS to TCA then I have building blockage.
VU-52 @ 06:50 UTC
FO-29 @ 07:02 UTC. I am still looking for JA's. I know some of you are still
at work but please spread the word locally to others who can be on the air
from JA. The opportunity to work KH6 is getting very small.
No plans for SO-50 or AO-27 at this time as the schedule is not ideal and
there are local KH6 stations that can provide contacts on those satellites
as previously indicated.
HO-68 19:28 UTC SSB (center of band SSB only) I will make an effort to get
on. Hopefully no gremlins this time.
4/3/2010:
Full schedule to be announced.
I know many are chomping at the bit for HO-68 on FM and it looks like this
will be my last opportunity to work this mode.
Will try to make it. Again wind and weather conditions permitting:
HO-68 18:55 UTC.
All for now. I am going sightseeing and work on grabbing some vacation time.
Aloha, 73 Adrian AA5UK/KH6
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick STODDARD <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] XE2VAS @ DM31, tomorrow through Sunday 4/4
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <943270.33925.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi!
Uriel XE2VAS will be driving to Puerto Penasco, better known in English as
Rocky Point , tomorrow morning. This town is on the north end of the Gulf
of California, an hour south of the Arizona border, in grid DM31. Uriel
will have FM gear with him, and hopes to work SO50 and AO27 between tomorrow
and Sunday. Please use standard international phonetics and digits when
calling
XE2VAS, as Uriel is not fluent in English.
I am the QSL manager for XE2VAS, so please send me the QSL requests with SASE
if you would like a QSL card from Uriel. Good luck and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:02:01 +0200
From: "Gabriel - EA6VQ" <ea6vq_ml@xxxxx.xxxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Real-time satellite QSO maps
To: <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <5E930922B3314CA091979D8E1A923FA2@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just a quick note to let you know that DX-Sherlock now provides
satellite-specific real-time maps and QSO lists.
Have a look at http://www.vhfdx.info/spots/map.php?Frec=SAT
<http://www.vhfdx.info/spots/map.php?Frec=SAT&Map=W2L> &Map=W2L
I hope you like it.
73. Gabriel - EA6VQ
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:02:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Patrick STODDARD \(WD9EWK/VA7EWK\)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thanks to AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO tonight!
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <923742.47267.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi!
Thanks to Adrian AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO this evening! It was
nice to work another station from Hawaii. I have worked Hawaii a
few times, and I worked the grid Adrian has been working from (BL02)
a few times last fall when Ron W6ZQ went out there. This was my
first non-FM satellite QSO with Hawaii, and it was fun despite
being out in my normal "home QTH" (Phoenix city park on the
DM33xp/DM43ap grid boundary) well after local sunset.
On that FO-29 pass, I heard a few stations blindly calling for Adrian
even though he was somewhere else on the downlink. Even if he is
trying to work around a particular spot on the downlink, be ready to
tune around to find him. For much of that FO-29 pass, he was about
10 kHz below the center of the downlink. Adrian is the rare DX on
these passes, and there is more to a transponder's downlink than
just the 5 to 10 kHz around the center of the downlink.
Adrian will be out there for a few more days before heading home, so
if you have a shot to try working him - go for it!
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adrian Engele <aa5uk@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Thanks to AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO tonight!
To: amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <947594.81346.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thank you Patrick for passing that advice to the group.
I would like to add it is best to look for me by tuning up and down about
10Khz from center frequency on most satellites, instead of blindly calling
me and hoping I will find you. I am running SatPC and will be fixed
"running" vs. "search and pouncing". Most passes if I have a visible horizon
I can start calling and almost immediately hear myself. In some cases I do
have some trees and minor blockage.
If you follow this advice you will have a better chance of working me.
Currently we are experience very high winds( winds up to 30mph with gusts to
50mph) that have not been seen on the Islands in 20 years. What is happening
the salt water is getting kicked up and getting blown inland. From my
current QTH one can see a salt fog hanging in the air. Unfortunately I
having to direct my signal through this fog. It is causing S9 QRN on 2m
reception. I have tried swapping radios but even the DSP filtering is barely
making a dent. I believe this is reason I have been struggling on AO7 and
VU52 where I have had trouble hearing my downlink for the past several
days. Winds are expected to continue until Sunday. I have had no trouble
with FO-29 as the downlink is on 70cm. Hopefully I can try HO-68 tomorrow on
SSB.
We will keep trying but please note I have no control over the weather and
the atmospheric issues that are being created by the wind.
