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CX2SA > SATDIG 10.09.09 01:40l 591 Lines 20574 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Help sought - amateur satellite service vs D-star
(Tony Langdon)
2. TS2000 Bird (Danny Casier)
3. Re: Help sought - amateur satellite service vs D-star
(Geert Jan de Groot)
4. Travel from Washington to Baltimore for the Symposium (Jim Heck)
5. Re: Rigblaster TNC? (Alan P. Biddle)
6. Re: Rigblaster TNC? (Bruce Robertson)
7. Re: broken links (Joseph Armbruster)
8. Re: TS2000 Bird (Sebastian)
9. Re: TS2000 Bird (Bruce Robertson)
10. MediaWiki Trial (John Wright)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:39:20 +1000
From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Help sought - amateur satellite service vs
D-star
To: Geert Jan de Groot <pe1hzg@xxxxxx.xx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <4aa74da2.9753f10a.2c6e.036a@xx.xxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 07:24 AM 9/9/2009, Geert Jan de Groot wrote:
>Background
>In the Netherlands, 436-440 MHz is secondary to the amateur
>and amateur sat service. The folk experimenting with D-star
>on 70cms use a fairly large shift of 9.4 Mhz, resulting in
>a typical setup of 430.400-430.600 in and 439.800-440.000 out.
>Unattended stations (like D-star repeaters) do require a special
>license here.
OK, so what do FM repeater owners do? Asking that, to see if there's
any other places the D-STAR systems can be put. Over here, D-STAR
repeater allocations are in the same parts of the bands as FM ones.
>Recently..
>The D-star community, having fear of not being able to use their equipment,
>is now proposing to use a shift of 7.4 MHz shift: input ~430.400-430.600,
>output 437.800-438.000.
>The output obviously collides with the amateur radio satellite service,
>but the proposal does not mention this at all, nor does it mention
>any remedy for this interference, which the amateur radio service
>would inflict on itself, on a worldwide (at least European) scale.
This could create significant QRM across Europe, as any satellite
with an input on those frequencies and within range of an operating
D-STAR system would suffer QRM. Satellites with downlinks in this
range would be unusable within the coverage area of a D-STAR system
on the same frequency, though in a lot of cases, Doppler shift would
allow at least some of the pass to be worked.
>I believe this plan is very poorly thought-out and should be
>rejected and complained upon on an International scale.
I'm not sure what can be done about the DGPS issue, given the
relative status of amateur radio and commercial interests in most
countries, but the issue of allocating repeater outputs in a
satellite subband is something that goes beyond national borders,
especially in Europe, where many countries are very small.
73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:43:25 +0200
From: "Danny Casier" <Danny.casier@xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] TS2000 Bird
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <1B11F2EFCC494DAFB66D2D66F38C8814@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
He om's;
Is there a mod or fix to remove that bad bird on 436800 on my TS2000?
73
Dan
ON5UE
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:06:16 +0200
From: Geert Jan de Groot <pe1hzg@xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Help sought - amateur satellite service vs
D-star
To: Tony Langdon <vk3jed@xxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20090909100616.DB4ABFC77@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xx>
[Apologies as it's slightly off-topic, I do my best]
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:39:20 +1000 Tony Langdon wrote:
> >The folk experimenting with D-star
> >on 70cms use a fairly large shift of 9.4 Mhz, resulting in
> >a typical setup of 430.400-430.600 in and 439.800-440.000 out.
> >Unattended stations (like D-star repeaters) do require a special
> >license here.
> OK, so what do FM repeater owners do? Asking that, to see if there's
> any other places the D-STAR systems can be put. Over here, D-STAR
> repeater allocations are in the same parts of the bands as FM ones.
Good question, long and complex answer. Briefly, (voice) repeater pairs
are allocated geographically. So, there is one slot (but only one slot)
per area. If there are multiple groups who want to build a repeater,
then the single license would alternate between these two groups
every three years.
On 70cm, voice uses 1.6 MHz shift down. The repeater I built (PI2EHV)
does 431.700 in, 430.100 out.
D-star is currently considered "digital/packet" for which the
9.4 MHz shift pairs are set up. And the output collides with
the newly "allocated" DGPS users. Hence, no new licenses are issued,
and the D-star folk are looking for a new place.
Which is all nice and well, but the "new place" SHOULD NOT
be in the sat band for all the reasons you mention,
and I believe they should be told.
I've repeatedly asked why they are so hang up on large shifts
(causing them to need to take this extreme measure), but I get
no answer. To me, the difference between GMSK and NBFM is small,
and if 1.6 MHz shift can be made to work for NBFM, it can be made
to work for GMSK.
And, obviously, a smaller shift gives much more flexability to
(potentially) find a good spot. [that is, if we would decide to
accomedate the illegal allocation for DGPS, which I don't think
we should, but that's another matter].
Anyway, the current proposal would hurt the amateur sat service,
*as well* as negating a careful allocation process the amateur
radio community has built for tens of years.
