| |
CX2SA > SATDIG 16.10.09 15:04l 1047 Lines 39607 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB4544
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V4 544
Path: IZ3LSV<IK2XDE<PY1AYH<PY1AYH<CX2SA
Sent: 091016/1255Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:9959 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB4544
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. wonder if a transponder could go on this? (Rocky Jones)
2. Re: PIC rotator control (John Mock KD6PAG)
3. Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then? (Edward Cole)
4. Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web (John B. Stephensen)
5. Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web (John B. Stephensen)
6. off topic (Nick Pugh K5QXJ)
7. Re: Let's Go! (Alan P. Biddle)
8. Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then? (Alan P. Biddle)
9. Re: On the possibility of imaging AO-40 (Alan P. Biddle)
10. Re: K2BSA and ARISS from the National Scouting Museum during
JOTA - 17 Oct. (Keith Pugh)
11. RES: Re: What Are Others Using (PY5LF)
12. Re: The Beef Frank is in the east (Tim - N3TL)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:26:07 -0500
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] wonder if a transponder could go on this?
To: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W59B8FC206B62EDF1DCAB9AD6C40@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0910/15dscovr/index.html
Robert WB5MZO
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:47:28 -0700
From: John Mock KD6PAG <kd6pag@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: PIC rotator control
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <E1Mydmq-00038b-Bh@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
> I am re-visting a rotator controller.
>
> I am curious, should I push the processing of the "compare and make a
decision"
> onto the PIC, or pull that function back into the PC ?
>
> PC is LINUX
>
> I/O is serial
I built a homebrew rotator controller, inspired by WB4APR 'Radio Shack' rotor
controller. But given that both convention serial and parallel ports are no
longer available on most laptops, and alot less common elsewhere, i decided to
use a USB PIC. Initially, that was a EPROM-based PIC16C475 but later migrated
to the flash-programmable PIC18F2550. It also includes a serial port, so that
a laptop could talk to a TTL-level serial port radio.
My intent was to put the pointing smarts into the PIC, but i never got that
far. Currently, it reads the rotor position inside the PIC, but moving the
rotor in software (for both LINUX and Windows). That much works, but i bogged
on the PIC side trying to adapt Microchip's composite USB driver code to work
properly with multiple devices. There were reliability issues, whose details
i have forgotten, that put the whole project, which included a distributable
version, onto the back burner.
I'm sorry i can't be more helpful than that. Eventually, i'll get back to
this project, and amateur satellites in general.
-- KD6PAG (Networking Old-Timer, Satellite QRPer)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:34:05 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
To: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <peter.guelzow@xxxxxx.xx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, samudra.haque@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <200910160434.n9G4Y6I6019090@xxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
So, IF the battery un-shorts, IF the IHU boots
and resets the beacon (S-band, I
assume). Therefore, for the rest of us,
occasional monitoring the beacon frequency would
be good (using the current keps to estimate
Doppler offset). IF detected, then commands
could be attempted. Sounds like a lot of
IF's. Is this a good reason to keep your S-band
downlink equipment working? Think about it.
Integrity of S/C is unknown, so its all a big guessing game.
I remain available (when QRV on L-band with 865
kW EIRP) for command attempts (lat=60.675N, Lon=151.316W).
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 07:20 PM 10/15/2009, Rocky Jones wrote:
>Hello Peter and thanks for the reply...sorry mine was so late, busy
afternoon.
>
>you answered my question. I had "heard" that
>with the arrays folded or based on some
>failures...that AO-40 did not have 360 degree
>coverage in solar cells around its spin access.
>
>If that was the case then the battery was going
>to be essential for any type of recovery...but
>since it is not accurate then I agree if the
>battery will open (do a "seven") then the only
>question would be the Solar angle.
>
>Thank you for a very good and straight forward answer 73
>
>Robert WB5MZO
>
> > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:30:03 +0200
> > From: peter.guelzow@xxxxxx.xx
> > To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx
> > CC: samudra.haque@xxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
> >
> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > that's indeed the big question... We do not know in which attitude the
> > spacecraft is.. is it still spinning very slowly or tumbling? What is
> > the Solar-?-Angel?