I'll send out an short schedule via separate email. Thanks all for your
patience and kind emails.
Aloha! 73, Adrian AA5UK/KH6
________________________________
From: Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 8:02:18 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Thanks to AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO tonight!
Hi!
Thanks to Adrian AA5UK/KH6 for the FO-29 QSO this evening! It was
nice to work another station from Hawaii. I have worked Hawaii a
few times, and I worked the grid Adrian has been working from (BL02)
a few times last fall when Ron W6ZQ went out there. This was my
first non-FM satellite QSO with Hawaii, and it was fun despite
being out in my normal "home QTH" (Phoenix city park on the
DM33xp/DM43ap grid boundary) well after local sunset.
On that FO-29 pass, I heard a few stations blindly calling for Adrian
even though he was somewhere else on the downlink. Even if he is
trying to work around a particular spot on the downlink, be ready to
tune around to find him. For much of that FO-29 pass, he was about
10 kHz below the center of the downlink. Adrian is the rare DX on
these passes, and there is more to a transponder's downlink than
just the 5 to 10 kHz around the center of the downlink.
Adrian will be out there for a few more days before heading home, so
if you have a shot to try working him - go for it!
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 00:39:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adrian Engele <aa5uk@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AA5UK/KH6 Schedule for 4/01/2010
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <292308.87299.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Tentative schedule for 4/1/2010:
FO-29 @ 17:03 UTC
VO-52 @ 18:48 UTC
FO-29 @ 18:52 UTC Looking for JA's UA's Alaska
HO-68 @ 19:28 UTC SSB
FO-29 @ 04:22 UTC
VO-52 @ 07:08 UTC
FO-29 @ 07:56 UTC tentative Looking for JA's UA's Alaska
All passes are subject to weather conditions due to heavy winds expected for
next several which is causing QRN on 2m downlinks.
Aloha.
73, Adrian AA5UK/KH6
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 05:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: MM <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Arrow and EME?
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <786486.54783.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Arrow Antenna and EME:
It is possible to work Earth Moon Earth with an Arrow Antenna.
Of course, it is. You just need to make a schedule with someone on the
other side of the link with enough Antenna Gain. You also need to be
running the new digital text messaging mode called JT65B
Link for JT65
http://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/
Definitions:
In this document I will refer to all antenna gain values based on the number
of elements.
Example: A Single half-wave Dipole = 0 dBd
Elements 2 = 3 dBd
Elements 4 = 6 dBd
Elements 8 = 9 dBd
Elements 16 = 12 dBd
The Arrow antenna (Model 146/436-10) has 3 elements on the 2-meter band, so
its maximum theoretical "Element Gain" is 4.5 dBd.
With the invention of the JT65 protocols, thousands of Amateur Radio
stations running a Single Yagi 2-meter antennas, now have access to the Moon
and EME contacts.
To make a contact on Moon bounce, the "Total Antenna Gain" from both
stations is added up and will need to be in the approximate range of 25-30
dBd. With this gain and the average transmitter power of (100-400 watts)
you will have a 10-20+ percent chance of completing a 2-way EME JT65B link,
with another station.
Note: There are many other factures used in EME gain calculations. For
simplicity, we will just focus on the antenna Gain.
The amount of Total Antenna Gain required depends on the mode you wish to
use. The wider the mode, the more gain that is required. The mode JT65B is
a very narrow mode and requires less gain. I am not going to go over all of
the details of JT65 in this article, look it up.
Gain required by mode: (All values are approximate)
JT65 28-30 dBd (1-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
CW 30-40 dBd (4-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
SSB 40-50 dBd (8-Yagi + 8-Yagi)
FM 60-70 dBd (16 + 24) Guess
The Mode JT65B requires approximately 30 dB of Total Antenna Gain for an EME
contact.
If we assume the average 12-element 2-Meter Yagi has 10.5 dBd (round to 11
for easy math) of "Element Gain", then the more Yagi's you stack, the more
gain you will have. In EME lingo, 1x12 means, you have One Yagi, with 12
elements, 4x12 means you have a stack of 4 yagis with 12 elements each (48
elements total) and an approximate gain of 17 dBd.
1-Yagi = 11 dBd
2-Yagi = 14 dBd
4-Yagi = 17 dBd
8-Yagi = 20 dBd
16-Yagi = 23 dBd
32-Yagi = 26 dBd
64-Yagi = 29 dBd (W5UN)
A Single-Yagi station (11 dBd) calling a 4-Yagi (17 dBd) station will have
approximately 28 dBd Total Antenna Gain. The 4xYagi stations are very
common on JT56B EME.
