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CX2SA > SATDIG 13.09.09 07:36l 916 Lines 31110 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Volunteered (Mark Lunday)
2. FN51 operations (Dave Webb KB1PVH)
3. AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 (Mark L. Hammond)
4. Re: (Reporting web pages needing updates) (John P. Toscano)
5. Re: AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 (Andrew Rich)
6. Re: Volunteered (Bill Ress)
7. Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones)
8. Re: Volunteered (rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxxx
9. Re: Volunteered (Dale Hershberger)
10. Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones)
11. Re: Volunteered (Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF)
12. Re: Volunteered (Kevin Smith)
13. Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones)
14. Re: Volunteered (Andrew Rich)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:50:30 -0400
From: "Mark Lunday" <mlunday@xx.xx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: "'Rocky Jones'" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>,
<bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx 'Amsat BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <002f01ca33ea$aa7245e0$ff56d1a0$@xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Chiming in, after watching this go back and forth and feeling frustrated
here.
The issue here is about holding volunteers accountable as if they were paid
staff. It's about expectations as well.
Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. What
we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, anyway) have
an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). None of the volunteers can provide
that kind of support day-in and day-out. Holding volunteers to that
standard is, in my opinion, a mistake.
Having said that, what AMSAT volunteers have accomplished is SO FAR ABOVE
what a normal volunteer organization achieves, that it BOGGLES THE MIND. I
have been an AMSAT member for 18 months and active on satellites for about
as long. To see what has been achieved by volunteers, spanning across
geography, is AMAZING. The ability to ask ANY question about satellites in
general and AMSAT in particular on this BB, and get an accurate response in
a timely fashion is impressive. The collective intellectual capital and
horsepower is deep and very valuable.
And THAT'S the issue! We're so accustomed to outstanding performance on so
many things with AMSAT that we start *expecting* above and beyond in all
cases. That's not always realistic.
I had a few 1:1 threads with some folks about this over the past few days,
and I think we could address some of the problems if we had a paid position
or two. I understand that this is being presented to the ARRL in the near
future (additional funding support)
Another side note: it sounds like more communication/interaction would help
clarify some of these questions and concerns. Regular status reporting on
progress for specific projects would help the community understand:
(1) the progress
(2) the risks
(3) the level of effort provided by the volunteers
(4) opportunities for additional input for addressing problems (leveraging
some of that powerful intellectual capital and horsepower in our community).
Meanwhile, as a project manager w/ PMP cert, Electrical Engineer, and a 35
year ham with military background, I am raising my hand as a volunteer for
helping with the planning of future AMSAT projects
Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb
wd4elg@xxxx.xxx
http://wd4elg.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:18:07 +0000
From: "Dave Webb KB1PVH" <kb1pvh@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] FN51 operations
To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<1853931992-1252790287-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
401973086-@xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello all,
I have arrived at FN51 on Cape Cod. Unfortunately, it is raining,
thundering, and a bit of lightning. I think it is best to hold off for a bit
from waving my lightning rod at the sky.
If things clear up a bit, I will give it a shot. The weather is supposed to be
better tomorrow.
73,
Dave KB1PVH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:27:15 -0400
From: "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhammond@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4aac1231.47c1f10a.6666.fffff60e@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Reloading of the satellite continues.
From the front page of the AMSAT web page:
AO-51 is off the air while the software reload is in progress. We hope to have
it operational by the first of the week.
AO-51 Command team
73,
Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:46:06 -0500
From: "John P. Toscano" <tosca005@xx.xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: (Reporting web pages needing updates)
Cc: "'Amsat BB'" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4AAC169E.7020908@xx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Andrew Rich (Home) wrote:
> No I meant
>
> amsatwebchanges@xxxxx.xxx
>
> " I found this page is old and needs to be deleted"
>
> Many hands make light work
Andrew: I think that the following solution will help you accomplish
your goal...
