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CX2SA > SATDIG 26.09.09 21:04l 1058 Lines 33154 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 090926/1902Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:5361 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB4500
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Road Trip to Georgia (USA) (w6zkh@xxxxxxx.xxxx
2. AO-7 help (Randy)
3. Re: AO-7 help (PE0SAT)
4. objects nunber (Nick Pugh K5QXJ)
5. Re: AO-7 help (Andrew Glasbrenner)
6. Re: AO-7 help (Glen Zook)
7. WAS - Award - Mistake (K7WIN - Jeff)
8. Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE (Mike Ryan)
9. Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE (Joe)
10. Re: AO-7 help (Andrew Glasbrenner)
11. Re: AO-7 help (Joe)
12. Re: AO-7 help (Joe)
13. Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE (Edward Cole)
14. Re: AO-7 help (Rocky Jones)
15. RS-28 CW telemetry (Mike Rupprecht)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:20:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: w6zkh@xxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Road Trip to Georgia (USA)
To: amsat-bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<680590487.1056581253971227388.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxx.xxxxx
xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello All: We've have started out road trip vacation to the state of
Georgia, and will be operating a various locations along the way and the
return. Have no idea where we will stop, nor what grids, but will be set up
for any of the 3 FM bird passes in the late afternoon and mornings. If you
hear me on, give me a shout. I QSL 100% via direct or eQSL.cc. Hope to hear
the calls working with HT and ELK,
73 de John W6ZKH
now in DM65
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:41:46 -0400
From: "Randy" <RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-7 help
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <015001ca3eaf$176f9cf0$0301a8c0@xxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all ..
I am having trouble working AO-07 ..
Could just be newbie syndrome... But I truly
Am not sure why I cant..
I have an FT-897D, 13 element 2 meter yagi and a 11 element 432 yagi.
I can also effectively use the 2 meter yagi on 432.. Matches well
And have used it on repeaters up to 60 miles away on 440..
I use the translation table provided by AMSAT and the books..
Have those programmed into the radio as splits..
LSB 432.XXX up and USB 145.XXX down .
( mode B like this morning )
I can hear PLENTY of QSO's.
I cannot make contact with anyone ..
I even got a little desperate and pulsed my handheld
On the 432 antenna ( like CW dits ) ( harder to id that way LOL )
And tuned the receiver and cannot find my signal ..
Tell me its somehting stupid and simple LOL
v/r
Baffled
Randy - N2CUA
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:07:06 +0200
From: "PE0SAT" <pe0sat@xxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<610bdf64b83a4d64f74078b2db3843b2.squirrel@xxxxxxx.xxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
On Sat, September 26, 2009 15:41, Randy wrote:
> Hi all ..
Hi Randy,
> And tuned the receiver and cannot find my signal ..
Here is an exmaple I used yesterdag
RX 145.952.500 USB
TX 432.143.950 LSB
Give it a try.
>
> Randy - N2CUA
73's Jan - PE0SAT
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:08:52 -0500
From: "Nick Pugh K5QXJ" <quadpugh@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] objects nunber
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <010001ca3eb2$e1427450$a3c75cf0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What is the best guess on the object numbers on the last two group of cube
sat launched recently?
Thanks
nick
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:30:06 -0400
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4ABE256E.3000700@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I use the translation table provided by AMSAT and the books..
> Have those programmed into the radio as splits..
>
> LSB 432.XXX up and USB 145.XXX down .
> ( mode B like this morning )
> I can hear PLENTY of QSO's.
> I cannot make contact with anyone ..
>
>
Those splits are only right when Doppler is zero. Other wise, you have
around +/-7 khz shift to deal with. It's really tough to work AO-7
half-duplex with no Doppler tuning. REALLY tough. If you have a PC
nearby, I'd recommend trying to use SatPC32 to control the Doppler shift
during the pass. CAT cables are pretty cheap on Ebay, and really easy to
set up with the 897.