Let's go back to the Arrow Antenna:
We need 30 dBd of total antenna gain.
The Arrow antenna has 4.5 dBd.
The Arrow also has a Maximum power limitation of 150 watts (10 watts if hand
held).
If you are running the maximum 150 watts on your Arrow antenna, you should
be able to work stations with 32 to 64 Yagi's. There are not very many 64
Yagi stations out there, however Dave W5UN has been active on JT65 EME
recently.
If you want more of a challenge, you can try QRP at 5 watts and your Arrow
antenna.
Reducing you power from 150 watts to 5-10 watts, will reduce your
performance by 12 db.
To compensate for the reduce power, you will just need to find a station
with a bigger antenna.
There is another big gun on EME. Two weeks ago, Arecibo was on EME, running
CW, working EME stations on the 440 band. The antenna used at Arecibo is a
simple 1,000 foot dish. The actual gain for 2-meters is not known, however
I will assume it is more than 64-Yagi's.
http://www.naic.edu/
So here is your chance. Make a schedule with Arecibo and go for QRP, EME,
with a held Arrow antenna, or if you know of any good contacts at Arecibo,
send me the data and I'll try to arrange a schedule and try it from my
station.
Other Hardware:
A good Receiver Preamp (similar to ARR)
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/
A good SSB 2-meter Transceiver (the best ever made Yaesu FT-736R)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ketel/ham/ft736.htm
Good Coax (RG-8 coax is 11 Millimeter coax. That is ok for 50' EME runs,
for longer runs use 12+ Millimeter coax)
73
WF1F
www.marexmg.org
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Patrick STODDARD \(WD9EWK/VA7EWK\)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] XE2BSS @ DM30 update
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <296604.22309.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi!
Alex XE2BSS called me a few minutes ago, to say he did not make it
out to the DM30 area in time for the AO-27 and SO-50 passes yesterday.
He is now there, and plans to be on from DM30 starting with the AO-27
pass around 2029 UTC this afternoon. He may get on the SO-50 pass
that is also around the same time, but will make an effort to be on
AO-27 without the PL tone when it comes on.
Good luck, and 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 18:15:18 +0200
From: "OZ1MY" <oz1my@xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] OX/N?RC/P active from Thule on HO-68
To: "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000501cad1b6$85d0ff00$7b01a8c0@xxxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all,
He was active on HO-68 (XW-1) on the pass
with AOS here in Copenhagen at 1527 UTC.
The next pass looks good for Europe and NA.
HO-68 is scheduled to be in FM (Voice) from 1705 to
1750 UTC.
Good luck and have a nice Easter all.
73 OZ1MY
Ib
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:26:36 -0400
From: "Daniel \"Nick\" Kucij" <dnkucij@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] OX/N0RC active from FQ56
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <A5CFBADB-A169-42C2-B749-500C1D769DBA@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
OX/N0RC, Reid was active on HO-68 from FQ56 this morning. We completed
a FM QSO at 1544 UTC, just before HO-68 shut-off. He expects to be
active on the next HO-68 FM pass with AOS at his location at 1720 UTC.
73
Nick KB1RVT
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 08:46:35 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow and EME?
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <201004011646.o31Gka3T068201@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
A few comments for accuracy (no criticism intended on what WF1F
wrote). I have been on 2m-eme since 1998 and have used digital mode
since 2003 when it first was made available. Insertions (below)
At 04:36 AM 4/1/2010, MM wrote:
>Arrow Antenna and EME:
>
>It is possible to work Earth Moon Earth with an Arrow Antenna.
>
>Of course, it is. You just need to make a schedule with someone on
>the other side of the link with enough Antenna Gain. You also need
>to be running the new digital text messaging mode called JT65B
>
>Link for JT65
>http://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/
>
>Definitions:
>In this document I will refer to all antenna gain values based on
>the number of elements.
>
>Example: A Single half-wave Dipole = 0 dBd
>Elements 2 = 3 dBd
>Elements 4 = 6 dBd
>Elements 8 = 9 dBd
>Elements 16 = 12 dBd
This is not entirely accurate. Yagi antennas increase gain in direct
relationship to length of boom and not exactly a function of number
of elements. I run four ten-element yagis with a total gain of 17.6
dBd (19.2 dBi). One such yagi has 11.6 dBd (13.2 dBi). It is
21-feet long (eme'rs usually refer to wavelengths for boomlength, i.e. 3 WL)
>The Arrow antenna (Model 146/436-10) has 3 elements on the 2-meter
>band, so its maximum theoretical "Element Gain" is 4.5 dBd.