> > If the S/C has a good orientation to the sun and the battery opens, than
> > there should be enough power to operate the IHU and Beacon etc... do
> > some magnetorquing to improve attitude.
> > Something like this was done when AO-10 was hit by the last rocket
> > stage, spinning the wrong direction with sun directly on top and almost
> > no power...
> > Unfolding the solar panels would give very high power only when they are
> > oriented towards the sun. With folded solar arrays, all panels around
> > the satellite can still see the sun around it's spin axis.
> > Only when it shines on top or bottom, we will have problems...
> >
> > 73s Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > Rocky Jones wrote:
> > > Peter.
> > >
> > > In the current configuration (or the last known config) of the vehicle
> > > does the vehicle have sufficient solar illumination to "spin" and
> > > maintain the DC busses without a battery?
> > >
> > > Robert WB5MZO
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
> > > <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/>
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
>http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:46:20 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
To: "W4ART Arthur Feller" <afeller@xxxx.xxx>, "Bob McGwier"
<rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: 'Amsat BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <FE673FF080A64DC69CB50BBB5A13920B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=original
1 kW EIRP is allowed if the half-power point is 10 degrees or more above the
horizon. There is an analysis for HEOs in the Eagle 70 cm receiver
documentation.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "W4ART Arthur Feller" <afeller@xxxx.xxx>
To: "Bob McGwier" <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "'Amsat BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 14:22 UTC
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
> Specific information is available on line. Here's the text.
>
> US7 In the band 420?450 MHz and within the following areas, the peak
> envelope power output of a transmitter employed in the amateur service
> shall not exceed 50 watts, unless expressly authorized by the FCC
> after mutual agreement, on a case-by-case basis, between the District
> Director of the applicable field office and the military area
> frequency coordinator at the applicable military base. For areas (e)
> through (g), the appropriate military coordinator is located at
> Peterson AFB, CO.
>
> (a) Arizona, Florida, and New Mexico.
>
> (b) Those portions of California and Nevada that are south of latitude
> 37?10? N.
>
> (c) That portion of Texas that is west of longitude 104? W.
>
> (d) Within 322 km (200 miles) of Eglin AFB, FL (30?30? N, 86?30?
> W); Patrick AFB, FL (28?21? N, 80?43? W); and the Pacific Missile
> Test Center, Point Mugu, CA (34?09? N, 119?11? W).
>
> (e) Within 240 km (150 miles) of Beale AFB, CA (39?08? N, 121?26?
> W).
>
> (f) Within 200 km (124 miles) of Goodfellow AFB, TX (31?25? N,
> 100?24? W) and Robins AFB, GA (32?38? N, 83?35? W).
>
> (g) Within 160 km (100 miles) of Clear, AK (64?17? N, 149?10? W);
> Concrete, ND (48?43? N, 97?54? W); and Otis AFB, MA (41?45? N,
> 70?32? W).
>
>
> So, 435-438 MHz is available with limited output power. No limit on
> antenna again, that I see.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> 73, art.....
> W4ART Arlington VA
>
>
> On 15-Oct-2009, at 9:56 AM, Bob McGwier wrote:
>
>> Did I ever tell you about the time I cranked 130w on 435 in
>> Providence,
>> R.I. and I received an admonishing phone call from OTIS, AFB asking me
>> if I was on the air, reminding me of the limitations and my obligation
>> to warn them? I hope I was not the cause of a false alarm, but I
>> don't
>> know. I had never spoken to them and didn't even know about the
>> exclusion zones. This was ancient days, right after AO-10 was
>> launched. I don't know the state of the rules or enforcement today
>> but
>> that caused some consternation let me tell you. Fred at least has the
>> obligation to ask what the rules are currently.
>>
>> Bob
>> N4HY
>>
>>
>> Ben Jackson wrote:
>>> Sanford, Fred wrote:
>>>
>>>> I hope that AMSAT NA does not use an 70cm uplink, because that band
>>>> is not available for transmitting in all areas of the US. I live
>>>> near Cape Cod, MA and 70cm is not available for transmitting because
>>>> of PAVE PAWS.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Fred:
>>>
>>> I don't think PAVE PAWS prohibits transmission, it only affected
>>> repeater operation. At least I haven't heard anything regarding that,
>>> and I was fairly active on 70cm until last Monday when W1WNS/R was
>>> PAVE
>>> PAWSed.