Also, since you are using gain antennas AND are half duplex, you should
make sure you keep the power output low, like 5 watts or so, since you
can't hear if you our overdriving the uplink and making the satellite FM
for everyone.
73, Drew KO4MA
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glen Zook <gzook@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx Andrew Glasbrenner
<glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <645018.96182.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I haven't used AO-7 for some time (need to revise my antennas to do so
again). But, back in the "goode olde dayes" (when the satellite first went
into orbit) we didn't have any problems with Doppler. The accepted method
was to leave the transmit frequency alone and keep one hand on the receiver
to compensate for the frequency shift and send CW with the other hand (or
hold the microphone for SSB). No one even thought of compensating for
Doppler any other way.
Of course at the time everyone used a separate receiver and transmitter (no
transceivers) so you could keep the receiver active while transmitting.
There were hundreds of QSOs made on each orbit and everyone had a "ball".
Glen, K9STH
AMSAT 239 / LM 463
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
Those splits are only right when Doppler is zero. Other wise, you have
around +/-7 khz shift to deal with. It's really tough to work AO-7
half-duplex with no Doppler tuning. REALLY tough. If you have a PC nearby,
I'd recommend trying to use SatPC32 to control the Doppler shift during the
pass. CAT cables are pretty cheap on Ebay, and really easy to set up with
the 897.
Also, since you are using gain antennas AND are half duplex, you should make
sure you keep the power output low, like 5 watts or so, since you can't hear
if you our overdriving the uplink and making the satellite FM for everyone.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:23:33 -0700
From: "K7WIN - Jeff" <k7win@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] WAS - Award - Mistake
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <002601ca3ebd$4f992ca0$eecb85e0$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I received my WAS award yesterday. Upon opening it I noticed that it did not
indicate "Satellite" and was numbered #53,981.
I initially indicated on my application that it was for Satellite by
checking the "Satellite" box.
What is the WAS Satellite Award supposed to have displayed on the Award and
what are the numbers up to?
Thank you,
Jeff - K7WIN
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:33:44 -0400
From: "Mike Ryan" <mryan301@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <1A30B7CF64A04368A75FC855CB83F90F@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've had my battles with desense. Originally I was going in the direction
that the RX antenna was in the envelope of the TX. It made sense and some
elmers suggested it. Even at low power (5-10W) and separating antennas by
30 ft it would still de-sense, but not as pronounced (omnidirectional
antennas).
I fixed it two ways. The biggest poroblem was my linear. To be kind to my
FT857 I ran it at low power through a mirage amp to get output up to 35
watts or so max. 90% of my problem was that amp (which I assume was pushing
sprurious or harmonics). If I took it offline and ran the FT857 at the same
35W the desense was greatly reduced but not quite gone. The remainder was
taken care of by using a second diplexer as a poor mans low pass filter.
Just put a dummy load on the side I didnt need.
Now the omnis can be close without this problem and I even built a pair of
cheap Jpole yagis on the same boom (definately in the same envelope) but no
desense. I never got around to trying another amp. I was just delighted to
have the problem solved.
So there's my story in case it helps someone else consider this possibility
instead of spending all the hours chasing it that I had to endure!
Mike WB1AAT
-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx On
Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Gary "Joe" Mayfield
Cc: 'AMSAT-BB'
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE
as in the texts below, there is something else going on here.
That Diplexor can not be all that bad. two reasons.
How many db down is the front to side of that antenna?
and I can not imaging someone would sell a diplexor that has greater
than 20 db of losses.
because of the statement that how criticalpolarity was with the
original, and now the antenna has to be nearly 90 degrees cross
polarized to make it drop out uhh
that close to 30 db,
at least 20,,
something else is going on here
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:40:17 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE
To: Jeff Yanko <wb3jfs@xxx.xxx>
Cc: 'AMSAT-BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, "Gary \"Joe\" Mayfield"
<gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4ABE35E1.1020107@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
No, Cross polarization in the real world is 20 to 30 db loss.