>
>With the invention of the JT65 protocols, thousands of Amateur Radio
>stations running a Single Yagi 2-meter antennas, now have access to
>the Moon and EME contacts.
The rest of this pertains to 2-meter eme. 432-eme will take more
antenna gain since the path-loss is higher at increase
frequencies. This means antenna gain requirements go up
(approximately 6-dB more for stations working eme on 432). The norm
for two CW EME stations is 18-dBi with 1000w on 2-meters and 24-dBi
with 1000w on 432. (subtract 1.64 dB to convert antenna gain to dBd).
The requirements drop significantly for running JT-65 instead of CW:
144-eme: 13-dBi with 600w (min)
432-eme: 19-dBi with 600w (min)
this is for two such stations working each other. This not easy at
this level and may take several hours spread over several days to
make one contact for stations so equipped.
I ran my four yagis with 125w (at the antenna; 170w at the amplifier)
and made contacts with single yagi stations running 600w. I now have
600w. This is on 2-meters.
>To make a contact on Moon bounce, the "Total Antenna Gain" from both
>stations is added up and will need to be in the approximate range
>of 25-30 dBd. With this gain and the average transmitter power of
>(100-400 watts) you will have a 10-20+ percent chance of completing
>a 2-way EME JT65B link, with another station.
>Note: There are many other factures used in EME gain
>calculations. For simplicity, we will just focus on the antenna Gain.
>
>The amount of Total Antenna Gain required depends on the mode you
>wish to use. The wider the mode, the more gain that is
>required. The mode JT65B is a very narrow mode and requires less
>gain. I am not going to go over all of the details of JT65 in this
>article, look it up.
>
>Gain required by mode: (All values are approximate)
>
>JT65 28-30 dBd (1-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
>CW 30-40 dBd (4-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
>SSB 40-50 dBd (8-Yagi + 8-Yagi)
>FM 60-70 dBd (16 + 24) Guess
Don't even give any thought to using FM for eme; it is too wide in
bandwidth to get reasonable sensitivity in receive. SSB has only
been done with one or two super-sized 2m-eme stations; it is more
common with large stations on 1296-eme. I expect to work 1296-SSB
with my 16-foot dish running 300w with stations running dishes >25-feet.
EME is done on CW or JT-65, predominately. Using an Arrow you will
HAVE to use JT-65.
>
>
>The Mode JT65B requires approximately 30 dB of Total Antenna Gain
>for an EME contact.
>If we assume the average 12-element 2-Meter Yagi has 10.5 dBd (round
>to 11 for easy math) of "Element Gain", then the more Yagi's you
>stack, the more gain you will have. In EME lingo, 1x12 means, you
>have One Yagi, with 12 elements, 4x12 means you have a stack of 4
>yagis with 12 elements each (48 elements total) and an approximate
>gain of 17 dBd.
>
>1-Yagi = 11 dBd
>2-Yagi = 14 dBd
>4-Yagi = 17 dBd
>8-Yagi = 20 dBd
>16-Yagi = 23 dBd
>32-Yagi = 26 dBd
>64-Yagi = 29 dBd (W5UN)
>
>
>A Single-Yagi station (11 dBd) calling a 4-Yagi (17 dBd) station
>will have approximately 28 dBd Total Antenna Gain. The 4xYagi
>stations are very common on JT56B EME.
>
>Let's go back to the Arrow Antenna:
>
>We need 30 dBd of total antenna gain.
>The Arrow antenna has 4.5 dBd.
>The Arrow also has a Maximum power limitation of 150 watts (10 watts
>if hand held).
>
>If you are running the maximum 150 watts on your Arrow antenna, you
>should be able to work stations with 32 to 64 Yagi's. There are not
>very many 64 Yagi stations out there, however Dave W5UN has been
>active on JT65 EME recently.
>
>If you want more of a challenge, you can try QRP at 5 watts and your
>Arrow antenna.
>Reducing you power from 150 watts to 5-10 watts, will reduce your
>performance by 12 db.
>To compensate for the reduce power, you will just need to find a
>station with a bigger antenna.
>
>There is another big gun on EME. Two weeks ago, Arecibo was on EME,
>running CW, working EME stations on the 440 band. The antenna used
>at Arecibo is a simple 1,000 foot dish. The actual gain for
>2-meters is not known, however I will assume it is more than 64-Yagi's.
