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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. The Next Generation of Amateur Radio Satellites (Alex, N3SQ)
2. Cheap CP 2.4 ghz antenna? (Greg D.)
3. Re: 2M1EUB/P VIA AO7 HAND HELD ANTS (Graham Shirville)
4. Re: ITAR is interesting to me (Bob McGwier)
5. Alaska Special Event Station (Dale Hershberger)
6. Re: Why do hamsats? (Or anything else...) (John B. Stephensen)
7. Re: According to Rocky Jones (John B. Stephensen)
8. Re: ITAR is interesting to me (Samudra Haque)
9. Re: THE DMSP launch (John B. Stephensen)
10. Re: ITAR is interesting to me (k0vty@xxxx.xxxx
11. Re: JOTA Contacts on AO-51 00:55 GMT
(Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
12. Re: ITAR is interesting to me (Bruce Robertson)
13. WD9EWK at the Tucson hamfest and New Mexico yesterday
(Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:44:01 -0400
From: "Alex, N3SQ" <amsat@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Next Generation of Amateur Radio Satellites
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxxx Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4ADB7E11.7040603@xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Robert,
Congratulations for volunteering to organize development of an analog
linear transponder.
Please contact me and the AMSAT Systems Engineering team for mass,
volume, power consumption, and heat generation requirements for your
linear transponder board. We will provide you the interface
specification to the IHU for control and ICB (Interconnect Control
Board) for power distribution.
Oh, and they're not 10 year olds, they are 22 year olds who are about 8
months away from receiving their Electrical Engineering or Computer
Engineering or Mechanical Engineering or Systems Engineering or
Industrial Engineering Degree from the State University of New York
system. And there are 34 (thirty-four) of them working on the NextGen
Project for AMSAT.
I will gladly set up a conference call next week at 6PM EDT on
Wednesday where you can talk with the Systems Engineering team to
discuss the details of the requirements. We are scheduling the CDR
(Critical Design Review) for the last week in January 2010. I expect you
will be ready for this design review because since "such people exist"
and they will have designs that meet the spacecraft's requirements. You
must have the board ready for Systems Integration Test in Mid-March
2010. We will be putting the system on AMSAT's table at the Dayton
Hamvention. Please have your prototype board budget and schedule ready
for PDR (Preliminary Design Review) during the 2nd week of December, 2009.
They are tight time frames but we are just doing evolutionary, not
revolutionary changes to the design. We also have a team of 27
upper-division undergraduate senior Systems Engineers, university System
Engineering professors and experienced professional Systems Engineers
with multiple decades of industry experience working on the project.
I suggest, you and anyone else who wishes to declare their intension to
volunteer on a board project should read our presentation from the AMSAT
Symposium.
Alex Harvilchuck, N3NP/SO4NNP
Program Manager,
AMSAT NextGen Program
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:37:44 -0500
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Why do hamsats? (Or anything else...)
To: <bbj@xxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, k6hx@xxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <COL106-W45FA0985C6EE33197B1B54D6C20@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:57:34 -0400
> > From: bbj@xxxxxxxx.xxx
> > To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
>
I wrote:
> >
>
>> > > In my view better engineering doctrine would imply that we try and
>> > > put the digital transponder ON ISS and let it "cook" there for a bit.
>>
> >
>
you replied
> > Yup, that would be ideal, I'm nominating you to head that project. This
> > is right up your alley, as since you and your friends within the JSC
> > can navigate the political process easily. Lets run this in tandem with
> > the ARISSSat project.
> >
> > Thanks for volunteering!
> >
> > --
> > Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA
> > bbj <at> innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
>
one has to wonder Ben why didnt they try it? There would have been a few
more issues involved in terms of operating the thing on ISS other then just
deploying it (mostly RF work)...
but...
as for me heading the project. I'd deep six the entire software defined
transponder, put it on a development effort with some heavy program
guidance...find some people who wanted to build linear transponders even if
they were overseas (such people exist already) and start flying as many of
those as possible.
Right now what in my view the satellite community needs is a 100 percent
Oscar 7 or 10...not some technological development issues.