While the proper allocation of this mode is beyond the scope of
the AMSAT community, the current, improper proposal *is* within
scope, and I hope people will raise their voice on this.
Thanks,
Geert Jan PE1HZG
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:27:27 +0100
From: "Jim Heck" <jimlist@xxxxxx.xx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Travel from Washington to Baltimore for the
Symposium
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <OLECJJCJBEHDCCHICKFFMEGEGHAA.jimlist@xxxxxx.xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi Folks,
I had lots of answers to my previous post - this is just to say a big thank
you to
all who responded - too many to reply individually!
It does seem a case of you pays your maoney and takes your choice (ie the
more
you pay the more convenient/faster the journey is!)
Again, many thanks to all who responded! I'm really looking forward to the
Symposium!
73 Jim G3WGM
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 07:20:00 -0500
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Rigblaster TNC?
To: "'John'" <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>, <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <87F5CFF8B2EA4975BCE37A23CB0434F9@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John,
A rigblaster is an interface only, but can be used with the correct software
as a TNC for most digital modes. I use MixW which emulates a basic TNC,
including a KISS mode output which works with all the programs I have tried
which expect to see a KISS TNC. There is another program, Packet Engine
Pro, which works well as long as you only want the basic packet modes.
There is also a freeware version.
Note that while MixW will work at 9600 baud, the rigblaster will probably
not. The isolation transformers found in all good interfaces will not pass
the range of frequencies needed at 9600 baud and up. In principle you could
build an interface that would word, but all those who have reported success
using MixW or similar at 9600 baud go directly from the sound card to the
rig.
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:55:53 -0300
From: Bruce Robertson <ve9qrp@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Rigblaster TNC?
To: APBIDDLE@xxxxxxx.xxx
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<49657a760909090555g4dfa3344v95149b01900348d2@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Alan P. Biddle<APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> John,
>
> A rigblaster is an interface only, but can be used with the correct software
> as a TNC for most digital modes. ?I use MixW which emulates a basic TNC,
> including a KISS mode output which works with all the programs I have tried
> which expect to see a KISS TNC. ?There is another program, Packet Engine
> Pro, which works well as long as you only want the basic packet modes.
> There is also a freeware version.
>
> Note that while MixW will work at 9600 baud, the rigblaster will probably
> not. ?The isolation transformers found in all good interfaces will not pass
> the range of frequencies needed at 9600 baud and up. ?In principle you could
> build an interface that would word, but all those who have reported success
> using MixW or similar at 9600 baud go directly from the sound card to the
> rig.
>
> Alan
> WA4SCA
I concur with Alan, but I also note that this summer I was able to get
MixW to decode 9600 baud from my TS-2000 using a Signalink 1+ as a
sound card interface. I'd tried this on-and-off over the past year and
a half and was surprised to see it work. (Folks may wonder why I went
the soundcard route when the TS-2000 has a 9600 modem built in. This
is because you cannot use the serial port on the TS-2000 to act as a
TNC and for rig control. To automate my station, I require rig control
and therefore software data decoding.)
73, Bruce
VE9QRP
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:42:41 -0400
From: Joseph Armbruster <josepharmbruster@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Cc: Tim - N3TL <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<938f42d70909090742q2e1024b8r9bd8c872065369be@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
After reading this thread, I figured it'd be worthwhile to set up a
mediawiki instance to let people get familiar with it. I set one up last
night on a node for my own enlightenment. The configuration is not "the
best" by any means. For those interested in timeframe, it took thirty
minutes to configure this instance from a clean arch linux installation. If
you are interested in poking around in the environment to see what it feel
like, go ahead, that's why I set it up. I disabled email registration, so
anyone can just create an account and get a feel for creating pages /
editing / preferences / etc... Tonight, i'm going to hack at creating my
own skin, since it would just be cool :-) I added the amsat logo to the
main page for testing, I hope this doesn't violate any copyright rules....
If it does, hollar and i'll remove it.
For the record, I have nothing to do with Amsat right now, outside of being
a first time member this year. I also don't want anyone to think that i'm
pushing for media wiki or anything of the sort. I just like the idea of
having a wiki. I read the email thread and figured it'd be worthwhile to
set an instance up so Amsat folk could get familiar with it. I have managed
two other wiki systems on my own, trac / moinmoin. MediaWiki has quite a
bit to offer and is reasonably easy to configure.
Here's a link to the playground:
http://71.43.22.149/
Let me know if you have any comments or questions (or if you get any weird
behavior).
Joseph Armbruster, KJ4JIO
www.joevial.com
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Alan VE4YZ <ve4yz@xxx.xxx> wrote:
> Thanks for your comments Tim. I'm accumulating some responses off-list in
> addition to what y'all can read here. I don't want to go into solution
> mode
> at this early stage. Your concern is valid and worst case is that the
> secure web e-commerce that AMSAT is now comfortable with would be linked to
> from any new platform.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Tim - N3TL [mailto:n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
> Sent: September 8, 2009 7:01 PM
> To: Alan VE4YZ; amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
>
>
> Alan and all,
>
> Here's my 2 cents' worth - coming from someone who admittedly knows very
> little about the tools, skills and resources necessary to develop and
> maintain a Web site.