Arecibo will be doing 432-eme, NOT on 2-meters! However, one could
try their 6-element UHF Arrow antenna with preamp (absolutely
necessary) to try hearing Arecibo which has 58 dBi (56 dBd) gain on
432-MHz. In a recent test folks with small yagis 7-10 elements were
able to hear Arecibo. Arecibo will be running 500w (from last
reports). it is not known if they plan to run JT-65; the focus is
using SSB with other large dishes around the world. Average sized
432-eme stations (8-yagi and up) are expected work them (maybe
requiring the use of CW for smaller stations). If you have 100w+ on
432 you might try CW with Arecibo with a small yagi (ONLY IF you can
hear them, first - DO NOT Transmit if you cannot hear Arecibo).
I will be using 100w with my 16-foot dish (24-dBi gain).
BUT I REPEAT Arecibo will NOT be using 2-meters; ONLY 432.045 MHz
(plus/minus for the expected QRM of stations wishing to contact them).
Arecibo will be doing eme on April 16-18 at times limited by their
Moon view (they can only point down to 70-deg elevation). I will
reprint the times once I find the e-mail that cited the exact operating times.
>http://www.naic.edu/
>
>So here is your chance. Make a schedule with Arecibo and go for
>QRP, EME, with a held Arrow antenna, or if you know of any good
>contacts at Arecibo, send me the data and I'll try to arrange a
>schedule and try it from my station.
>
>Other Hardware:
>A good Receiver Preamp (similar to ARR)
>http://www.advancedreceiver.com/
>
>A good SSB 2-meter Transceiver (the best ever made Yaesu FT-736R)
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~ketel/ham/ft736.htm
>
>Good Coax (RG-8 coax is 11 Millimeter coax. That is ok for 50' EME
>runs, for longer runs use 12+ Millimeter coax)
>
>73
>
>WF1F
>www.marexmg.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 18:00:42 +0100
From: "Dave Aitch" <dave@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Replies please...
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, <pmtdxgroup@xxxxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Message-ID: <002601cad1bc$ddd43810$997ca830$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A few days ago I put some satellite equipment up for sale.
I have replied to all interested parties directly.
Having not heard anything back from the various directly
who wanted just about every item that was mentioned, I
would appreciate a yes, no or an offer, please.
Cheers, Dave.
G1OCN AMSAT 5766
Portland. Dorset.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:00:52 +0200
From: H?kan H <sm7wsj@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] FM on VO-52
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <C9FB0DF912EB454687A363F56ED94B35@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello!
It is the firsth of April but i was very surprised to hear a russian station
on VO52 with downlink in FM?? is this something new or have i missed
something?
It was a callsign and clearly a call via satellite. downlink on 145.925mhz.
73 Hakan SM7WSJ
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:11:53 -0400
From: "Mark Lunday" <mlunday@xx.xx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow and EME?
To: "'MM'" <ka1rrw@xxxxx.xxx>, <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <003a01cad1be$6d36a690$47a3f3b0$@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have been doing some reading on this also. Although I have not yet made
any EME contacts, I have been uncovered the following:
1. Moonrise/moonset will enhance signals because of ground reflections,
something like 6 dB. Many folks intentionally use moonrise and moonset
attempts for this reason.
2. Mast mounted pre-amp is essential
3. Higher frequencies need more gain (so I have been told). But the 440 MHz
part of the arrow antenna should have a LOT more gain than the 2 meter part.
4. Low loss coax is very important, esp at VHF. Keep the runs short and use
something equiv to LMR 400 (50 foot of the good stuff is probably under
$100, and worth it.
5. Definitely try to set up a sked with W5UN. If you can hear him, then you
are halfway there!
6. Monitor websites like http://www.chris.org/cgi-bin/jt65emeA
7. 2010 appears to be a promising year for EME, here is a good calendar:
http://www.vhfdx.net/w5luu.html
Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC - FM06be
wd4elg@xxxx.xxx
http://wd4elg.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of MM
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:37 AM
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Arrow and EME?
Arrow Antenna and EME:
It is possible to work Earth Moon Earth with an Arrow Antenna.
Of course, it is. You just need to make a schedule with someone on the
other side of the link with enough Antenna Gain. You also need to be
running the new digital text messaging mode called JT65B
Link for JT65
http://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/
Definitions:
In this document I will refer to all antenna gain values based on the number
of elements.