If I were king we would have something to offer the USAF if they had spare
lift on a Centaur as they just had...remember the original Oscar's flew on
USAF vehicles.
in the meantime I will continue to keep my technical skills sharp (grin) by
helping the 10 year olds put together a buoy that is going to float in Clear
Lake...
Robert WB5MZO
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:12:57 -0700
From: "Greg D." <ko6th_greg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Cheap CP 2.4 ghz antenna?
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W17A485F532F4F2D0460581A9C20@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi folks,
So I have a pair of 14 dbi flat panel "Wi-Fi" antennas, complete with
pigtail and N connector. I assume they're linearly polarized. Satellite
downlinks really ought to be circular, if possible.
For satellite use, could I simply mount the two on my Az/El rotor boom, with
one rotated 90-degrees from the other, and with a 1.23 inch shim behind it
(for the 1/4 wave offset, if I did the math right), then combine the two
antennas with a simple "T" connector? The impedance would be wrong, but for
Rx only, probably irrelevant. I'd be feeding it into a Kuhne preamp, and
from there to the Drake downconverter.
As a receive setup for the likes of AO-40, this probably wouldn't be all
that good. My 30" screened BBQ Grill with helix feed, after all, was barely
up to the job. But for AO-51's V/US mode, I'd think it would be fine, offer
a whole lot less wind resistance, and weigh a whole lot less too.
Since AO-51's 2.4 ghz antenna is linearly polarized, it probably doesn't
matter whether the result is left-hand or right-hand polarized, so it
doesn't matter that I forget which "hand" rule to use for figuring it out...
I've also heard that these panel antennas may have great numerical gain, but
also have a lot of loss (cheap PC board materials), so maybe this isn't too
good of an idea. What do you think?
Greg KO6TH
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:17:49 +0100
From: "Graham Shirville" <g.shirville@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2M1EUB/P VIA AO7 HAND HELD ANTS
To: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "paul robinson"
<pushbiker2004@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <30D1F0E5A3FD4AEFAB96C14CC175870A@xxxxxxx.xxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Paul,
Can I also point out another challenge that AMSATs face now and will face in
the future that maybe wasn't such a big issue in the past?
"Debris Mitigation" - the recent collisions have made space agencies and
similar authorities extremely aware and concerned - this means that the
recommendation that spacecraft are deorbited (or reorbited higher in the
case of geostationary birds) within 25 years of intended/expected end of
mission is, or will soon become, a requirement rather than a recommendation.
This means that University cubists and similar "expected short operational
life" spacecraft may not find launch opportunities above about 600kms
height.
The silver lining might be that an amateur payload, which could be enabled
after the end of the main mission of a spacecraft, might be seen as a valid
method to push back the "end of life" date and therefore justify a higher
orbit.
That means that we will have to demonstrate, by example and design
justification, that we can provide functionality in the long term rather
than for just a few months/years.
Not impossible but a challenge for our future satellite builders:)
For my money, a really rad hardened linear transponder that is designed to
function with or without batteries and that is on a spacecraft that has one
of these low thrust solar electric propulsion systems to eanble us to reach
MEO would be perfect! But of course this is not a simplesat and would need a
grown up attitude control system and probably other complex parts.
As Drew has suggested - to hitch a ride on someone else bird would be a neat
trick.
cheers
Graham
G3VZV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "paul robinson" <pushbiker2004@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Cc: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 5:56 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 2M1EUB/P VIA AO7 HAND HELD ANTS
>
>> AMSAT ARE YOU LISTENING??? FOOT PRINT BEING IMPORTANT!!
> Of course we are. Satellites aren't launched on desire only.
>
> Earlier this year I was in contact with the only launch provider I could
> find who had launches to over 800km. They had no secondary opportunities
> available.
>
> A launch to 600 to 800 km for an AO-51 sized satellite would cost 400k
> to 800k dollars from all the providers we've spoken to. That's almost as
> unobtainable on our own as the 10 million for Intelsat or 7 million for
> P3E.
