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VE3UIL > PACKET 30.06.10 23:19l 230 Lines 10418 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 57829_VE3UIL
Read: GUEST
Subj: Re: A Reply ALL@CANADA to VE2PKT
Path: IZ3LSV<IK2XDE<DB0RES<DK0WUE<IK6ZDE<VE2PKT<VE3UIL
Sent: 100630/2111Z 57829@VE3UIL.#EON.ON.CAN.NOAM BPQ1.0.4
Hi Peter et al
Glad to see there is still chatting going on here in packet land.
Routing of Bulletins is a weird and mystical thing, and at best random.
Look at the routing that your reply to Jean took to get to me here on my BPQ
BBS. (I run both FBB and BPQBBS).
Routing of bulletins is based on the protocol establised by W0RLI. Each BBS
on the network at various times (timing based on the interval chosen by the
SYSOP) initiates a FWD session with one of its FWD partners. BBS A sends a
lists of Bulletins it has and asks if BBS B wants them. BBS B then looks at
the list and says YES or NO depending on a) whether it has already received
it, (it might have already received it from another system earlier) or b)
the type of bulletin is in its REJECT list. (Not all systems use REJECT
lists).
So depending on the timing you can see, bulletins can be routed a variety of
ways. Also not all BBS SYSOP route their bulletins the same way. For
example Bulletins from Europe might reach me from ON4HU in Belgium, but Mike
N9PMO does not have FWD with ON4HU. So Mike might get his European
Bulletins via my BBS. Then again he might not because he has different
European partners than I have.
In addition some SYSOPS and bulletin authors object to this somewhat random
routing of messages because if a BBS SYSOP is FWD and receiving any and all
Bulletins (regardless of destination) a bulletin sent to @GBR might end up
being FWD around the world. Some authors have in the past have criticized
SYSOPS for doing this and asked us to restrict FWD of messages outside our
region. (IMHO this tends to restrict or limit the distribution of
bulletins, but if some people want it that way, well so be it.)
On the other hand John G8BPQ the author of a Packet NODE software used by
many has also developed a new BBS software. This new BBS software routes
messages based soley on the geographical address. Bulletins sent to @WW go
everywhere, bulletins sent to @GBR only go to Great Britain etc.
This works quite nicely, except that some people have taken to developing
their own "geographical" names like @FRANCA @USBBS @LATNET and so on. These
do not fall into the recognized HIERARCHICAL address names. However each
BPQ BBS SYSOP has the option to take messages to some of these non-standard
addresses and assign them to a legitimate address. For example @FRANCA
might be routed to @FRA or @LATNET migh be routed to @BRA (but this creates
a problem for ROSA.) However all in all I think John's system has some
merit and is working out fairly well. There are still some shortcomings but
John is still working on this software, which is more than can be said about
the other BSS software systems out there.
All of this said, this applies only to the Bulletins. Private packet
messages (SP) are routed specifically as dictated by each sysop. For
example if you sent a SP to me, it SHOULD get routed from VE3BAL to me
directly since we have FWD established between us. Where it gets compicated
is where a direct link between BBS does not exist and it relies on each BBS
SYSOP to have proper FWD links establised. This may not be the case, and
your SP message could disappear into Cyberspace, never to be seen again.
John G8BPQs new BBS software nicely addresses this and the software
automatically routes messages based on the Hierchical address only. Problem
is not every BBS SYSOP uses the G8BPQ software.
As to your comments concerning WINLINK, I tend to agree. Winlink being
based soley on the Internet is surely prone to failure in an emergency.
Where as the packet network is a mixture of both Internet and RF. Surely
that is the way things should run if you want the network to be robust. I
applaud packet system operators that use VHF and RF links (including PACTOR
WinMOR etc) as part of our Packet Network .
By the way Peter I have just added a link with a new BBS operator Gil VE3BHA
in Fergusons Lake near Renfrew, ON. (Upper Ottawa Valley just west of
Ottawa.). In addition Gil's BBS links to VE3STP a nearby packet digi which
provides good RF coverage of the area. We are also trying to get VE3STP
linked to VE3NRR a packet digi up near Pettawawa. So the packet network is
still growing.
Mike - VE3UIL
Smiths Falls, ON
<VE3WBZ> wrote in message news:57321_VA3BAL...
> R:100626/0314Z 15054@N9PMO.#N9PMO.SEWI.WI.USA.NOAM BPQ1.0.4
> R:100626/0305Z 50721@N9PMO.#SEWI.WI.USA.NOAM [Racine, WI] FBB7.00i
> R:100626/0303Z 34400@VE9MPF.#MCTN.NB.CAN.NOAM [Moncton, CAN] FBB7.00i
> R:100626/0302Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:2695 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:57321_VA3BAL
> R:100626/0302Z 27253@VE3UIL.#EON.ON.CAN.NOAM [Smiths Falls,] FBB7.00i
> R:100626/0254Z @:VA3BAL.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM #:57321 [Ballantrae]
> $:57321_VA3BAL
>
> From: VE3WBZ@VA3BAL.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM
> To : PACKET@WW
>
> TO: ALL @CANADA
> FR: VE3WBZ@VA3BAL.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM
>
> DT: Friday,June 25th.,2010 @ 2147hrs EST
>
> << Quoting VE2PKT to ALL@CANADA >>
>
>> From : VE2PKT To : ALL @CANADA
>> Type/Status : BX Date/Time : 23-May 23:06
>> Bid : 26324_VE2GPQ Message # : 57252
>> Title : Packet still alive in Canada???