>>>
>>> ~Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio
>> Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats,
>> NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC.
>> "You don't need to see the whole staircase, just
>> take the first step.", MLK.
>> Twitter:rwmcgwier
>> Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
>> author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> What we can do is to live out our lives as best we can with purpose,
> and with love, and with joy. We can use each day to show those who
> are closest to us how much we care about them, and treat others with
> the kindness and respect that we wish for ourselves. We can learn
> from our mistakes and grow from our failures. And we can strive at
> all costs to make a better world, so that someday, if we are blessed
> with the chance to look back on our time here, we know that we spent
> it well; that we made a difference; that our fleeting presence had a
> lasting impact on the lives of others.
> - Barak
> Obama, 29 Aug 2009
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:29:58 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>,
<lucleblanc6@xxxxxxxxx.xx>, "Amsat BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <FF5247E148534D598D5FA351815C9F3B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
In the past I've dealt with ITAR for commercial products, talked to lawyers
who were experts and written a document for guideing developers within the
company that I worked for at the time. I read ITAR last year and "dealing
with it" is not simple when foreign nationals and satellites are involved.
AMSAT has an attorney that is advising them but they are not in the
situation that I was where the foreign nationals were employees and
customers and you could attempt to control them.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: Rocky Jones
To: kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx ; n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx ; lucleblanc6@xxxxxxxxx.xx ;
Amsat BB
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 21:14 UTC
Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
John. I was told by someone else that the problem was current use...but
if ITAR is the problem, then it can be fixed. ITAR is a pain but it can be
"dealt with" particularly in this case...where there is no dual use
capability.
As for AMSAT's ARISSsat transponder. Well we will see if it works. They
are not exactly burning up the track record with success. We have had this
argument and I am willing to sit back and see if it goes, but it is far to
much project for the program. Most of the folks I know at JSC give it less
then 20 percent chance of working...In fact it was a source of mirth at a
recent BDAY party.
Robert WB5MZO
> From: kd6ozh@xxxxxxx.xxx
> To: orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxxx n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx lucleblanc6@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:06:13 +0000
>
> AMSAT has a U/V linear transponder design in ARISSsat and according to the
> last newsletter no foreign national has signed the agreement that ITAR
> requires.
>
> 73,
>
> John
> KD6OZH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; <lucleblanc6@xxxxxxxxx.xx>; "Amsat BB"
> <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 15:58 UTC
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Symposium News Posted to the Web
>
>
>
> http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/HAMSAT.htm
>
> I am just trying to figure out why AMSAT NA is not taking advantage of
work
> already done.
>
> Robert WB5MZO
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:18:46 -0500
From: "Nick Pugh K5QXJ" <quadpugh@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] off topic
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: 'Patalay Pradeep R' <prp2374@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <017c01ca4e52$6e116900$4a343b00$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is a little off topic but in the long interest of AMSAT
At the University of Louisiana we have a Masters in EE with a telecom
option. He specialty is working with FET published in the IEEE seeking
employment. If you know any one hireling please respond to me off list
Thanks
Nick k5qxj
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:56:56 -0500
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Let's Go!
To: "'Bill Ress'" <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, "'Jeff Davis'"
<stuckbit@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <8CDF8286517B4B07A8934CD1B7070383@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jeff,
I will second Bill's entire statement. With the advent of CubeSats, it
feels as if a large RESET button which must be pushed. Now throw in ITAR,
and there is a big metal box around the button which we need to find the key
to open. ;) Glib comments not withstanding, these are issues which can't
be finessed. However, there is in place a path which will over a reasonable
period of time provide satellites we can use to communicate, develop and
enhance university and institutional connections, and develop the pieces
needed for a HEO satellite. The "beepsat" folks have not particular
interest in a transponder, but imagine an off the shelf RF card which
includes that as a standard feature. Remember that the technology used for
these satellites can be scaled up for a larger and more capable satellite.