>
> I think our best chance to get back to a higher orbit is going to be
> hitching a ride on someone else's satellite, and we are actively
> pursuing this in several directions. If you work for someone who could,
> or know of an opportunity to carry a 1 or 2 kilo package to orbit, and
> provide us with ~5 watts of power, please email me privately with
> details. We have the hardware, as a direct result of the
> SuitSat-2/Arissat-1 effort. All we need is the ride.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:18:52 -0400
From: Bob McGwier <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ITAR is interesting to me
To: k0vty@xxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4ADB944C.8000804@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
k0vty@xxxx.xxx wrote:
> Greetings All:
>
> The Amsat BB is a great source of information we all know:
> I have a few questions about ITAR that I thought might interest more than
> I.
> I tried to be careful of the words I used.
>
> 1.) Do all launched satellites that have US components or interests fall
> under ITAR?
>
Yes
> 2.) When does ITAR interest begin for a launchable Amateur satellite?
>
The minute you wish to discuss what is in it with someone who is not a
US national or want to ship the thing overseas for launch.
> 3.) Is software and firmware that is a part of a Amateur satellite at
> launch fall under ITAR?
>
Most definitely
> 4.) Who normally handles University Cube Sat ITAR issues when Amateur
> frequencies are used?
>
Depends on who is going to do the launch but Cal Poly has been involved
for sure.
> 5.) Who normally handles US Military school Cube-Sat ITAR issues when
> Amateur frequencies are use ?
>
U.S. government entities have a form of an exemption because they are a
component of the U.S. government (and not a for profit company which
might be tempted to sell intellectual property to the highest bidder)
and those equities are handled differently. Even then, ITAR only comes
into play if non-U.S. citizens are involved in the program and/or an
overseas launch is envisioned.
> 6.) When is there no ITAR interest in a Amateur satellite?
>
There is interest. That is what is causing us so much grief. It has
effectively ended the participation of AMSAT-NA in Phase 3E.
> 7.) Did Suitsat one or two (ARISSaT-1) have any ITAR problems since they
> are satellites
> using Amateur frequency?
>
NASA is able to work through different channels than AMSAT has to in
order to get things launched to the space station. AMSAT-NA will be
responsible for ALL transfer of components for ARISSat 1 to the launch
site. We might get assistance from some places in the government but it
will be handled as an export request and we will have to show how we
will protect the equities that need protecting under ITAR.
>
> I have more ITAR related questions.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Joe K0VTY
> ====================
>
ANY aspect dealing with a satellite, software, hardware, ground stations
(hardware, software, protocols, etc.), ideas, random ejaculations from a
diseased mind or whatever that deals with spacecraft or ground stations
are DEEMED EXPORTS when they depart a U.S. citizen and are delivered to
a non-U.S. citizen. It is a nearly impossible task to abide by and one
that really makes me want to throw my hands up in despair and walk away.
There are exceptions for classrooms and courses taught in U.S.
university's. A person, even a non-U.S. citizen, who can pay for taking
a course, may go and involve themselves in course work, even if it is
dealing with the design, construction, and control of spacecraft during
the course work. Some of this applies to your earlier questions but for
US service academies, there are very few non-U.S. citizens in them.
Bob
N4HY
--
(Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio
Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats,
NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC.
"You don't need to see the whole staircase, just
take the first step.", MLK.
Twitter:rwmcgwier
Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:43:00 -0800
From: Dale Hershberger <daleh@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Alaska Special Event Station
To: amsat bbs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Craig Bledsoe <Craig_Bledsoe@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4ADB99F4.3030307@xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I want to thank the stations that I made contact with on the last pass
on AO27 K7WIN, VA7VW, W6ZKH and Sawson, KG6NUB right at the end.
As I stated before check out the KL5O.com website for QSL info. They
have a nice QSL card.
73,
Dale - KL7XJ
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:44:36 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Why do hamsats? (Or anything else...)