>
> Hello Jean VE2PKT and I am glad to take this opportunity to again
> reply to your requests, as others in Quebec, as well here in
> Ontario.
>
> First look at the path taken from your BBS in Quebec, the
> route to VA3BAL BBS just north of Toronto. All the way
> to Europe, then west to France and to South America before
> getting here to VA3BAL ... No route thru Quebec to Ontario
> and perhaps via VE3UIL in Smith Falls or others unknown to
> me. I wonder too if the other Sysop in Quebec
> Gervais ..oops sorry Gervais...I forgot your call.
>
>> Path: !CX4AE!F1FBB!ON0BEL!VE2GPQ!
>>
>> From: VE2PKT@VE2GPQ.#QBC.QC.CAN.NOAM
>> To : ALL@CANADA
>
> Anyway, Jean and Gervais and anyone who cares, my Packet
> Address is VE3WBZ#VA#BAL.#SCON.ON.CAN.NOAM and my email
> address is ve3wbz@hotmail.com if we want to somehow
> get "clubs" and hams interested...time to go is NOW.
>
>> If you read this and live in Canada, could you please replie?
>> I am just wondering if packlet still alive in Canada.
>> I did not see too many bulletins adress to @canada in the
>> past few months.
>>
>> Is having a BBS running mean something for Canadian these days?
>> That will depend of how many replies I'll get.
>>
>> 73 de Jean, VE2PKT
>> Sysop of VE2GPQ BBS and more.
>>
>> [End of Message #57252 from VE2PKT]
>
> You bet your sweet booties Jean I will reply, and I hope
> others too do the same! It is serious, and slipping down
> the pipes until the only thing left will be stand alones
> offering just receiving via the Internet, and that is not
> Ham Radio! In between NOTHING .... nothing to link
> to via VHF or UHF or HF for packet .... all done joyiously
> via INTERNET. They are not really HAMs... only presto
> hams, and I have been listening to them quite a few
> years earlier....everytime on a club repeater talking
> nothing but Computers and Internet and how to get Ham
> Radio on the Internet.....Like Why buy a RADIO?
>
> All in the last few years, the same club citing no users
> but me.. I was the only user on their BBS...they were
> closing it ... but replaced it with some INTERNET
> system .... sad state. Next came this Winlink thing
> and noting but in one case which is sickening two
> calls belonging to the same ham...signing on for
> Internet messages and signing off...all automated.
> Oh Joy ... One of his licences sending the other
> a message or checking every 5 to 10 minutes...sick.
>
> The latest craze of Packet APRES is now Winlink
> and a whole load of Emergency Presto-I'll save you
> stations .... and thats why you never hear or
> see them posting messages to the BBS...as they
> mostlikely don't know they exist...or the Internet
> is better then the Radio BBS...and use of RADIOS.
>
> Jean ... I would not blame you and others for
> pulling the plug for all time on Packet and letting
> it die. Our Presto-Emergency Hammaroos and their
> total love of Internet is doing that so nicely
> as the club that promotes and sponsors and pushes
> it. Another reason I have nothing to do with the
> local Hammie Ambulance Chasers...as I call them.
>
> Them might as well do Internet fulltime. If they
> distroy Packet...they can only help put that nail
> in the packet coffin.
>
> I am sure you and I have Internet...I do...yet
> I enjoy the HF...whenever I get the HF wires back
> up ....and I enjoy 2meters repeaters and 146.520
> simplex talking to folks via RADIO ...same as packet
> and BBSes and exchanging ideas via RADIO..Packet RADIO
> for Jean and readers...it is the reason for the hobby.
> RADIO... Packet radio...linking...and I have my
> TNC set to digi to allow anyone hearing it to digi
> thru me to areas south of me...going into Toronto.
> YES I even have hams in Toronto leaving packet mail
> on my Mailbox.
>
> My TNC is an AEA PL900 two port...I can run HF and VHF
> together and apparently... they tell me HF can link
> to the other port for feeding a BBS...but I have never
> tried it or been approached by anyone to set it up
> using my HF radio which has the connections for the
> TNC...so ?????? ... When it comes to Canada..I see
> a few VEs posting....A VE4 posting a swapnet...and
> a VE9 or VE1 posting WX and a VE3 posting only local
> stuff...so there is few traffic then 5 years ago
> and dropping.
>
> The increase as I repeat is Winlink.org systems
> with auto this and that ...no waiting for those
> of us....humans...using radio to go to BBSes
> and read from others and post back...via the
> BBS system....which for the life of me I can
> not understand why they and the clubs DO NOT
> support or foster to help keep the hobby alive?
>
> INTERNET and Ham Radio run in my home on separate
> computers. I love the speed etc on Internet...
> but I love ham radio... the TNC and the radio I
> use for packet...using just 5watts to get to
> the station I need to connect to.
>
> Sorry Jean...I have said enough. I am frustrated
> with it, and I will never blame you or others
> if you do pull the plug on packet...as well
> your BBS. Why waste your time? I do appreciate
> what you have done...I see your call all the time
> in routes...I appreciate it sir.
>
> 73 Peter VE3WBZ
>
>
>
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