Alan
WA4SCA
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Bill Ress
Sent: 14 October, 2009 11:43
To: Jeff Davis
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Let's Go!
Hi Jeff,
Many thanks for your appreciated words of support. The decision was
very, very hard and I know we'll receive many slings and arrows for it,
but while it sure wasn't our preferred project - it is a realistic one.
We all want a HEO or would even settle for a MEO but until someone can
"show us the money" to get our satellite there, we're stuck in LEO,
plain and simple.
I can tell you personally that one answer is to modify a LEO orbit. It's
no at all easy but it is an intuitive alternate for a better orbit. I am
also optimistic, given the papers on the subject at the Symposium, that
creative thought will be given by AMSAT-NA on the subject. It's not an
answer for next year or even five years out, but it's coming.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Jeff Davis wrote:
> I want to offer 'hearty congratulations' to the BOD for the courageous
> decisions made at the recent Space Symposium. I can think of no
> headline more appropriate and welcome for this organization than the
> declaration, "We're going back to space".
>
> Perhaps this decision to move forward with what we can do will also be
> what was needed to get the manufacturers to quit sitting on their
> hands and INNOVATE!
>
> How many threads have been spawned on this BB by someone asking the
> question "what handheld should I buy to use AO-51"..?
>
> The fact that the pat answer is that there aren't any - you need to
> check eBay for a 20 year-old model speaks pitifully of the ham radio
> marketplace in the 21st century.
>
> Given the nature of LEO, portable operations are very common and going
> forward, will be even more so. Who among us wouldn't love a mobile
> sized transceiver that sported true simultaneous dual-band (VHF/UHF)
> operation and a continuously tunable VFO on FM in a 'satellite
> operation mode'?
>
> What would it be worth if that radio also could record all pass data -
> and had a USB port that supported a memory stick so that everything
> received during a pass could stored on it for offline extraction and
> study later when you're back in the shack. It wouldn't even require an
> internal TNC to download telemetry data - the audio file could simply
> be played back (offline) on a PC and the telemetry decoded there.
>
> There are bound to be hundreds of similar ideas and dreams of new
> gear, antennas, and interesting things to do at LEO - let's populate
> the BB with these sorts of things and look forward, not back.
>
> I'm more than ready to turn to a new chapter and get back to shaping
> the future of ham radio in space.
>
> Aren't you?
>
> 73 de Jeff, KE9V
> AMSAT-NA 28350
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:56:56 -0500
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
To: "'Michael Tondee'" <mat_62@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <CC88A68751B4412EB1D317BFF002FBD6@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Michael,
The Politically Correct term is "Propulsion Incident." More seriously,
there were almost certainly cables and wires with damaged insulation which
nevertheless worked fine where they were. Now imagine them flexing or being
disturbed, as would be the case if they attempted to deploy the solar
arrays. For that matter, suppose only one array deployed. That would have
prevented the spin stabilization which was being used. There were a lot of
hard choices made, but they were done with considerable thought and with the
benefit of much experience and consultation.
Alan
WA4SCA
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Michael Tondee
Sent: 14 October, 2009 20:32
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
I guess I need to go back and read the archives because what I remember
reading didn't give me any hope AO-40 would ever be back. Wasn't there
something about that they believed the spacecraft was leaking corrosive
fuel? Doesn't sound to conducive to any type of recovery of anything
where electronics are involved.. I also thought there was talk of a
"catastrophic explosion".
Michael, W4HIJ
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:56:56 -0500
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: On the possibility of imaging AO-40
To: "'Tim - N3TL'" <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, <k6hx@xxxx.xxx>,
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <6AD6936AAF0C458E9655B9AD17584E84@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tim,
Getting an image is clearly possible, but only if you can get a certain
agency known by its initials to do it. Recall that Skylab, circa 1973, took
some damage on launch. Some amazing pictures were provided by said agency,
among others, to assess what was needed for repair. Now imagine 35 years
later. However, that is not going to happen, and in any case, there is
little to be gained, though of course we are all curious.