Example: A Single half-wave Dipole = 0 dBd
Elements 2 = 3 dBd
Elements 4 = 6 dBd
Elements 8 = 9 dBd
Elements 16 = 12 dBd
The Arrow antenna (Model 146/436-10) has 3 elements on the 2-meter band, so
its maximum theoretical "Element Gain" is 4.5 dBd.
With the invention of the JT65 protocols, thousands of Amateur Radio
stations running a Single Yagi 2-meter antennas, now have access to the Moon
and EME contacts.
To make a contact on Moon bounce, the "Total Antenna Gain" from both
stations is added up and will need to be in the approximate range of 25-30
dBd. With this gain and the average transmitter power of (100-400 watts)
you will have a 10-20+ percent chance of completing a 2-way EME JT65B link,
with another station.
Note: There are many other factures used in EME gain calculations. For
simplicity, we will just focus on the antenna Gain.
The amount of Total Antenna Gain required depends on the mode you wish to
use. The wider the mode, the more gain that is required. The mode JT65B is
a very narrow mode and requires less gain. I am not going to go over all of
the details of JT65 in this article, look it up.
Gain required by mode: (All values are approximate)
JT65 28-30 dBd (1-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
CW 30-40 dBd (4-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
SSB 40-50 dBd (8-Yagi + 8-Yagi)
FM 60-70 dBd (16 + 24) Guess
The Mode JT65B requires approximately 30 dB of Total Antenna Gain for an EME
contact.
If we assume the average 12-element 2-Meter Yagi has 10.5 dBd (round to 11
for easy math) of "Element Gain", then the more Yagi's you stack, the more
gain you will have. In EME lingo, 1x12 means, you have One Yagi, with 12
elements, 4x12 means you have a stack of 4 yagis with 12 elements each (48
elements total) and an approximate gain of 17 dBd.
1-Yagi = 11 dBd
2-Yagi = 14 dBd
4-Yagi = 17 dBd
8-Yagi = 20 dBd
16-Yagi = 23 dBd
32-Yagi = 26 dBd
64-Yagi = 29 dBd (W5UN)
A Single-Yagi station (11 dBd) calling a 4-Yagi (17 dBd) station will have
approximately 28 dBd Total Antenna Gain. The 4xYagi stations are very
common on JT56B EME.
Let's go back to the Arrow Antenna:
We need 30 dBd of total antenna gain.
The Arrow antenna has 4.5 dBd.
The Arrow also has a Maximum power limitation of 150 watts (10 watts if hand
held).
If you are running the maximum 150 watts on your Arrow antenna, you should
be able to work stations with 32 to 64 Yagi's. There are not very many 64
Yagi stations out there, however Dave W5UN has been active on JT65 EME
recently.
If you want more of a challenge, you can try QRP at 5 watts and your Arrow
antenna.
Reducing you power from 150 watts to 5-10 watts, will reduce your
performance by 12 db.
To compensate for the reduce power, you will just need to find a station
with a bigger antenna.
There is another big gun on EME. Two weeks ago, Arecibo was on EME, running
CW, working EME stations on the 440 band. The antenna used at Arecibo is a
simple 1,000 foot dish. The actual gain for 2-meters is not known, however
I will assume it is more than 64-Yagi's.
http://www.naic.edu/
So here is your chance. Make a schedule with Arecibo and go for QRP, EME,
with a held Arrow antenna, or if you know of any good contacts at Arecibo,
send me the data and I'll try to arrange a schedule and try it from my
station.
Other Hardware:
A good Receiver Preamp (similar to ARR)
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/
A good SSB 2-meter Transceiver (the best ever made Yaesu FT-736R)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ketel/ham/ft736.htm
Good Coax (RG-8 coax is 11 Millimeter coax. That is ok for 50' EME runs,
for longer runs use 12+ Millimeter coax)
73
WF1F
www.marexmg.org
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 10:14:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Geiger <aa5jg@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow and EME?
To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxxx Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <631066.39955.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have done very limited EME on 2m using JT65. My one good QSO was with
W5UN who probably has the best EME setup on the planet. I was using a
Cushcraft 13B2 and 160 watts. I also almost completed with RN6BY using this
same setup but he had moonset at his QTH before we got the final sequence
completed. The 13B2 has 13 elements on a 15 foot boom and Cushcraft
advertises it at 12DBd or something like that. I have tried with other big
stations using that same setup and was unsuccessful. I did not have an
external preamp.
To use a 3 element arrow would really be pushing it, even for running with
W5UN. I would think you would need at least 300 watts if not more, and an
external preamp to even have a shot.
73s JOhn AA5JG
--- On Thu, 4/1/10, Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow and EME?
