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VE3WBZ > ALL 05.03.11 23:35l 213 Lines 10320 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 21102_VA3BAL
Read: GUEST
Subj: RE: Comments of Dave WB4IUY
Path: IZ3LSV<IK6ZDE<VE3UIL<VA3BAL
Sent: 110305/2126Z @:VA3BAL.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM #:21102 [Ballantrae] $:21102_VA3B
From: VE3WBZ@VA3BAL.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM
To : ALL@WW
TO: ALL @WW
FR: VE3WBZ
DT: Saturday, March 5th.,2011 @1520hrs EST <JPST>
Hello Dave WB4IUY, and all who have read the posting to ALL @WW
about the Gentleman's agreement on "windows" for various modes
or activities.
I always thought Dave, that along with "Band plans" on what
mode can be used from here to there, with a segment of the
Amateur Radio Service, this idea was firmly in place.
<< Quoting WB4IUY to ALL @WW >>
> From : WB4IUY To : ALL @WW
> Type/Status : B$ Date/Time : 30-Oct 00:00
> Bid : 1357_W4RAL Message # : 86517
> Title : Lack of respect for "Windows" on different bands...
>
> From: WB4IUY@W4RAL.#RTP.NC.USA.NOAM
> To : ALL@WW
>
> There are gentleman's agreements and suggestions by the ARRL
> for various "windows" to be used by certain modes or activities.
> These include things like the "DX Window" found on many bands,
> call frequencies like 50.125 on 6m, and mode windows like the
> PSK31 window and the AM window. Many of these "windows" have been
> around for decades and are well documented in practically every
> amateur radio publication and all across the internet.
Frankly speaking Dave., This was never discussed in the HAM radio
club I was "forced' to join, just to attend the class, where I could
take the test...My "frosh time" was but only a scratch of the surface
of the real state of Ham Radio...In my area... I really hope better
in others. Example given by you, is the first time I ever heard
of it.
Are they really well documented? I doubt it, as for a TV event
I covered for cable which led me into Ham Radio, nothing was mentioned
like this, nor when I search any nets....getting info was like
extracting a tooth.
> To preface this...I collect vintage Amateur Radio gear. There are
> lots of people like me, who collect older amateur radio equipment,
> restore it, and enjoy operating it on occassion. Many of these
> old rigs are crystal controlled and have been locked to these
> frequencies for decades, especially since these frequencies were
> widely known as the frequencies to operate AM on. Most of these
> rigs operate on AM.
I would agree with you, seeing in the basement in Canada, the early
AM transmitter of a ham who in 1917 had a callsign "XHC" I love
what you do...really....those old AM sets gave great listening to
SWL's of the day. The letters and material attests to these days
and also in the early time of SSB, the complainers and jammers of
AM'ers trying to kill SSB. One character and his trnsmissions
and poetic sayings were classical never lived long enough to see
SSB takeover and SWL's not listening < their sets were not ready for SSB>
as he died on his tower.
Yes I remember the big crystal plugged into the transmitter and what
a shock there on a visit for tea....when the clock turned over on the
thing, and I realized it was still live, even though not connected
as the Willow Tree long time ago removed his HF activities as well he
loved AM...like you and others.
I must say...I enjoyed listening to you guys....when I found you on
160 or 80. It was a listening pleasure.... and my memorys mixed
with the activities of "XHC" circa 1917 ... yes a spark gapper
and wow that machine he had made a din and well I wanted to be farwa.
> The "AM Windows" have been around since before I became a ham in
> 1974. One such example of windows are the two frequencies
> 3.880 & 3.885 mhz in the 75 meter band. There are only a handful
> of such frequencies in the entire HF portion of our allotted amateur
> radio spectrum. AM has a typical bandwidth of at least 6 khz, and
> most of the older receivers were designed to accept this bandwidth
> for proper reception and reproduction of transmitted audio.
Agreed here too dave. That was then ....not now, and not with the
new thinkers that are now pushing Ham Radio to extermination.
Thank you for those frequencys... NOW I know...Never knew before.
> I'm always amazed at the number of people who tune either just
> outside of the window (or right smack in the middle of the
> window!) and operate SSB. Their arguements are often
> "I don't hear the AM'ers" or "I was here first and _they_ can move".
> I guess either they don't understand the design of their own receiver
> including it's more narrow passband and ability to null carriers
> from the oppsite sideband, don't understand that many of the AM
> Vintage rigs can't move to another frequency, or they simply just
> don't care where the window is.