At the bottom of many pages of the AMSAT web site is a link entitled:
"Report a bug on this page"
Click on the link, and a form pops up. The form is pre-filled with the
URL of the "offending" web page, i.e. the web page you were on at the
time you clicked on the link. Fill in the rest of the form and click on
the button labeled:
Submit Report
One of the questions on the form is "Issue Type", and the drop-down list
include numerous choices, such as:
-- malformed text
-- broken link
-- outdated information
-- misspelling
-- punctuation
and several others. You don't even have to start up your email client;
the form goes to the appropriate person when you click on the Submit button.
If the page with a problem does not have one of these links on it, you
could manually type in the following URL into your browser:
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/bugform.php
The only problem with this is you will have to manually fill in the line
on the form that specifies what web page is problematic. Of course,
before you change to this URL, use your mouse to highlight the current
URL (where the problem is located), hit Ctrl+C to copy the URL to the
Windows Clipboard, then go to the bugform page, mouse or tab to that
field, and hit Ctrl+V to paste in the URL. [My apologies in advance for
giving you Windows-centric instructions if you are using a different OS
family.]
This seems even easier to me than an email alias to which you send
problem reports, but maybe that's just me...
But I clearly agree, a thousand pairs of eyes can find more errors and
omissions than a single pair of eyes. www.nlrs.org (which I maintain)
is comprised of over 4000 files, so I assume that www.amsat.org is much
bigger!
73 de W0JT
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:51:59 +1000
From: "Andrew Rich" <vk4tec@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>, "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhammond@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <1E3E3D647EFE4E4E899F5249C789AC3B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Vista probs huh
----------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Rich
Airways Technical Officer Grade 4
Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B
Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC
email: vk4tec@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
web: www.tech-software.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhammond@xxxxx.xxx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:27 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009
> Reloading of the satellite continues.
>
> From the front page of the AMSAT web page:
>
> AO-51 is off the air while the software reload is in progress. We hope to
> have it operational by the first of the week.
>
> AO-51 Command team
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH]
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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17:51:00
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:06:49 -0700
From: Bill Ress <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Mark Lunday <mlunday@xx.xx.xxx>
Cc: rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx 'Amsat BB' <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4AAC1B79.4070806@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comments and your offer to volunteer.
Why don't you contact me off line and we can talk about your specific
interests.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Mark Lunday wrote:
> Chiming in, after watching this go back and forth and feeling frustrated
> here.
>
> The issue here is about holding volunteers accountable as if they were paid
> staff. It's about expectations as well.
>
> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. What
> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, anyway) have
> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). None of the volunteers can provide
> that kind of support day-in and day-out. Holding volunteers to that
> standard is, in my opinion, a mistake.
>
> Having said that, what AMSAT volunteers have accomplished is SO FAR ABOVE
> what a normal volunteer organization achieves, that it BOGGLES THE MIND. I
> have been an AMSAT member for 18 months and active on satellites for about
> as long. To see what has been achieved by volunteers, spanning across
> geography, is AMAZING. The ability to ask ANY question about satellites in
> general and AMSAT in particular on this BB, and get an accurate response in
> a timely fashion is impressive. The collective intellectual capital and
> horsepower is deep and very valuable.
>
> And THAT'S the issue! We're so accustomed to outstanding performance on so
> many things with AMSAT that we start *expecting* above and beyond in all
> cases. That's not always realistic.
>
> I had a few 1:1 threads with some folks about this over the past few days,
> and I think we could address some of the problems if we had a paid position
> or two. I understand that this is being presented to the ARRL in the near
> future (additional funding support)
>
> Another side note: it sounds like more communication/interaction would help
> clarify some of these questions and concerns. Regular status reporting on
> progress for specific projects would help the community understand:
> (1) the progress
> (2) the risks
> (3) the level of effort provided by the volunteers
> (4) opportunities for additional input for addressing problems (leveraging
> some of that powerful intellectual capital and horsepower in our community).