> To: AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 11:46 AM
> A few comments for accuracy (no
> criticism intended on what WF1F
> wrote).? I have been on 2m-eme since 1998 and have
> used digital mode
> since 2003 when it first was made available.?
> Insertions (below)
>
> At 04:36 AM 4/1/2010, MM wrote:
> >Arrow Antenna and EME:
> >
> >It is possible to work Earth Moon Earth with an Arrow
> Antenna.
> >
> >Of course, it is.? You just need to make a
> schedule with someone on
> >the other side of the link with enough Antenna
> Gain.? You also need
> >to be running the new digital text messaging mode
> called JT65B
> >
> >Link for JT65
> >http://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/
> >
> >Definitions:
> >In this document I will refer to all antenna gain
> values based on
> >the number of elements.
> >
> >Example: A Single half-wave Dipole = 0 dBd
> >Elements 2 = 3 dBd
> >Elements 4 = 6 dBd
> >Elements 8 = 9 dBd
> >Elements 16 = 12 dBd
>
> This is not entirely accurate.? Yagi antennas increase
> gain in direct
> relationship to length of boom and not exactly a function
> of number
> of elements.? I run four ten-element yagis with a
> total gain of 17.6
> dBd (19.2 dBi).? One such yagi has 11.6 dBd (13.2
> dBi).? It is
> 21-feet long (eme'rs usually refer to wavelengths for
> boomlength, i.e. 3 WL)
>
>
> >The Arrow antenna (Model 146/436-10) has 3 elements on
> the 2-meter
> >band, so its maximum theoretical "Element Gain" is 4.5
> dBd.
> >
> >With the invention of the JT65 protocols, thousands of
> Amateur Radio
> >stations running a Single Yagi 2-meter antennas, now
> have access to
> >the Moon and EME contacts.
>
> The rest of this pertains to 2-meter eme.? 432-eme
> will take more
> antenna gain since the path-loss is higher at increase
> frequencies.? This means antenna gain requirements go
> up
> (approximately 6-dB more for stations working eme on
> 432).? The norm
> for two CW EME stations is 18-dBi with 1000w on 2-meters
> and 24-dBi
> with 1000w on 432.? (subtract 1.64 dB to convert
> antenna gain to dBd).
>
> The requirements drop significantly for running JT-65
> instead of CW:
> 144-eme:? 13-dBi with 600w (min)
> 432-eme:? 19-dBi with 600w (min)
> this is for two such stations working each other.?
> This not easy at
> this level and may take several hours spread over several
> days to
> make one contact for stations so equipped.
>
> I ran my four yagis with 125w (at the antenna; 170w at the
> amplifier)
> and made contacts with single yagi stations running
> 600w.? I now have
> 600w.? This is on 2-meters.
>
> >To make a contact on Moon bounce, the "Total Antenna
> Gain" from both
> >stations is added up? and will need to be in the
> approximate range
> >of 25-30 dBd.? With this gain and the average
> transmitter power of
> >(100-400 watts) you will have a 10-20+ percent chance
> of completing
> >a 2-way EME JT65B link, with another station.
> >Note: There are many other factures used in EME gain
> >calculations.? For simplicity, we will just focus
> on the antenna Gain.
> >
> >The amount of Total Antenna Gain required depends on
> the mode you
> >wish to use.? The wider the mode, the more gain
> that is
> >required.? The mode JT65B is a very narrow mode
> and requires less
> >gain.? I am not going to go over all of the
> details of JT65 in this
> >article, look it up.
> >
> >Gain required by mode: (All values are approximate)
> >
> >JT65? ? 28-30 dBd (1-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
> >CW? ? ? 30-40 dBd (4-Yagi + 4-Yagi)
> >SSB? ???40-50 dBd (8-Yagi +
> 8-Yagi)
> >FM? ? ? 60-70 dBd (16 + 24) Guess
>
> Don't even give any thought to using FM for eme; it is too
> wide in
> bandwidth to get reasonable sensitivity in receive.?
> SSB has only
> been done with one or two super-sized 2m-eme stations; it
> is more
> common with large stations on 1296-eme.? I expect to
> work 1296-SSB
> with my 16-foot dish running 300w with stations running
> dishes >25-feet.
>
> EME is done on CW or JT-65, predominately.? Using an
> Arrow you will
> HAVE to use JT-65.
>
> >
> >
> >The Mode JT65B requires approximately 30 dB of Total
> Antenna Gain
> >for an EME contact.