This is common to most of them. I see this so well demonstrated
during a contest day. Rude is the bottomline and sums them up
so nicely. best thing I ever heard was a ham who dropped all the
gentlemanlike manners...OM and all that...and gave them a good
piece of his mind. They moved off....and no effect... a JERK is always
a JERK and they never change. Met them the first day I was forced
to jon the HAm radio Club local to me... ran into it when I got my
priveldge to use ham radio...and it is still there. I only lasted
a year at that club ... and well when it comes to them... a poor
adveretisement for Ham radio...
"SNOBS" fits them ...
> AM'ers, for the most part, stay in the windows to enjoy the company
> of other collectors, experimenters (many AM ops build and/or modify
> their own gear), and others with similar interests. There are lots
> of us...the numbers are quite large. There are publications,
> sinesses, and even entire hamfests dedicated to this facet of the
> ham radio hobby. We don't _HAVE_ to stay in these tiny slivers of
> spectrum called the AM Windows, but we choose to do so out of
> respect for the other modes scattered across the bands
> (among other reasons). We can operate anywhere those of you who
> operate SSB can operate...but we don't. We keep to ourselves and
> try to minimize our interference to others by operating in these
> widely known and universally understood "AM Windows".
Most people on HF today Dave....Have no clue when it comes to a
net with AM on it, or they really only know vintage as FT101s
or others...that can move with a VFO. They really have no idea
that some of the early radio transmitters were fixed...the rock
incerted and that was that ... NO can move...No matter what is
said to them.
I never know you had a large following. I only know Mike VE3FGU
in Keswick Ontario who is running AM and having a great time, but
when I visit he is with a VFO...so a modern vintage <g>.
YES..I see them at the hamfests...when I went ..my last one too
many years ago ...but then my interest is wanning...due to the
antice described by you on-air and other places.
> Imagine if all SSB operations were be herded into a few tiny slices
> of spectrum called "SSB Windows", while AM operations ran across
> the entire phone bands. Imagine if AM'ers decided to "take back"
> a fair amount of spectrum and began having AM contests, calling CQ,
> holding nets, etc on AM all across the phone bands with our wider
> signals. Now imagine if those of you who operate SSB actually
> behaved as most of us do and gave AM a little "elbow room" around
> the windows so your SSB signals (and many of them are quite wide
> as well!) didn't jam the few frequencies that we relegate our own
> selves to.
Agreed ..in the early days of SSB...yes it happened and the other way
as I described with that colourful character we'd hear up here.
> I started typing this on this Saturday morning while working
> (or rather, trying to) the AM Military net on 3.885. A group of
> hams ithe southeast US constantly obliterates operations on
> 3.885 Am by operating on 3.888 LSB. Their lower sidebands splatter
> all the way down to below 3.880. One of the guys is regularly
> heard on a rants that he will jam AM anytime and anywhere he hears
> it, simply because _he_ doesn't like it. This happens all the time,
> and is a perfect example of what this blog is about: People who
> either don't know or don't care how their operations in and around
> the windows impacts a much larger group of people who are operating
> in a manner as to minimize their impact on everyone else.
Agreed again, and much food for thought Dave.
> Please folks...stay out of and away from (by few khz) the AM windows
> with your SSB signals, so AM'ers can also enjoy their favorite part
> this awesome hobby!
>
> Dave WB4IUY
> www.WB4IUY.net
> wb4iuy@wb4iuy.#rtp.nc.usa.noam
>
> [End of Message #86517 from WB4IUY]
The problem "XHC" gave in the 1970s when I knew him , until he died
in 1981, was the slide he saw in Ham Radio. From fun and comradely
it sank to clubs, interest and the faternity spit into faction groups
only interested in their mode of operation....who care about the others.
This was 1970s when he told me this ... as he showed me letters and QSL
cards and the logbook < AM broadcasting Ham station noted there too >
and yes I would agree you comments hint of this... so this packet was
a firm support of what I had heard first hand.
I have no clue, where to start to reverse the damage. The club here
is still stuck on how important they are to the community... they
beleive their own stuff....The schools around here, well they have
removed the school ham radio and replaced it with a state of the art
computer lab, and Internet...so now we are non-payment for licenses
and considered a quaint hobby for the nurseing home....where most
are banned.... the route is the same of the dinosaur...and thats
why I am not buying anything else, and even adjusted my hobby time
for other things, which proves a point...as even back in the 1960s
I was out helping senior hams get antennas up for HF ...winter or summer
as that was the way things were done... NOT now.
I hope you will stay on Paket...I hope to read my answer to your
posting and I hope others. Perhaps too, since the postings here
make it to the Internet...your views will get there and read by
others...and I wish you luck.
If I ever get on HF .... or find a volunteer to put my HF wires
up <only need a crossbar for my HF wires to be pulled up by pulley>
I'll listen for you on AM ... and use the AM mode of my modern rad-i-o.
Thanks for your posting Dave...keep them coming;
73 Pete VE3WBZ
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