In the theoretical world it's infinite,
http://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200101/msg01220.html
Joe WB9SBD
Jeff Yanko wrote:
> Hi Joe and all,
>
> I doubt if the Arrow diplexer has 20dB of loss. If it did, we'd never
> receive a signal! :)
>
> I believe somebody here on the -bb will be performing a test on the
> Arrow diplexer using a vector/network analyzer. It will be
> interesting to say the least. There were preliminary reports saying
> the device had a loss anywhere from 2.65 to 2.80dB. That's close
> enough to 3dB which is technically half power loss. Add the loss of a
> short piece of coax and it will certainly be pushed over the 3dB line.
>
> If I recall correctly, cross polarity is also a 3dB loss. I have
> noticed that when I rotate the antenna I might get a stronger downlink
> but I never lose it when I rotate it back. Before, when I would do
> that it would drop once I rotated in either direction from the peak
> signal. Basically what is going on is the lossy device is removed and
> replaced with a more efficient one, that extra net gain you just
> boosted now shows how the system on the antenna side of the diplexer
> is truly performing.
>
> I don't have an antenna analysis program to perform a test, but what
> does a 7 element 440 yagi pattern look like and what is its overall gain?
>
> What we need to do is break down the antenna configuration into 3
> segments, see what their losses and gains are then combine them for
> the overall figure. The 3 segment would be the antenna, the diplexer
> and the coax. Each one will be tested individually to give an accurate
> number for each.
>
>
> 73,
>
>
> Jeff WB3JFS
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" <nss@xxx.xxx>
> To: "Gary "Joe" Mayfield" <gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> Cc: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:42 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE
>
>
>> as in the texts below, there is something else going on here.
>>
>> That Diplexor can not be all that bad. two reasons.
>>
>> How many db down is the front to side of that antenna?
>>
>> and I can not imaging someone would sell a diplexor that has greater
>> than 20 db of losses.
>>
>> because of the statement that how criticalpolarity was with the
>> original, and now the antenna has to be nearly 90 degrees cross
>> polarized to make it drop out uhh
>>
>> that close to 30 db,
>>
>> at least 20,,
>>
>> something else is going on here
>>
>> Gary "Joe" Mayfield wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Another issue I came across was how wide the beamwidth is of the Arrow
>>>> Antenna between the Arrow diplexer and the new diplexer. I was
>>>> wondering
>>>>
>>>>
>>> if
>>>
>>>
>>>> this was going to happen and it did. The reason that this happened
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>>
>>> with
>>>
>>>
>>>> the old diplexer, the signal attenuated so much that you had to be
>>>> pointed
>>>> right smack dab on the bird, a few degrees off and you lost the
>>>> signal.
>>>> Now, with the new diplexer, you can point the beam in the general
>>>>
>>>>
>>> direction
>>>
>>>
>>>> and still copy the bird. In most cases I had to turn the beam 90
>>>> degrees
>>>> before I completely lost the downlink! Twisting the antenna to make
>>>> polarization changes makes absolutely no difference now. This also
>>>> attributes to the fact that now I'm copying the entire pass without
>>>>
>>>>
>>> dropouts
>>>
>>>
>>>> or fades. Makes sense. What I've regained over the lossy diplexer
>>>> makes
>>>>
>>>>
>>> up
>>>
>>>
>>>> for any polarization differences, etc. for a better copiable signal.
>>>>
>>>> Next weekend I will have to try more passes and get a feel of how much
>>>>
>>>>
>>> this
>>>
>>>
>>>> system has changed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Jeff WB3JFS
>>>> Las Vegas, NV
>>>> DM26
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
>>>> author.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
>>> author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
>>> author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.416 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2395 - Release Date:
>>> 09/25/09 17:52:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.416 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2396 - Release Date: 09/26/09
05:51:00
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:52:59 -0400
From: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: Glen Zook <gzook@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4ABE38DB.2050107@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Glen Zook wrote:
> I haven't used AO-7 for some time (need to revise my antennas to do so
again). But, back in the "goode olde dayes" (when the satellite first went
into orbit) we didn't have any problems with Doppler. The accepted method
was to leave the transmit frequency alone and keep one hand on the receiver
to compensate for the frequency shift and send CW with the other hand (or
hold the microphone for SSB). No one even thought of compensating for
Doppler any other way.