Alan
WA4SCA
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Tim - N3TL
Sent: 15 October, 2009 07:58
To: k6hx@xxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: On the possibility of imaging AO-40 with earth
boundtelescopes...
Please see Page 19 of the May-June 2008 issue of The AMSAT Journal.
Patrick Seitzer, WA4DSR, provided a photo of AO-40 taken by the University
of Michigan's Curtis-Schmidt Telescope at Cerro Tololo Inter-American
Observatory in Chile. Following is information from a University of Michigan
Web page about the telescope:
"The Curtis-Schmidt telescope is a 0.61 meter aperture f/3.5 Schmidt
telescope located at the Cerro Tololo Inter-American Observatory, about 500
km north of Santiago, Chile. This telescope was originally installed at the
University of Michigan's Portage Lake Observatory in 1950, and moved to the
much clearer skies of north central Chile in 1966.
It is named for Heber D. Curtis, Director of the University of Michigan
Observatories from 1930 until 1942.
The telescope is dedicated to optical studies of artificial space debris for
NASA's Orbital Debris Program Office at the Johnson Space Center. Projects
include optical surveys for debris and follow-up observations to determine
orbits and photometric properties of recently discovered debris."
?
If you find the Journal photo, you'll see a field with dozens of blurred
stars and one sharp litttle white dot, which is AO-40.? I believe it's safe
to say that obtaining an image with the detail necessary to try assess
damage is impossible.
?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
________________________________
From: Mark VandeWettering <kf6kyi@xxxxx.xxx>
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 2:57:40 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] On the possibility of imaging AO-40 with earth bound
telescopes...
> Has there been any serious attempt to take a photograph of the damaged
> bird using ground based optical telescopes while it is in sunlight ?
It's not going to work.? AO-40 just isn't big enough.? For fun,
let's worth through
some of the details.
> With modern telescopes such as
>
http://www.refractortelescopes.co.uk/reviews/orion/orion-shorttube-80-a-refr
actor-telescope/
> or similiar and a modern digital camera and a known RA/DEC co-ordinate
> of the satellite at any point in its orbit, it should be possible get
> a fairly decent picture of what is still up there...
> Note RA / DEC are astronomy co-ordinates which should be able to be
> calculated from AZ/EL or TLE, but I may not be able to do it myself.
> We don't need to track it, but just to image it in several consecutive
> frames. From:
http://www.emergentspace.com/pubs/AIAA_GNC_2002_AMSAT_A040.pdf
Table 1. Nominal Orbit Parameters for AO-40
Orbit Parameter Value
Semimajor Axis (km) 36,245
Perigee Height (km) 1,042
Apogee Height (km) 58,691
Eccentricity 0.797
Inclination (deg) 6.04
Period (hours) 19.1
Let's look at a couple of potential telescopes.? The short tube
refractor that you linked to has an 80 mm (roughly 3 inch) aperature.
According to the Rayleigh criterion, that scope should be able to
resolve angles as small as about 1.5 arc seconds.? ? At perigee, the
resolving power is 1042000 * tan(1.5 arc seconds), or about 7.5 meters
(or 25 feet).? ? To increase the resolution by a factor of 2, you need
to to double the? aperature.? To get resolutions down to 1/2 a foot,
you need an aperature 50x larger, or 150 inches.
This doesn't take into account any effects of atmosphere either.
it's actually fairly rare to get sub arcsecond resolution from any
earthbound telescope without using adaptive optics..? This limits the
practicality of high resolution imaging.
Impressive photos of the space shuttle, ISS and HST have been taken
using amateur equipment, but these objects are both closer and an
order of magnitude larger than AO-40.? While we might be able to
measure spin rate and the like by measuring the brightness curve,
actual imaging of the satellite isn't likely.
73 Mark K6HX
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:03:15 -0500
From: "Keith Pugh" <w5iu@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: K2BSA and ARISS from the National Scouting
Museum during JOTA - 17 Oct.
To: "'Keith Pugh'" <w5iu@xxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: jota@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <48A902C4B0C24D04B51CF3FD435B6F86@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Correction - We will be using K2BSA/5 at the National Scouting Museum.