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <k6hx@xxxx.xxx>, "Amsat BB"
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <8F149BA0B8794BF6A9FB833A38F150F0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Suitsat 2/ARISSsat is a linear transponder done with DSP. Its seems
perfectly reasonable to me to do transponder signal filtering and command
decoding digitally as it makes things smaller and lighter. You could also
make a better transponder by forming filters around the uplink signals so
downlink power isn't wasted by repeating noise and downlink power could be
allocated equally among users.
Putting ARISSsat on the ISS would be nice but NASA and the Russian space
agency haven't agreed to that.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <k6hx@xxxx.xxx>; "Amsat BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 15:32 UTC
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Why do hamsats? (Or anything else...)
> That still doesnt answer the question of why on Suitsat 2 they should fly
> a digital transponder.
>
> In my view better engineering doctrine would imply that we try and put the
> digital transponder ON ISS and let it "cook" there for a bit.
> Robert WB5MZO
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:54:37 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: According to Rocky Jones
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <FC73329A5A3F465A9A7F6550EDC70FB1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Your math seems to be off. Eagle disappeared due to lack of money to pay for
a launch rather than technical problems. This is much better than paying for
hardware to sit on the ground. Suitsat 2 and ARRISsat are the same thing so
there has been no failure yet.AO-51 is in orbit and working.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "Amsat BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 15:49 UTC
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: According to Rocky Jones
>
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:44:57 +0000
>> From: nigel@xxxxx.xxx
>> To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
>> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
>> Subject: According to Rocky Jones
>>
>> I guesswe need to get you on the design/construction team to show the
>> "experts" how to do it.
>>
>
>
> the experts were very successful with Suitsat 1. Eagle worked out good as
> well didnt it?
>
> Suitsat 2...dellivered on time ...oh well not so much. ARISSsat or
> whatever it is...fourth time is a charm
>
> Robert WB5MZO
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:16:54 -0400
From: Samudra Haque <samudra.haque@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ITAR is interesting to me
To: Bob McGwier <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<d8c724880910181616o75597821ob89334613aa2c4a2@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Hi,
if anyone is interested to investigate ITAR regulations further, they
will have to dig into the published documents at various Dept of
Commerce and other websites. However, here is a blank template in line
with http://pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar_official.html, just
in case, a US Lawful Permanent Resident wants to claim ITAR
self-certification in the field of amateur satellites:
{disclaimer, please check with the organization that you are asking
ITAR specific permission for, for any required supplementary
documentation}
{Warning: the penalty for mis-stating is quite severe}
TEMPLATE
Pursuant to the ITAR?s (International Traffic in Arms Regulations: 22
CFR 120-130) definition of a U.S. Person, 22 CFR 120.15, I {insert
name here} hereby certify that I am a U.S. Person.
Printed Name: ______________________ {be sure this is official and
matches your records as well}
Address: ______________________
Phone: ___________________________________
Alien Registration: ______________________ {required if you are a US
LPR, not required if US Citizen}
Date: ____________________
Signature:
__________________________________________
Affiliation: Member
ABC Corp
Full Address
(Fax signed copy to: _____________________)
Definitions
U.S. Person (22 CFR 120.15) U.S. person means a person (as defined in
section 120.14) who is lawful permanent resident as defined by 8
U.S.C. 1101(a)(20) or who is a protected individual as defined by 8
U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3). It also means any corporation, business
association, partnership, society, trust, or any other entity,
organization or group that is incorporated to do business in the
United States. It also includes any governmental (federal, state or
local) entity.
8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20) The term ''lawfully admitted for permanent
residence'' means the status of having been lawfully accorded the
privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant
in accordance with the immigration laws, such status not having
changed.
8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3) ''Protected individual'' defined As used in
paragraph (1), the term ''protected individual'' means an individual
who - (A) is a citizen or national of the United States, or (B) is an
alien who is lawfully admitted for permanent residence, is granted the
status of an alien lawfully admitted for temporary residence under
section 1160(a) or 1255a(a)(1) of this title, is admitted as a refugee
under section 1157 of this title, or is granted asylum under section
1158 of this title; but does not include (i) an alien who fails to
apply for naturalization within six months of the date the alien first
becomes eligible (by virtue of period of lawful permanent residence)
to apply for naturalization or, if later, within six months after
November 6, 1986, and (ii) an alien who has applied on a timely basis,
but has not been naturalized as a citizen within 2 years after the
date of the application, unless the alien can establish that the alien
is actively pursuing naturalization, except that time consumed in the
Service's processing the application shall not be counted toward the
2-year period.
