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CX2SA > SATDIG 16.11.09 22:06l 293 Lines 13069 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB4609
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Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V4 609
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Sent: 091116/2003Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:18326 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB4609
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: AMSAT, ITAR, More AMSAT-NA Volunteers & Such . . .
(Alan P. Biddle)
2. Uni_trac 2000 sat files (Michael Wolthuis)
3. Re: AMSAT, ITAR, More AMSAT-NA Volunteers & Such . . .
(Samudra Haque)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:30:03 -0600
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT, ITAR, More AMSAT-NA Volunteers & Such .
. .
To: "'Alex, N3SQ'" <amsat@xxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <EBE4299A35F64BC5B8307C74ABF00F58@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Alex,
A good post. We are indeed adapting to the Brave New World of ITAR, and we
are not alone in that. At a recent SmallSat meeting I attended, there was
even a tutorial for companies large and small, large being the size of
Boeing. It was about how to work with and around ITAR if you are involved
with the Operationally Responsive Space initiative. Doable it is, but easy
it isn't. Even at the university level, the consequences of not doing it
right can be considerable. An emeritus professor associated with a major
state university in Tennessee was just sentenced to several months in jail
for not following the rules with his consulting company and personnel.
While some of us feel like pounding our heads against the wall in
frustration, few if any are crying in their beer about ITAR at the level
where things actually get done. However, it has taken a longer time than
any would have wished to determine exactly what paths are going to be open.
Some past paths are definitely(?) closed, and others are being opened.
Still, all of us are going to need to understand how those paths can be
worked efficiently and productively. The IBM and SUNY-Binghamton are just
the beginning of that process.
Alan
WA4SCA
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Alex, N3SQ
Sent: 16 November, 2009 11:35
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT, ITAR, More AMSAT-NA Volunteers & Such . . .
Ladies & Gentlemen,
Here's the main thing to think about ITAR. ITAR regulates OUTFLOW of
information, it doesn't care about INFLOW of information. If you build
or design it by a non-US Person (Citizen or Legal Permanent Resident)
and you bring it INTO the US, ITAR does not care. So AMSAT-NA can use
designs from P3E, but cannot design parts of P3E.
So the logical thing to do is have all "major" future AMSAT spacecraft
be AMSAT-NA managed spacecraft with design elements (camera systems,
experiments, etc.) contributed by other AMSAT organizations. The only
main technical interaction between the AMSATs would be via a standard,
open-sourced, well-published-in-technical-journals interface
specification. Money could be contributed from other AMSATs to fund
launch & development costs.
As for the mantra of "no one being able to develop the equipment in the
US" . . . The volunteer base is not capped, just expand the size of the
volunteer base and organize it better. None of the experienced engineers
should be directly building hardware, we should all be supervising teams
of engineering students who actually build the equipment. There are over
250 University Engineering programs in the US. Each of those programs
have at least 50 students in each graduating class. Let's say that we
can get 15% of the students interested in working on a satellite
project (my personal observations are more like 75% of the students
are interested).
Let's do the Math:
Worse Case: 250 Schools x 50 students per graduating class x 15% = 1875
POTENTIALLY INTERESTED STUDENTS IN THE US
Best Case: 250 Schools x 50 students per graduating class x 75% = 9375
POTENTIALLY INTERESTED STUDENTS IN THE US
And this is just talking about COLLEGE SENIORS - EE's, ME's, CE's, CS's,
SE's . . . double the number if you include the Juniors.
Anywhere near this load of students would completely overload the
current AMSAT-NA volunteer base. But talk about the potentially
available volunteer base!
With Binghamton University, I had 7 Hardware Engineering slots available
on the team. There are 200 Hardware Engineers in the BU graduating class
- about 168 of the students wanted to be on the Satellite Project Team,
a 24x over-subscription. That's pretty impressive. I could have had more
teams, but we need to crawl, the walk, then run with this activity -
EVOLUTIONARY not REVOLUTIONARY (but let's just make sure evolution works
quickly . . .)
The current BU student team is "stoked", they are really excited to be
working the project. Every week I get thanked by the students for
bringing the project to their attention. They have done some really
great work and they have a great faculty advisor, Dr. Roger Westgate. I
expect that there will be more than 1 project team next year working on
an AMSAT satellite, assuming AMSAT is interested in sponsoring more.
So stop crying into your beer over ITAR. The world is not coming to an
end. Let's work to launch spacecraft within the ITAR limits.
In the meantime, let the AMSAT-NA BoD navigate it's way through the
byzantine structure of the US Govt to try to bring about change in ITAR.
Alex Harvilchuck, N3NP
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:35:00 -0500
From: Michael Wolthuis <mwolthuis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Uni_trac 2000 sat files
To: "amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <C7270584.D8A0%mwolthuis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Can anyone who is running a Uni_Trac 2000 or 2003 zip me up your .sat files
and send them to me by chance? My directory seems to be missing these and I
can?t get it to create even one for an example. I?m working on it, but the
easy solution would be if someone can send me the files they use.
Thanks!
Mike
kb8zgl
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:50:22 -0500
From: Samudra Haque <samudra.haque@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT, ITAR, More AMSAT-NA Volunteers & Such .