I'm sorry for the error.
73 - Keith, W5IU
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Pugh [mailto:w5iu@xxxxxx.xxxx
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:23 PM
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Cc: jota@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: K2BSA and ARISS from the National Scouting Museum during JOTA - 17
Oct.
K2BSA will be operating on the Amateur Radio Satellites from the National
Scouting Museum in Irving, TX, from 14:00 to 22:00 UTC on Saturday, 17 Oct.
2009. We will be on as many of the passes listed below as possible. We
will be operating as a portable, hand-held station. Bring your Scouts and
join us on the "Birds."
WinAos QTH: -97.0/32.9 T#: 11612 Sat.: 6 [Standard]
----------------------------------------------------------
Day Object AOS (U) LOS Period maxEl AZ
----------------------------------------------------------
17.10.2009 SO-50 14:41 14:50 09 10 356 - 098
17.10.2009 AO-07 14:47 15:06 19 37 005 - 225
17.10.2009 VO-52 15:35 15:48 13 35 023 - 176
17.10.2009 SO-50 16:20 16:33 13 76 330 - 155
17.10.2009 VO-52 17:12 17:23 11 16 348 - 228
17.10.2009 AO-27 19:10 19:23 13 20 129 - 003
17.10.2009 AO-27 20:48 21:03 15 39 185 - 340
There will also be an ARISS Contact with Scouts at the museum that will take
place starting at 21:53 UTC. This will be a Telebridge contact via WH6PN in
Hawaii. The contact will be on the EchoLink AMSAT Conference and on a wide
area, 442.400 MHz repeater in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.
73 - Keith, W5IU
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:47:59 -0300
From: "PY5LF" <py5lf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] RES: Re: What Are Others Using
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <003c01ca4e5e$e4ace970$ae06bc50$@xxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi
SatPC32 is the best in my opinion , especially if you have an IC910H. I
tried others here , but none beat SatPC32.
At my station , it controls the radio and antenna .
Regards
PY5LF
LUCIANO FABRICIO
CURITIBA-PR-BRAZIL
GG54JM?
http://www.qrz.com/db/py5lf
www.falautomation.com.br
-----Mensagem original-----
De: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx Em nome
de David - KG4ZLB
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 15 de outubro de 2009 21:39
Para: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Assunto: [amsat-bb] Re: What Are Others Using
Seconded!
Buy the licence, donate to AMSAT - easy!
--
David
KG4ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com
Elan Portnoy wrote:
> SatPC32 works great on the linear birds. Takes a little tuning to get on
the right freq, but works nicely after setup.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Joel Black <jbblack@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tim - N3TL <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Beef Frank is in the east
To: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, ka3hdo@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx BB
<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <862778.27331.qm@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Mr. Oler,
I suggest you heed your own advice, as offered to?Mr. Bauer?in the last
paragraph of you email - "Find some manners, stop the internet flame
postings and try and be a 'facts and data' kind of guy in deeds not just
words you will get farther."
Otherwise, you'll remain boorish - and your posts wastes of band space.
After seeing Mr. Bauer's post to the AMSAT-BB the other day, I correctly
deduced that the silly and humorless title of this email was your attempt at
being cute and clever in response. I did find irony in your metaphor,
however - given the rancid filler that you encase in a vast majority of
emails you post to this board. That alone helps me agree whole-heartedly
with your assertion below that you are not a NASA know-it-all; I have
believed the opposite to be true since the first post from you I read - and
this one adds more validation to that belief..
Tim Lilley - N3TL
Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
________________________________
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: ka3hdo@xxxxxxx.xxxx Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14:49 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] The Beef Frank is in the east
Pasture...along with the milking cows, a few goats, and yes the chickens and
ducks.? The Longhorn is there more or less for show (no tribute to George
Abbey BTW)
Sorry for the late reply Frank.? My wife and I are pregnant so we spent the
afternoon looking around The CLEAR LAKE Texas? and Santa Fe area for
hospitals that are on either of our health insurance plans..? Then we took
the in laws to dinner at The Aquarium in KEMAH (the boardwalk at Kemah) (it
is the mother in laws birthday), after which we had some pleasant
conversation.