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Bob McGwier <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> k0vty@xxxx.xxx wrote:
>> Greetings All:
>>
>> The Amsat BB is a great source of information we all know:
>> I have a few questions about ITAR that I thought might interest more than
>> I.
>> I tried to be careful of the words I used.
>>
>> 1.) Do all launched satellites that have US components or interests fall
>> under ITAR?
>>
> Yes
>> 2.) When does ITAR interest begin for a launchable Amateur satellite?
>>
> The minute you wish to discuss what is in it with someone who is not a
> US national or want to ship the thing overseas for launch.
>> 3.) Is software and firmware that is a part of a Amateur satellite at
>> launch fall under ITAR?
>>
> Most definitely
>> 4.) Who normally handles University Cube Sat ITAR issues when Amateur
>> frequencies are used?
>>
> Depends on who is going to do the launch but Cal Poly has been involved
> for sure.
>> 5.) Who normally handles US Military school Cube-Sat ITAR issues when
>> Amateur frequencies are use ?
>>
> U.S. government entities have a form of an exemption because they are a
> component of the U.S. government (and not a for profit company which
> might be tempted to sell intellectual property to the highest bidder)
> and those equities are handled differently. ?Even then, ITAR only comes
> into play if non-U.S. citizens are involved in the program and/or an
> overseas launch is envisioned.
>> 6.) When is there no ITAR interest in a Amateur satellite?
>>
> There is interest. ?That is what is causing us so much grief. ?It has
> effectively ended the participation of AMSAT-NA in Phase 3E.
>> 7.) Did Suitsat one or two (ARISSaT-1) have any ITAR problems since they
>> are satellites
>> ? ? ? using Amateur frequency?
>>
> NASA is able to work through different channels than AMSAT has to in
> order to get things launched to the space station. ?AMSAT-NA will be
> responsible for ALL transfer of components for ARISSat 1 to the launch
> site. ?We might get assistance from some places in the government but it
> will be handled as an export request and we ?will have to show how we
> will protect the equities that need protecting under ITAR.
>>
>> I have more ITAR related questions.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Joe ?K0VTY
>> ====================
>>
>
> ANY aspect dealing with a satellite, software, hardware, ground stations
> (hardware, software, protocols, etc.), ideas, random ejaculations from a
> diseased mind or whatever that deals with spacecraft or ground stations
> are DEEMED EXPORTS when they depart a U.S. citizen and are delivered to
> a non-U.S. citizen. ?It is a nearly impossible task to abide by and one
> that really makes me want to throw my hands up in despair and walk away.
>
> There are exceptions for classrooms and courses taught in U.S.
> university's. ?A person, even a non-U.S. citizen, who can pay for taking
> a course, may go and involve themselves in course work, even if it is
> dealing with the design, construction, and control of spacecraft during
> the course work. ?Some of this applies to your earlier questions but for
> US service academies, ?there are very few non-U.S. citizens in them.
>
> Bob
> N4HY
>
>
>
> --
> (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio
> Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats,
> NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC.
> "You don't need to see the whole staircase, just
> ?take the first step.", MLK.
> Twitter:rwmcgwier
> Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:30:43 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: THE DMSP launch
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <2FD531197E9746139E291D1A1236ACB3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
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Do you think that they would agree to fly anything other than ballast? Have
you talked to the project manager? AMSAT has flown satellites using excess
space in the past because the launch agency agreed years in advance and the
satellites were built to fit in that space.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "Amsat BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 17:12 UTC
Subject: [amsat-bb] THE DMSP launch
>
> "We have a unique opportunity with the Atlas 5/DMSP launch, as DMSP is
> a relatively lighter spacecraft than many of those that fly on Atlas.