>
> Alan, you write: "It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition
> to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site."
>
> How does the AMSAT store fit into this, and is it possible to "mix" a
> wiki-style "access for all" site with one that will include areas for the
> entry and transfer of secure, private information (e.g., credit card
> information for purchases)?
>
> I ask this because I don't know of another major nonprofit that uses a
> wiki-style site because of the need to incorporate an ecommerce site as
> part
> of the overall Web presence.
>
> My initial reaction to a Wiki approach is - no - for those reasons.
>
> I hope someone can provide more information here to me and everyone who
> reads the BB that might help mitigate my concerns. I further hope someone
> who is truly interested in mitigating the issues seemingly so many here
> have
> with the AMSAT Web site will attend the Board meeting in October to
> continue
> this kind of dialogue with the Board.
>
> 73 to all,
>
> Tim - N3TL
> Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Alan VE4YZ <ve4yz@xxx.xxx>
> To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 7:38:30 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
>
>
> IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
>
> If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4
> of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer
> a
> Wiki on another server.
>
> We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now.
> Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If
> the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT
> server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all
> the
> stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
>
> The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be
> the
> registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy
> what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting
> company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one
> year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
>
> We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site
> that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of
> any former code whacker to modify or update.
>
> We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of
> old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be
> available for updating a la Wiki.
>
> I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but
> I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who
> might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as
> choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
>
> That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
>
> 73, Alan VE4YZ
> EN19kv
> AMSAT LM 2352
> http://www.wincube.ca
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner <glasbrenner@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles
> and
> bring them up to date?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:54:32 -0400
From: Sebastian <w4as@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: TS2000 Bird
To: AMSAT BB <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <9C528F76-71C6-4E1B-8046-FAB1A391A02D@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Unfortunately, no. Kenwood even admits this by mentioning it in the
rig's manual.
73 de W4AS
Sebastian
On Sep 9, 2009, at 2:43 AM, Danny Casier wrote:
> He om's;
>
>
>
> Is there a mod or fix to remove that bad bird on 436800 on my TS2000?
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Dan
>
> ON5UE
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:45:35 -0300
From: Bruce Robertson <ve9qrp@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: TS2000 Bird
To: Sebastian <w4as@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: AMSAT BB <AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<49657a760909090845y4e436be6h27a5febdc235e661@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
You can ever-so-slightly mitigate its effect by a) keeping the antenna
away from the transmitter (because it will pick up the birdie as a
transmitted signal!); b) doing lots of preamping before the rig; c)
using the narrow FM mode on receive. But it's still nasty.
73, Bruce
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Sebastian<w4as@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Unfortunately, no. ?Kenwood even admits this by mentioning it in the
> rig's manual.
>
> 73 de W4AS
> Sebastian
>
> On Sep 9, 2009, at 2:43 AM, Danny Casier wrote:
>
>> He om's;
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a mod or fix to remove that bad bird on 436800 on my TS2000?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ON5UE
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:46:17 +0100
From: John Wright <ham@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] MediaWiki Trial
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <0MKt72-1MlSBZ19oc-000DHn@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 15:42 09/09/2009, you wrote:
>After reading this thread, I figured it'd be worthwhile to set up a
>mediawiki instance to let people get familiar with it. I set one up last
>night on a node for my own enlightenment. The configuration is not "the
>best" by any means. For those interested in timeframe, it took thirty
>minutes to configure this instance from a clean arch linux installation. If
>you are interested in poking around in the environment to see what it feel
>like, go ahead, that's why I set it up. I disabled email registration, so
>anyone can just create an account and get a feel for creating pages /
>editing / preferences / etc... Tonight, i'm going to hack at creating my
>own skin, since it would just be cool :-) I added the amsat logo to the
>main page for testing, I hope this doesn't violate any copyright rules....
>If it does, hollar and i'll remove it.
>
>For the record, I have nothing to do with Amsat right now, outside of being
>a first time member this year. I also don't want anyone to think that i'm
>pushing for media wiki or anything of the sort. I just like the idea of
>having a wiki. I read the email thread and figured it'd be worthwhile to
>set an instance up so Amsat folk could get familiar with it. I have managed
>two other wiki systems on my own, trac / moinmoin. MediaWiki has quite a
>bit to offer and is reasonably easy to configure.
>
>Here's a link to the playground:
>
>http://71.43.22.149/
>
>Let me know if you have any comments or questions (or if you get any weird
>behavior).
Thought I'd start this as a new thread. Just been on the Wiki, I
think its a great idea. I added my comments in the discussion section
just to get a feel for it. I'm not an Amsat-NA member, but
non-the-less think I'm allowed to comment. I really hope this expands
and becomes as useful as Wikipedia itself! John G4DMF
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 456
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