I stress our itinerary because it tells the group what you must already know
(since you are in the keyboard commando mode) that I live in the area of
Houston that the JSC calls home. Running the call sign would have told you
that.? ? The House is about 1.2 nm from the North gate of JSC just south on?
Space Center.? In normal times I jog the course there and back four times in
the morning.? I've lived in? Clear Lake for quite a bit.? Still own the
house there although after my latest DXpedition the housesitter wont be
clear of it until Jan next year.? Fortunately we have the farm in Santa Fe.
Since I live in the area I? have quite a few
friends/chums/associates/neighbors/etc who are current employees at NASA or
the contractors.? They know I am interested in space policy, amateur radio
(you should see the setup at the house in Clear Lake), and share things.
That is one source of information and it is pretty good. It is good enough
for the statement I made.? (I am amused that you ran me through the data
base, but caution you that NASA watch pointed out how flawed that data base
is...)
So after conversation with the family and before responding to the post you
put out I fed it through the USC "internet flame war" program that is
standard US government affair and found out that both you and Jeff Hanley
managed a email that touched all the "internet flame war" points.? Two peas
in a pod I guess
Frank, I dont respond kindly to emails where the person sending puts up a
claim that I didnt make (""know all" that is going on within NASA") and then
starts his own rant with a question based on that premise ("? And how
> are you all knowing???).? And does it all in public not in a private
email.? People on the board have asked me what I do privately and I've been
pleased to give them chapter line and verse.? This time I'll be kind and
just chalk it up to you having gone zero impedance to ground over how things
are going.
I did find the "
> Or are you using another alias besides Robert Oler or Rocky Jones?"
amusing.?
It is the weakest of the internet flame tactics you use and the most amusing
.? It is also even more nonsensical then the rest of the post from you.? I
have signed everything on this BB and as best I can tell on the "internets"
(to quote our last President) with my full name or my name that has some
identifier with it so it is not just a "Robert".? That is where the call
sign comes in handy.? With me posting my call sign if you are confused, well
that is your fault, not mine.? The line you use is a little above "when did
you stop beating you're wife" in logical validity.
Finally..
As for 80 percent of "suitsat 2 failing"...actually that is the consensus
among a lot of folks at the center.? I give "Suitsat 2" less then 10 percent
chance of working.? That didnt take oh several decades of dealing with
complex programs or a bunch of US government schools or a lot of engineering
degrees to figure out.? It is really not "rocket science"...Suitsat 1 was a
bomb and it was much simpler.? Now they are trying something more
complicated...? I am not even sure it deploys.? If it flops well it is hard
to see a lot of ham radio traction on the space station after that.
But Just think, if it works you can tell me I was wrong!? Wont that be fun??
Are you upset because you have heard the same thing?? LOL
Find some manners, stop the internet flame postings and try and be a "facts
and data" kind of guy in deeds no just words you will get farther. If you
cant then I can get more aggressive!.? Have a great Thursday night.
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO
> From: ka3hdo@xxxxxxx.xxx
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:21:10 -0400
> Subject: [amsat-bb]? Where's the Beef?
>
> Robert,
>
> You commented:
>
> "As for AMSAT's ARISSsat transponder.? Well we will see if it works.? They
> are not exactly burning up the track record with success.? We have had this
> argument and I am willing to sit back and see if it goes, but it is far to
> much project for the program.? Most of the folks I know at JSC give it less
> then 20 percent chance of working...In fact it was a source of mirth at a
> recent BDAY party."
>
> All your e-mails give the impression that you are well positioned within JSC
> and "know all" that is going on within NASA.? But when I did a Search for
> your name within the NASA employee and contractor database, the database
> comes up empty handed.?
>
> Given that I am a "facts and data" kind of guy, what up with this?? And how
> are you all knowing???? What do you really do for a living??? Who are these
> people you are talking to that are so opinionated?
>
> Or are you using another alias besides Robert Oler or Rocky Jones?? Or is
> all you are posting on this listserv just your own kind of fluff??
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> Frank, KA3HDO
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ?
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 544
****************************************
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