> For that reason, we have a tremendous amount of performance margin.
> That's certainly not the case for some future missions that Atlas will
> be flying. So we're taking advantage of the opportunity before us to
> use some of that excess performance margin on the Atlas 5," said Col.
> Michael Moran, the Atlas Group commander.
>
> to bad we didnt have something to use that excess performance...they flew
> ballast on the flight
>
> Robert WB5MZO
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:31:33 CDT
From: k0vty@xxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ITAR is interesting to me
To: rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20091018.183134.948.2.k0vty@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Bob (N4HY)
Thanks for taking the time to ponder for the BB and me some of the twists
and turns
of ITAR issues.
I hope the BB apprecaites your time and effort.
Here are a few more questions?
8.) How do exclusionary zones with in the US work as in the AO-40
integration and shipping
zone, as it relates to ITAR?
9.) How does Amsat-NA insure ITAR security among it's own engineering
staff?
10.) Does the German Government have ITAR like laws for the AMSAT-DL
folks to follow?
11.) Are there any ITAR shipping limitation involved as to methods and
ports?
Global is getting to mean many things it would appear.
Thanks you sir, when you get more spare time .
Regards
Joe Murray K0VTY
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:18:52 -0400 Bob McGwier <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>
writes:
> k0vty@xxxx.xxx wrote:
> > Greetings All:
> >
> > The Amsat BB is a great source of information we all know:
> > I have a few questions about ITAR that I thought might interest
> more than
> > I.
> > I tried to be careful of the words I used.
> >
> > 1.) Do all launched satellites that have US components or
> interests fall
> > under ITAR?
> >
> Yes
> > 2.) When does ITAR interest begin for a launchable Amateur
> satellite?
> >
> The minute you wish to discuss what is in it with someone who is not
> a
> US national or want to ship the thing overseas for launch.
> > 3.) Is software and firmware that is a part of a Amateur satellite
> at
> > launch fall under ITAR?
> >
> Most definitely
> > 4.) Who normally handles University Cube Sat ITAR issues when
> Amateur
> > frequencies are used?
> >
> Depends on who is going to do the launch but Cal Poly has been
> involved
> for sure.
> > 5.) Who normally handles US Military school Cube-Sat ITAR issues
> when
> > Amateur frequencies are use ?
> >
> U.S. government entities have a form of an exemption because they
> are a
> component of the U.S. government (and not a for profit company which
>
> might be tempted to sell intellectual property to the highest
> bidder)
> and those equities are handled differently. Even then, ITAR only
> comes
> into play if non-U.S. citizens are involved in the program and/or an
>
> overseas launch is envisioned.
> > 6.) When is there no ITAR interest in a Amateur satellite?
> >
> There is interest. That is what is causing us so much grief. It
> has
> effectively ended the participation of AMSAT-NA in Phase 3E.
> > 7.) Did Suitsat one or two (ARISSaT-1) have any ITAR problems
> since they
> > are satellites
> > using Amateur frequency?
> >
> NASA is able to work through different channels than AMSAT has to in
>
> order to get things launched to the space station. AMSAT-NA will be
>
> responsible for ALL transfer of components for ARISSat 1 to the
> launch
> site. We might get assistance from some places in the government
> but it
> will be handled as an export request and we will have to show how
> we
> will protect the equities that need protecting under ITAR.
> >
> > I have more ITAR related questions.
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > Joe K0VTY
> > ====================
> >
>
> ANY aspect dealing with a satellite, software, hardware, ground
> stations
> (hardware, software, protocols, etc.), ideas, random ejaculations
> from a
> diseased mind or whatever that deals with spacecraft or ground
> stations
> are DEEMED EXPORTS when they depart a U.S. citizen and are delivered
> to
> a non-U.S. citizen. It is a nearly impossible task to abide by and
> one
> that really makes me want to throw my hands up in despair and walk
> away.
>
> There are exceptions for classrooms and courses taught in U.S.