>
> Of course at the time everyone used a separate receiver and transmitter
(no transceivers) so you could keep the receiver active while transmitting.
There were hundreds of QSOs made on each orbit and everyone had a "ball".
>
> Glen, K9STH
> AMSAT 239 / LM 463
>
> Website: http://k9sth.com
>
The half-duplex part is what makes it hard. I ran from 1992 until about
2006 without computer tuning, although I followed the current AMSAT
protocol of tuning the higher of the two frequencies. You don't drift
into others as much that way. I've tried this all ways, and if you are
going to run half-duplex, life is much easier with CAT tuning.
73, Drew KO4MA
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:59:41 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: Glen Zook <gzook@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4ABE3A6D.3060408@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
AMEN!
Finally someone on this board, that also remembers what the big knob on
the face of the radio is used for.
Maybe it's a age thing of when you got into the hobby? Like when I got
into this hobby when Novices were only allowed crystal control. It
wasn't all that different from using the birds.
You listened to your transmit freq. to see if it was clear. and threw
out a CQ.
THEN YOU TUNED THE VFO and I mean a LOT like up and down the whole
band looking to hear your call. almost everyone was not by choice
operated split back then. You could only afford so many crystals. I
remember many times CQing on my 1 crystal for 40 meters 7.109 and find
someone calling me at 7.127 or whatever freq. they happened to own.
You had to listen to not only your own transmit freq. in case a general
or someone with a VFO called you on freq., or if nothing heard started
tuning around looking for someone off freq.
It was not un common to call CQ then tune for a minute or so looking.
and everyone knew this so if you were answering a CQ but way off freq.
you made a long call like maybe up to a minute even to give the guy a
chance to find you calling him.
It just drives me insane to hear people complaining about a little
doppler, turn the big knob DUH!
Joe WB9SBD
Glen Zook wrote:
>I haven't used AO-7 for some time (need to revise my antennas to do so
again). But, back in the "goode olde dayes" (when the satellite first went
into orbit) we didn't have any problems with Doppler. The accepted method
was to leave the transmit frequency alone and keep one hand on the receiver
to compensate for the frequency shift and send CW with the other hand (or
hold the microphone for SSB). No one even thought of compensating for
Doppler any other way.
>
>Of course at the time everyone used a separate receiver and transmitter (no
transceivers) so you could keep the receiver active while transmitting.
There were hundreds of QSOs made on each orbit and everyone had a "ball".
>
>Glen, K9STH
>AMSAT 239 / LM 463
>
>Website: http://k9sth.com
>
>
>--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>Those splits are only right when Doppler is zero. Other wise, you have
around +/-7 khz shift to deal with. It's really tough to work AO-7
half-duplex with no Doppler tuning. REALLY tough. If you have a PC nearby,
I'd recommend trying to use SatPC32 to control the Doppler shift during the
pass. CAT cables are pretty cheap on Ebay, and really easy to set up with
the 897.
>
>Also, since you are using gain antennas AND are half duplex, you should
make sure you keep the power output low, like 5 watts or so, since you can't
hear if you our overdriving the uplink and making the satellite FM for
everyone.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.416 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2396 - Release Date: 09/26/09
05:51:00
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:06:00 -0500
From: Joe <nss@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>,
amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4ABE3BE8.9000205@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Not Hard
Just Skill,
Just like my other post about operating as a Novice in the days of only
crystal control. You did not operate full duplex on 40 meters, yet we
operated contests on one transmit freq and listened to the whole band
for someone calling us.
We all have just gotten incredibly lazy.
Joe WB9SBD
Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
>Glen Zook wrote:
>
>
>>I haven't used AO-7 for some time (need to revise my antennas to do so
again). But, back in the "goode olde dayes" (when the satellite first went
into orbit) we didn't have any problems with Doppler. The accepted method
was to leave the transmit frequency alone and keep one hand on the receiver
to compensate for the frequency shift and send CW with the other hand (or
hold the microphone for SSB). No one even thought of compensating for
Doppler any other way.