>
>
> Meanwhile, as a project manager w/ PMP cert, Electrical Engineer, and a 35
> year ham with military background, I am raising my hand as a volunteer for
> helping with the planning of future AMSAT projects
>
> Mark Lunday
> WD4ELG
> Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb
> wd4elg@xxxx.xxx
> http://wd4elg.net
> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:09:47 -0500
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: <mlunday@xx.xx.xxx>, <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>, <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W241B6E30399C6831599B8AD6E60@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. What
> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, anyway) have
> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
Mark.
"level of performance".
No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to equal the
work through put of a paid employee...
For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can get into
the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is expected to have
three sermons a week ready to go...
But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the tools
being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into the pulpit in
the first place.
It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is on...but for
the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to meet a minimium level of
competency and demonstrate that.
No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links and then
correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit more "sophisticated"
but not all that much more...if for no other reason to make sure that the
methods that defeat the failure are well understood.
Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so complicated
that they missed their free launch.
I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad
management.
That reality seems to bite some folks
Robert WB5MZO
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:05:07 +0000
From: rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxxx
mlunday@xx.xx.xxxx bruninga@xxxx.xxxx "Bill Ress"
<bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx amsat bb <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<1167601682-1252796952-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-
1812505125-@xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
This is unadulterated bull shit made from whole cloth.
We have a free launch just as we have always have. The russians, as is their
right when they have command, decided with all the equipment modeled people
coming up to toss all orlan suits without notice to us (and they owed us
nothing).
I would be the very last person to say AMSAT is above all criticism but you
are clearly nor the spokesperson needed for the critics. Your notes are those
of a person who wants to fiddle while he burns Rome. What is needed in my not
so humble opinion is a spokesperson for the critics who is not perceived as
full of animus.
Bob
N4HY LM
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:09:47
To: <mlunday@xx.xx.xxx>; <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>; <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: <rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxx>; Amsat BB<amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
>
> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. What
> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, anyway) have
> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
Mark.
"level of performance".
No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to equal the
work through put of a paid employee...
For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can get into
the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is expected to have
three sermons a week ready to go...
But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the tools
being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into the pulpit in
the first place.
It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is on...but for
the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to meet a minimium level of
competency and demonstrate that.
No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links and then
correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit more "sophisticated"
but not all that much more...if for no other reason to make sure that the
methods that defeat the failure are well understood.
Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so complicated
that they missed their free launch.
I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad
management.
That reality seems to bite some folks
Robert WB5MZO
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:21:43 -0700
From: Dale Hershberger <daleh@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, amsat bbs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat bbs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4AAC1EF7.7070307@xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Rocky Jones wrote:
>
>
>
>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. What
>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, anyway)
have
>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
>>
>
> Mark.
>
> "level of performance".
>
> No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to equal the
work through put of a paid employee...
>
> For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can get into
the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is expected to have
three sermons a week ready to go...
>
> But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the tools
being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into the pulpit in
the first place.
>
> It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who
professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is on...but for
the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to meet a minimium level of
competency and demonstrate that.
>
> No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
>
> Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links and
then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit more
"sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other reason to make
sure that the methods that defeat the failure are well understood.
>
> Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so
complicated that they missed their free launch.
>
> I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad
management.
>
> That reality seems to bite some folks
>
> Robert WB5MZO
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
I really want to reply in good faith. It is very difficult in light of
the nature the tone of the way this thread is going. I am a member of
AMSAT and
proud of it. The organization is made up of volunteers.....Read
Volunteers! Things will go wrong.. When we have problems we look for
the weak points and focus
on the corrections that can be made.
What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the
Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF.
If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal
directly with them.
The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then
degrading or demeaning the volunteer and contributing members of AMSAT.
We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good
information to contribute to all. I just am really disappointed
to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where it
turns others off.
I do not expect a reply to this. I just wanted to express my opinion
Dale - KL7XJ
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:17:45 -0500
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: <daleh@xxxxxx.xxx>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W58B6A2252EABA4D1398E82D6E50@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or
managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the
Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF.
If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal
directly with them.
The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then
degrading or demeaning the volunteer and contributing members of AMSAT.