> university's. A person, even a non-U.S. citizen, who can pay for
> taking
> a course, may go and involve themselves in course work, even if it
> is
> dealing with the design, construction, and control of spacecraft
> during
> the course work. Some of this applies to your earlier questions but
> for
> US service academies, there are very few non-U.S. citizens in
> them.
>
> Bob
> N4HY
>
>
>
> --
> (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio
> Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats,
> NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC.
> "You don't need to see the whole staircase, just
> take the first step.", MLK.
> Twitter:rwmcgwier
> Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTMerseM6huiwDg7vZAreaZevOqcT
QHomkuVte4Hrdxu0CDqAzrmfO/
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:49:06 -0700
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: JOTA Contacts on AO-51 00:55 GMT
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<2e18ad3e0910181649w752eb8e8g5a50a296cae0f272@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Clint!
> Thank you, Mexico!
> Thank you, Northern California and AMSAT Patrick!
> Thank you, Texas!
And don't forget Jeff K7WIN in southeastern Arizona - who you
had your Scouts yell "Hello Arizona" to. It was good to hear you
and your group on the "normal" AO-51 repeater last night.
The Mexican you briefly talked with was Antonio XE2SIV, who
lives just south of the Arizona/Mexico border near the Colorado
River in the city of San Luis (there is also a San Luis AZ across
the border from this San Luis, south of Yuma AZ).
> I did NOT record the pass to initiate QSL cards - but will
> certainly respond to ANY of the 8+ contacts we made on
> both the special JOTA repeater and the "normal" V/U repeater
>. (That's INCLUDING Patrick, who I think had one foot in New
> Mexico and the other in Arizona ...)
Yes, I had parked on the Arizona/New Mexico state line just
off the I-10 freeway for that AO-51 pass and an earlier AO-27
pass. I'll elaborate on my Saturday activities in a separate
-BB post. If you'd like, I can e-mail you my MP3 of that pass
in a separate e-mail.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:11:38 -0300
From: Bruce Robertson <ve9qrp@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ITAR is interesting to me
To: k0vty@xxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<49657a760910181711v52f54424x147aad28bf84bbfd@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 8:31 PM, <k0vty@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi Bob (N4HY)
>
> Thanks for taking the time to ponder for the BB and me some of the twists
> and turns
> of ITAR issues.
>
> I hope the BB apprecaites your time and effort.
> Here are a few more questions?
I have a further question, if I may, and Bob needn't feel obliged to answer
it.
Given that AMSAT-NA is by definition a collaboration between amateurs
on both sides of the US/Canada border, do we have a clear idea where
ITAR stands with respect to Canadian collaborators? I know that in
1999 the previous exemption was revoked, but that in 2001 there were
some changes again.
73, Bruce
VE9QRP
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:03:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Patrick STODDARD \(WD9EWK/VA7EWK\)" <amsat-bb@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] WD9EWK at the Tucson hamfest and New Mexico
yesterday
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <648350.18208.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi!
Yesterday was a busy - and enjoyable - day spent in southern Arizona
and (briefly) southwestern New Mexico. A hamfest, followed by a
drive toward the Arizona/New Mexico border, for a total of 549 miles
(883km) including my drive down to Tucson on Friday evening.
The hamfest was the Old Pueblo Radio Club's annual hamfest in Tucson.
I attended this event last year, which was a very cold morning. For
yesterday, it was warm enough so I didn't need a jacket. In fact, it
was getting rather warm by mid-morning. The better weather meant a
larger crowd showed up - buyers and sellers. I brought the AMSAT
"flag" back to this hamfest, and set up next to the ARRL table.
There was a regular stream of traffic by the table, and good crowds
for the demonstrations (one AO-51 pass, two SO-50 passes, and two
VO-52 passes - although I did not work stations on the first of the
two VO-52 pass).