> >If we assume the average 12-element 2-Meter Yagi has
> 10.5 dBd (round
> >to 11 for easy math) of? "Element Gain", then the
> more Yagi's you
> >stack, the more gain you will have.? In EME lingo,
> 1x12 means, you
> >have One Yagi, with 12 elements,? 4x12 means you
> have a stack of 4
> >yagis with 12 elements each (48 elements total) and an
> approximate
> >gain of 17 dBd.
> >
> >1-Yagi = 11 dBd
> >2-Yagi = 14 dBd
> >4-Yagi = 17 dBd
> >8-Yagi = 20 dBd
> >16-Yagi = 23 dBd
> >32-Yagi = 26 dBd
> >64-Yagi = 29 dBd? (W5UN)
> >
> >
> >A Single-Yagi station? (11 dBd) calling a 4-Yagi
> (17 dBd) station
> >will have approximately 28 dBd Total Antenna
> Gain.? The 4xYagi
> >stations are very common on JT56B EME.
> >
> >Let's go back to the Arrow Antenna:
> >
> >We need 30 dBd of total antenna gain.
> >The Arrow antenna has 4.5 dBd.
> >The Arrow also has a Maximum power limitation of 150
> watts (10 watts
> >if hand held).
> >
> >If you are running the maximum 150 watts? on your
> Arrow antenna, you
> >should be able to work stations with 32 to 64
> Yagi's.? There are not
> >very many 64 Yagi stations out there, however Dave W5UN
> has been
> >active on JT65 EME recently.
> >
> >If you want more of a challenge, you can try QRP at 5
> watts and your
> >Arrow antenna.
> >Reducing you power from 150 watts to 5-10 watts, will
> reduce your
> >performance by 12 db.
> >To compensate for the reduce power, you will just need
> to find a
> >station with a bigger antenna.
> >
> >There is another big gun on EME.? Two weeks ago,
> Arecibo was on EME,
> >running CW, working EME stations on the 440 band.?
> The antenna used
> >at Arecibo is a simple 1,000 foot dish.? The
> actual gain for
> >2-meters is not known, however I will assume it is more
> than 64-Yagi's.
>
> Arecibo will be doing 432-eme, NOT on 2-meters!?
> However, one could
> try their 6-element UHF Arrow antenna with preamp
> (absolutely
> necessary) to try hearing Arecibo which has 58 dBi (56 dBd)
> gain on
> 432-MHz.? In a recent test folks with small yagis 7-10
> elements were
> able to hear Arecibo.? Arecibo will be running 500w
> (from last
> reports).? it is not known if they plan to run JT-65;
> the focus is
> using SSB with other large dishes around the world.?
> Average sized
> 432-eme stations (8-yagi and up) are expected work
> them? (maybe
> requiring the use of CW for smaller stations).? If you
> have 100w+? on
> 432 you might try CW with Arecibo with a small yagi (ONLY
> IF you can
> hear them, first - DO NOT Transmit if you cannot hear
> Arecibo).
>
> I will be using 100w with my 16-foot dish (24-dBi gain).
>
> BUT I REPEAT Arecibo will NOT be using 2-meters; ONLY
> 432.045 MHz
> (plus/minus for the expected QRM of stations wishing to
> contact them).
>
> Arecibo will be doing eme on April 16-18 at times limited
> by their
> Moon view (they can only point down to 70-deg
> elevation).? I will
> reprint the times once I find the e-mail that cited the
> exact operating times.
>
>
> >http://www.naic.edu/
> >
> >So here is your chance.? Make a schedule with
> Arecibo and go for
> >QRP, EME, with a held Arrow antenna, or if you know of
> any good
> >contacts at Arecibo, send me the data and I'll try to
> arrange a
> >schedule and try it from my station.
> >
> >Other Hardware:
> >A good Receiver Preamp (similar to ARR)
> >http://www.advancedreceiver.com/
> >
> >A good SSB 2-meter Transceiver (the best ever made
> Yaesu FT-736R)
> >http://www.xs4all.nl/~ketel/ham/ft736.htm
> >
> >Good Coax (RG-8 coax is 11 Millimeter coax.? That
> is ok for 50' EME
> >runs, for longer runs use 12+ Millimeter coax)
> >
> >73
> >
> >WF1F
> >www.marexmg.org
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx.
> Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite program!
> >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> ? BP40IQ???500 KHz -
> 10-GHz???www.kl7uw.com
> 500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxxxx.xxx
> ======================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx.
> Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 5, Issue 145
****************************************
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