We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good
information to contribute to all. I just am really disappointed
to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where it
turns others off.
I do not expect a reply to this. I just wanted to express my opinion
Dale - KL7XJ
Dale. Pointing out errors in performance that are consistent is not
bashing...and it doesnt matter if they are volunteers or paid staff.
If they cannot deal with responsible criticism, and oddly enough no one has
refuted the statement I made that 1) they missed a launch date and 2) in large
measure because they bit off to large a project...
instead all one gets is "wow I am upset because you are pointing out flaws in
my performance, I am a volunteer I work 16-18 hours a day and wow this is
space".
No one is calling them stupid, indeed the only people who have blown their
corks are those who dont have answers to reasonable questions.
Robert WB5MZO
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:12:41 +0000
From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <4AAC5519.0@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
It amazes me that this group does not have an owner/moderator/administrator
to stop/delete/kill all this worthless
bitching.
Rocky Jones wrote:
>
>
>
>
> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or
> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:15:17 -0400
From: Kevin Smith <kevin.j.smith@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <69F07AEC-DA3D-43E9-B5C9-49DE5AFB8C6D@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Failing that can we at least stop feeding this troll.
Kevin Smith
N3HKQ
On Sep 12, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <nigel@xxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
> It amazes me that this group does not have an owner/moderator/
> administrator to stop/delete/kill all this worthless
> bitching.
>
> Rocky Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or
>> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the
> author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:41:32 -0500
From: Rocky Jones <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: <rwmcgwier@xxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb-bounces@xxxxx.xxx>,
<mlunday@xx.xx.xxx>, <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>, <bill@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: rswart1@xxxxx.xx.xxxx Amsat BB <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <COL106-W355AA9617CBDC9609F8036D6E50@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We have a free launch just as we have always have. The russians, as is
their right when they have command, decided with all the equipment modeled
people coming up to toss all orlan suits without notice to us (and they owed
us nothing).
>
Bob. I am told by people at JSC that this is not an accurate statement.
Robert WB5MZO
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHE
INA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:19:04 +1000
From: "Andrew Rich" <vk4tec@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
To: "Dale Hershberger" <daleh@xxxxxx.xxx>, "Rocky Jones"
<orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>, "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat bbs <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
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CMS - kewl
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Andrew Rich
Airways Technical Officer Grade 4
Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B
Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC
email: vk4tec@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx
web: www.tech-software.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Hershberger" <daleh@xxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Rocky Jones" <orbitjet@xxxxxxx.xxx>; "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered
> Rocky Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off.
>>> What
>>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, anyway)
>>> have
>>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by
>>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that
>>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO).
>>>
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> "level of performance".
>>
>> No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to equal
>> the work through put of a paid employee...
>>
>> For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can get
>> into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is expected
>> to have three sermons a week ready to go...
>>
>> But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the tools
>> being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into the pulpit
>> in the first place.
>>
>> It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who
>> professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is on...but
>> for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to meet a minimium
>> level of competency and demonstrate that.
>>
>> No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure.
>>
>> Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links and
>> then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit more
>> "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other reason to
>> make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are well understood.
>>
>> Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so
>> complicated that they missed their free launch.
>>
>> I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad
>> management.
>>
>> That reality seems to bite some folks
>>
>> Robert WB5MZO
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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>>
>>
> I really want to reply in good faith. It is very difficult in light of
> the nature the tone of the way this thread is going. I am a member of
> AMSAT and
> proud of it. The organization is made up of volunteers.....Read
> Volunteers! Things will go wrong.. When we have problems we look for
> the weak points and focus
> on the corrections that can be made.
>
> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or
> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the
> Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF.
>
> If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal
> directly with them.
> The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then
> degrading or demeaning the volunteer and contributing members of AMSAT.
> We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good
> information to contribute to all. I just am really disappointed
> to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where it
> turns others off.
>
> I do not expect a reply to this. I just wanted to express my opinion
>
> Dale - KL7XJ
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 464
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