>>
>>Of course at the time everyone used a separate receiver and transmitter
(no transceivers) so you could keep the receiver active while transmitting.
There were hundreds of QSOs made on each orbit and everyone had a "ball".
>>
>>Glen, K9STH
>>AMSAT 239 / LM 463
>>
>>Website: http://k9sth.com
>>
>>
>>
>The half-duplex part is what makes it hard. I ran from 1992 until about
>2006 without computer tuning, although I followed the current AMSAT
>protocol of tuning the higher of the two frequencies. You don't drift
>into others as much that way. I've tried this all ways, and if you are
>going to run half-duplex, life is much easier with CAT tuning.
>
>73, Drew KO4MA
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.416 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2396 - Release Date: 09/26/09
05:51:00
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:19:48 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results -
UPDATE
To: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <200909261619.n8QGJn9W038226@xxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Folks,
I think you are focusing only on transmitting loss and have
overlooked the impact that loss has on noise figure. If your HT has
a low NF (doubtful) adding 3-dB loss in Rx will raise the NF 3-dB
higher. The actual loss of sensitivity could be more than that.
Filter's size determines efficiency and insertion loss. The tiny
diplexer in the Arrow is a compromise between performance and
size. I have a Comet 416B and even it has some loss about 47w out
for 50w in. But that is not anywhere near 3-dB. I use mine to
connect my dual-band vertical to my FT-847 which has separate
connectors for 2m and 70cm. I used this antenna to contact the ISS a
few years ago (worked well because the ISS never rises above 11-deg.
elevation, here).
But I do not use if for SSB or other weak-signal use.
Ed - KL7UW
At 02:26 AM 9/26/2009, Jeff Yanko wrote:
>Hi Joe and all,
>
>I doubt if the Arrow diplexer has 20dB of loss. If it did, we'd never
>receive a signal! :)
>
>I believe somebody here on the -bb will be performing a test on the Arrow
>diplexer using a vector/network analyzer. It will be interesting to say the
>least. There were preliminary reports saying the device had a loss anywhere
>from 2.65 to 2.80dB. That's close enough to 3dB which is technically half
>power loss. Add the loss of a short piece of coax and it will certainly be
>pushed over the 3dB line.
>
>If I recall correctly, cross polarity is also a 3dB loss. I have noticed
>that when I rotate the antenna I might get a stronger downlink but I never
>lose it when I rotate it back. Before, when I would do that it would drop
>once I rotated in either direction from the peak signal. Basically what is
>going on is the lossy device is removed and replaced with a more efficient
>one, that extra net gain you just boosted now shows how the system on the
>antenna side of the diplexer is truly performing.
>
>I don't have an antenna analysis program to perform a test, but what does a
>7 element 440 yagi pattern look like and what is its overall gain?
>
>What we need to do is break down the antenna configuration into 3 segments,
>see what their losses and gains are then combine them for the overall
>figure. The 3 segment would be the antenna, the diplexer and the coax.
>Each one will be tested individually to give an accurate number for each.
>
>
>73,
>
>
>Jeff WB3JFS
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Joe" <nss@xxx.xxx>
>To: "Gary "Joe" Mayfield" <gary_mayfield@xxxxxxx.xxx>
>Cc: "'AMSAT-BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
>Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:42 PM
>Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arrow antenna reconfiguration results - UPDATE
>
>
> > as in the texts below, there is something else going on here.
> >
> > That Diplexor can not be all that bad. two reasons.
> >
> > How many db down is the front to side of that antenna?
> >
> > and I can not imaging someone would sell a diplexor that has greater
> > than 20 db of losses.