The AO-51 pass started just before the official start of the
hamfest at 7am (1400 UTC). Despite the fact that this pass went
by to my west, there were 12 QSOs made with stations across much
of the USA along with stations in Canada and Mexico. Not a bad
start. There was a VO-52 pass at 1537 UTC I had hoped to work,
but I had problems hearing the downlink. Normally, I have not
had problems with the 2m downlinks, even with an air force base
a couple of miles/km east of the hamfest. I apologize to those
who were hoping to hear - and work - me on that pass.
SO-50 first came just after 1600 UTC, and there were a couple of
JOTA stations from Texas on there. I worked one of them, along
with 4 other US stations. Then the second (western) VO-52 pass
showed up an hour later. This time, I had no problems hearing
the downlink. Glenn AA5PK in Texas and Bob W7LRD in Washington
state answered my CQ calls. Thanks for the contacts - they
helped bring out a "that's cool" remark from a long-time ham
who was previously active on AO-10 and AO-13, seeing me work
SSB via satellite with two FT-817s and a handheld antenna. The
final SO-50 pass came by a little after 1800 UTC, and 3 more
stations were logged.
Thenks to the Old Pueblo Radio Club for providing me the space for
the AMSAT table, and also to those stations who worked me (and,
on the first VO-52 pass, tried to work me). Having the crowd hear
where the other stations are located helps to show that our
satellites cover a large area - even if the footprints are not what
we might hope for.
After the hamfest, I decided to spend my afternoon and early evening
around the Arizona/New Mexico border. I've operated from several
locations in southeastern Arizona on trips earlier this year, so I
wanted to do something a little different. Instead of parking on a
grid boundary, this trip would be to the state line. From Tucson,
I drove about 135 miles/217km - a little less than 2 hours - on the
I-10 freeway to reach the state line. There is a freeway exit very
close to this spot, and from there I drove on a dirt track up to the
state line (grid DM52lf). Along with the signs on the freeway showing
the state line, there was a concrete marker across the freeway on the
state line. I lined up my truck so the radio gear in the back of it
sat on the state line, and took lots of photos of that and the area -
along with the GPS readout. Then I waited for the 2235 UTC AO-27
pass. Once the AO-27 repeater switched on, I worked 5 stations on
that pass.
This location was a good one for passes to the west, or high passes
to the east. For the AO-51 pass around 2318 UTC, which was a shallow
pass to the northeast, a hill blocked me in that direction. I drove
5 miles/8km east of the state line to reach the town of Road Forks in
New Mexico (grid DM52mf). From here, I had good visibility to the
northeast down to the horizon, and I was ready for this pass. The
first few minutes were busy, when I worked 10 stations in a 3-minute
apan. After that, several minutes passed with many signals or QRM
clogged the uplink. Just before the end of the pass, I was able to
work two more stations before the satellite went away from me. Even
with the period where I logged no QSOs, that was still a good pass.
I went back to the state line for the second AO-51 pass, at 0054 UTC.
This was a very high pass, approximately 65 degrees maximum elevation
to the west, as the sun was setting behind mountains to the west.
Stations were heard from southern Mexico to Alaska and western Canada,
and across most of the USA. Clint's JOTA station was on the air,
and David XE3DX was also operating a JOTA station with a group of
Mexican Scouts (Drew - I will get you more information on the XE JOTA
satellite activity shortly). WD9EWK logged 17 QSOs on this western
pass. Whether it was the rarely-heard grid DM52 or the fact I was
working from a state line, it was an enjoyable pass.
When AO-51 went away for the last time, I quickly disassembled my
antenna and packed up for the 240-mile/386km drive home. Between
the hamfest and the post-hamfest activity at or near the Arizona/New
Mexico state line, I logged a total of 56 QSOs. I will mail QSL cards
to all of those who worked WD9EWK at the hamfest. If you worked me
after the hamfest and want a card, please e-mail me with the QSO
details. I plan on mailing cards from Saturday's activity, along with
the cards from my east-coast trip last week in the coming week.
Thanks to everyone for the QSOs, and especially the QSOs at the hamfest
during my demonstrations. Having some regular satellite operators show
up and make contacts with me - especially when we are mentioning where
the other stations are located - makes a great impression on the crowds
listening in.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 552
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