. .
To: "Alex, N3SQ" <amsat@xxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<d8c724880911161050t3571df56oa923c07bbe7e3e1@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Alex et. al, I would like to add in a comment that according to the latest
SBIR release from DoD (many organizations), ITAR compliant persons who are
not US Citizens can also be included in DoD funded commercial research
projects, as long as they are correctly registered and supervised under the
ITAR regulations. This means that if a student from a US university who is
NOT a US Citizen, but rather a US LPR green card holder or beneficiary of a
protected class of visitor able to be employed, can potentially:
* work as a student intern in a commercial company
* work in projects that require ITAR clearance subject to supervision
* work alongside with other US Citizens.
This is pretty good opportunity for all in my opinion. I am sure this would
be the same case for STTR opportunities as well. Some of these projects can
involve aerospace projects, or materials/processes useful for future
aerospace projects.
I quote from the SBIR preface at :
http://www.acq.osd.mil/osbp/sbir/solicitations/sbir101/index.htm
*
Export Control.* The International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), 22
CFR Parts 120 through 130, and the Export Administration Regulations (EAR),
15 CFR Parts 730 through 799, will apply to all projects with military or
dual-use applications that develop beyond fundamental research, which is
basic and applied research ordinarily published and shared broadly within
the scientific community. More information is available at *
http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html*<http://www.pmddtc.stat
e.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html>.
NOTE: Export control compliance statements found in the individual
component proposal instructions are not meant to be all inclusive. They do
not remove any liability from the submitter to comply with applicable ITAR
or EAR export control restrictions or from informing the Government of any
potential export restriction as fundamental research and development efforts
proceed.
Sample text from an SBIR:
The technology within this topic is restricted under the International
Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of
defense-related material and services. Offerors must disclose any proposed
use of foreign nationals, their country of origin, and what tasks each would
accomplish in the statement of work in accordance with section 3.5.b.(7) of
the solicitation
I would hope AMSAT-NA would consider teaming with universities to apply for
research grants like these.
-samudra N3RDX
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Alex, N3SQ <amsat@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Ladies & Gentlemen,
>
> Here's the main thing to think about ITAR. ITAR regulates OUTFLOW of
> information, it doesn't care about INFLOW of information. If you build
> or design it by a non-US Person (Citizen or Legal Permanent Resident)
> and you bring it INTO the US, ITAR does not care. So AMSAT-NA can use
> designs from P3E, but cannot design parts of P3E.
>
> So the logical thing to do is have all "major" future AMSAT spacecraft
> be AMSAT-NA managed spacecraft with design elements (camera systems,
> experiments, etc.) contributed by other AMSAT organizations. The only
> main technical interaction between the AMSATs would be via a standard,
> open-sourced, well-published-in-technical-journals interface
> specification. Money could be contributed from other AMSATs to fund
> launch & development costs.
>
> As for the mantra of "no one being able to develop the equipment in the
> US" . . . The volunteer base is not capped, just expand the size of the
> volunteer base and organize it better. None of the experienced engineers
> should be directly building hardware, we should all be supervising teams
> of engineering students who actually build the equipment. There are over
> 250 University Engineering programs in the US. Each of those programs
> have at least 50 students in each graduating class. Let's say that we
> can get 15% of the students interested in working on a satellite
> project (my personal observations are more like 75% of the students
> are interested).
>
> Let's do the Math:
> Worse Case: 250 Schools x 50 students per graduating class x 15% = 1875
> POTENTIALLY INTERESTED STUDENTS IN THE US
> Best Case: 250 Schools x 50 students per graduating class x 75% = 9375
> POTENTIALLY INTERESTED STUDENTS IN THE US
> And this is just talking about COLLEGE SENIORS - EE's, ME's, CE's, CS's,
> SE's . . . double the number if you include the Juniors.
>
> Anywhere near this load of students would completely overload the
> current AMSAT-NA volunteer base. But talk about the potentially
> available volunteer base!
>
> With Binghamton University, I had 7 Hardware Engineering slots available
> on the team. There are 200 Hardware Engineers in the BU graduating class
> - about 168 of the students wanted to be on the Satellite Project Team,
> a 24x over-subscription. That's pretty impressive. I could have had more
> teams, but we need to crawl, the walk, then run with this activity -
> EVOLUTIONARY not REVOLUTIONARY (but let's just make sure evolution works
> quickly . . .)
>
> The current BU student team is "stoked", they are really excited to be
> working the project. Every week I get thanked by the students for
> bringing the project to their attention. They have done some really
> great work and they have a great faculty advisor, Dr. Roger Westgate. I
> expect that there will be more than 1 project team next year working on
> an AMSAT satellite, assuming AMSAT is interested in sponsoring more.
>
> So stop crying into your beer over ITAR. The world is not coming to an
> end. Let's work to launch spacecraft within the ITAR limits.
> In the meantime, let the AMSAT-NA BoD navigate it's way through the
> byzantine structure of the US Govt to try to bring about change in ITAR.
>
> Alex Harvilchuck, N3NP
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 609
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