> >
> > because of the statement that how criticalpolarity was with the
> > original, and now the antenna has to be nearly 90 degrees cross
> > polarized to make it drop out uhh
> >
> > that close to 30 db,
> >
> > at least 20,,
> >
> > something else is going on here
> >
> > Gary "Joe" Mayfield wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>>Another issue I came across was how wide the beamwidth is of the Arrow
> >>>Antenna between the Arrow diplexer and the new diplexer. I was wondering
> >>>
> >>>
> >>if
> >>
> >>
> >>>this was going to happen and it did. The reason that this happened was
> >>>
> >>>
> >>with
> >>
> >>
> >>>the old diplexer, the signal attenuated so much that you had to be
> >>>pointed
> >>>right smack dab on the bird, a few degrees off and you lost the signal.
> >>>Now, with the new diplexer, you can point the beam in the general
> >>>
> >>>
> >>direction
> >>
> >>
> >>>and still copy the bird. In most cases I had to turn the beam 90 degrees
> >>>before I completely lost the downlink! Twisting the antenna to make
> >>>polarization changes makes absolutely no difference now. This also
> >>>attributes to the fact that now I'm copying the entire pass without
> >>>
> >>>
> >>dropouts
> >>
> >>
> >>>or fades. Makes sense. What I've regained over the lossy diplexer makes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>up
> >>
> >>
> >>>for any polarization differences, etc. for a better copiable signal.
> >>>
> >>>Next weekend I will have to try more passes and get a feel of how much
> >>>
> >>>
> >>this
> >>
> >>
> >>>system has changed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>73,
> >>>
> >>>Jeff WB3JFS
> >>>Las Vegas, NV
> >>>DM26
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> >>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>>program!
> >>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> >>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> >>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> >>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> >>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>Version: 8.5.416 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2395 - Release Date:
> >>09/25/09 17:52:00
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@xxxxxxx.xxx
======================================
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:35:03 -0500
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
To: <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, <rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W572E3F2EBB1654B478A949D6D80@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Drew. you and I obviously have our differences. However you are one of the
folks on this board (and on the BOD) who consistently helps others on the
sats...and does it in a "bravo zulu" (well done) manner
Robert WB5MZO
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:30:06 -0400
> From: glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> To: RSwart1@xxxxx.xx.xxx
> CC: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-7 help
>
>
> >
> > I use the translation table provided by AMSAT and the books..
> > Have those programmed into the radio as splits..
> >
> > LSB 432.XXX up and USB 145.XXX down .
> > ( mode B like this morning )
> > I can hear PLENTY of QSO's.
> > I cannot make contact with anyone ..
> >
> >
>
> Those splits are only right when Doppler is zero. Other wise, you have
> around +/-7 khz shift to deal with. It's really tough to work AO-7
> half-duplex with no Doppler tuning. REALLY tough. If you have a PC
> nearby, I'd recommend trying to use SatPC32 to control the Doppler shift
> during the pass. CAT cables are pretty cheap on Ebay, and really easy to
> set up with the 897.
>
> Also, since you are using gain antennas AND are half duplex, you should
> make sure you keep the power output low, like 5 watts or so, since you
> can't hear if you our overdriving the uplink and making the satellite FM
> for everyone.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:16:44 +0200
From: "Mike Rupprecht" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] RS-28 CW telemetry
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <013a01ca3ed5$81d1ffe0$8575ffa0$@xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
17:45 UTC strong CW beacon on 435.266 MHz
rs28 ubs163 uaba165 uabb165 ibs3 iaba126 iabb126 ispa0 ispb126 taba132
tabb131 tsep135 mcon69 sma138 smb123 mra6 mrb30
rs28 ubs16. uaba179 uabb179 ibs1 iaba123 iabb133 ispa4 ispb129 taba132
tabb131 tsep135 mcon69 sma98 smb85 mra6 mrb30
rs28 ubs165 uaba167 uabb167 ibs3 iaba126 iabb126 ispa0 ispb127 taba132
tabb131
I used NORAD #35869. Total difference in doppler ~1KHz, not sure if this is
the right TLE
See here: http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?p=8471
73, Mike
DK3WN
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 500
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